Mafia 86: Accidents Happen... - Game Thread

[brainbomb]

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

[ghug]

I was speculating on them being faked/forced not that they were satirical

They have to be. He's doing a bit.

I don't think there's much to glean from it yet, but we might as well be clear-eyed about it.

I want you to elaborate on the bolded, ghug

What he's doing is a fabrication. So is what he did last game. So is what a lot of people do. I like this one specifically because it gives us a lot to work with, but it's also imaginable that he'd hide behind it or that he'd be mistakenly scumread for being fake. I don't see either happening yet, but it's worthwhile to read his posts with that context in mind.

[ghug]

his thoughts to the GOD Qt are never satire or fake thoughts

Yeah, but I think his fake thoughts to the GT within the God Thread are satire. It's different.

To the GT


WTF?! Sweet thinks I can spew satire to just amuse the GMs for hours a day?! Like I’m an amateur clown?!


Fuck!


I really think sweet and I don’t get each other. And I really don’t get why. Maybe it’s an east coast/west coast thing? But the youngish parents with mathy backgrounds and academic orientations. But there’s something fucking off about him. Maybe we’ll figure it out this game.

You're youngish?

[BunnyGo]

I can't help but imagine heartthrob as a tub of vanilla ice cream in front of his computer.

This is not an insult, just a reflection on the fact that I've yet to glean anything from him and it has been like three games now.

Heart, maybe you should emulate Bunny here?

To the GT: is he calling me fat?

To the GT:


Want to break my silence so badly. DONT STEAL MY BIT!

[Frogsterking]

And I actually haven't read the setup.

Glad to be town this time?

Yeah; I had a bad stretch there.

You had a bad stretch where?

I think Town are the rescuers of the Emperor and Mafia is scum here.

You seem different, what's wrong with you?

Firing from the hip.

Hello, Fellow Townspeople.

Sus right out of the gate.

To the GT:

Froggys question about checking the +1 is quite weird after the stink several people made about me doing it last game.

He seems too sharp to have not noticed and remembered that. Seems like something he’d remember. Here it seems like something to mention to look like you’re hunting. Also, last game he DIDNT mention it. Sooooo different already.

I'm a fan of this development (Bunny sharing his innermost thoughts with the world instead of just the gods). Hope he doesn't fulfill the threat he made to quiet down

I am waiting for Bunny to dispense with the "To the GT" if he's going to continue dropping the inner workings on to all of us.

Do you believe Bunny, brainbomb and I are the scum team or are you just unhappy to see us?

[BunnyGo]

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

To the GT:

Excellent call out. Food’s opening was nowhere near as towny as last game.

Good on BB for not leaving that in the dustbin.

[BunnyGo]

Yeah, but I think his fake thoughts to the GT within the God Thread are satire. It's different.

To the GT


WTF?! Sweet thinks I can spew satire to just amuse the GMs for hours a day?! Like I’m an amateur clown?!


Fuck!


I really think sweet and I don’t get each other. And I really don’t get why. Maybe it’s an east coast/west coast thing? But the youngish parents with mathy backgrounds and academic orientations. But there’s something fucking off about him. Maybe we’ll figure it out this game.

You're youngish?

To the GT:


Hahaha. Slow clap. Easy nudge.


But for the record I’m younger than any two of you put together!

[sweetandcool]

I was speculating on them being faked/forced not that they were satirical

Okay, maybe forget what I said then, because we are just quibbling here.

I also identified a post that felt forged in the my vote for Bunny.

Which do you want to take as a stance
Defending bunny as satirical
Or accusing bunny for faking

You probably cant take both positions

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

[brainbomb]

Okay, maybe forget what I said then, because we are just quibbling here.

I also identified a post that felt forged in the my vote for Bunny.

Which do you want to take as a stance
Defending bunny as satirical
Or accusing bunny for faking

You probably cant take both positions

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

This is also called hedging.
Holding both sides of a stance as being valid in order to mask knowing too much information.

it is also possible to just not know. Maybe youre not scum with bunny. Maybe bunny is just bunny. In fact yea he probably is. Town. Yes maybe sweet is also town.



See.
What I did.

[Frogsterking]

Okay, maybe forget what I said then, because we are just quibbling here.

I also identified a post that felt forged in the my vote for Bunny.

Which do you want to take as a stance
Defending bunny as satirical
Or accusing bunny for faking

You probably cant take both positions

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

[sweetandcool]

his thoughts to the GOD Qt are never satire or fake thoughts

Yeah, but I think his fake thoughts to the GT within the God Thread are satire. It's different.

To the GT


WTF?! Sweet thinks I can spew satire to just amuse the GMs for hours a day?! Like I’m an amateur clown?!


Fuck!


I really think sweet and I don’t get each other. And I really don’t get why. Maybe it’s an east coast/west coast thing? But the youngish parents with mathy backgrounds and academic orientations. But there’s something fucking off about him. Maybe we’ll figure it out this game.

I'm really starting to think the problem is on your end.

One of your first posts about me identified me as someone who has a really high opinion of themselves and thinking they are really logically and smarter than others.

Basically you described me as a degenerate Math/CS person.

You were partially right in that I'm a mathematician, but that was about it.

Since then I've driven you crazy for coming across as arrogant/condescending at times, but since I wasn't that way last game it has been confusing you, I guess.

In reality, I just like being able to yell at strangers online since I have trouble expressing myself IRL. Of course, I also feel deep shame for it and that's why I'm trying to limit myself to merely being snarky at times.

[brainbomb]

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

To the GT:

Excellent call out. Food’s opening was nowhere near as towny as last game.

Good on BB for not leaving that in the dustbin.

this wouldve been fine except you changed the context to be meta based. My statement was rooted exclusively in what hes doing this game and I never referenced a past game to compare. Many players get turned off by meta. So I was deliberate in my scumread being based on that it struck me as something scum do regularly, spectate and weigh in on inconsequential topics to seem engaged

[brainbomb]

Oh also Jamie is town this game

Town so far
Ghug
jamie
Sweet
Frog
Hamilton

[sweetandcool]

Which do you want to take as a stance
Defending bunny as satirical
Or accusing bunny for faking

You probably cant take both positions

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

[Frogsterking]

Oh also Jamie is town this game

Town so far
Ghug
jamie
Sweet
Frog
Hamilton

When did you decide to start town reading Sweet and I?

I can. A judge has to weigh both sides of an argument. I want to judge as accurately as possible.

Some of Bunny's posts can be excused as satire. Some look suspiciously fake.

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

Is it possible that you decided to start scum reading them any earlier than that?

[brainbomb]

Oh also Jamie is town this game

Town so far
Ghug
jamie
Sweet
Frog
Hamilton

When did you decide to start town reading Sweet and I?

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

Is it possible that you decided to start scum reading them any earlier than that?

Around about five minutes ago when I summed it up in my mind that this is fine

[Frogsterking]

Oh also Jamie is town this game

Town so far
Ghug
jamie
Sweet
Frog
Hamilton

When did you decide to start town reading Sweet and I?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

Is it possible that you decided to start scum reading them any earlier than that?

Around about five minutes ago when I summed it up in my mind that this is fine

Is there anything important I should be asking you about your reads?

[sweetandcool]

Oh also Jamie is town this game

Town so far
Ghug
jamie
Sweet
Frog
Hamilton

When did you decide to start town reading Sweet and I?

When did you decide to start scum reading bunny, sweet?

From the post I quoted when I voted them.

Is it possible that you decided to start scum reading them any earlier than that?

No.

To be clear, I like the GT bit.

[brainbomb]

Gonna make a random guess pick that will probably just hurt me in the long run but vecna is scum this game.

[BunnyGo]

staying on food. Initially thought his opener post was something I see mafia do normally - weigh in on some irrelevant topic.

His posts did not move me into thinking hes town for any reason after that either

To the GT:

Excellent call out. Food’s opening was nowhere near as towny as last game.

Good on BB for not leaving that in the dustbin.

this wouldve been fine except you changed the context to be meta based. My statement was rooted exclusively in what hes doing this game and I never referenced a past game to compare. Many players get turned off by meta. So I was deliberate in my scumread being based on that it struck me as something scum do regularly, spectate and weigh in on inconsequential topics to seem engaged

To the GT:

I think brainbomb has an interesting idea of what a meta is. So let's examine.

One idea is that "meta game" is a series of strategies that are currently popular. They then become exploitable when they are too popular (a style of opening or alliance at diplomacy is a commonly referred to example).

One idea is that it is a style of strategies and style for a specific person.

One thing I learned from swordsman, is that in trying to learn how to read people, not to examine their specific tactics in gunboat, but instead to examine the level of yomi that they go to. He found that this was much harder for people to change. (yomi is the level of "if I do then he'll do, but he'll expect that I'll expect it, so instead I'll...")


I personally think something similar is true for mafia. I believe this with no scientific evidence at all.

A meta strategy that is popular for town/scum is something that scum can try to emulate or refrain from emulating. Then they eventually go two levels deep and become "so scummy it isn't" as a yomi level 2. These are things people easily change. Town also don't keep in mind the same things that scum do. Scum try not to be scummy; town don't--they just try to be themselves.

But changing how a specific player thinks, writes, and interacts; in particular over the course of the game...this is much harder for someone to change.

So I think brainbomb's idea that comparing food to himself is the wrong sort of meta is incorrect. I think comparing someone's opening style to the "wrong sort of opening style" is incorrect. Good scum players have in mind "not to do the 'scummy' thing" and town players aren't thinking of it.