Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[damo666]

If a role that returns their target's return targets the NK who dies before they act what return does that role get?

[Jamiet99uk]

If a role that returns their target's return targets the NK who dies before they act what return does that role get?

My guess would be "failed" but ##CALL GM ?

[worcej]

If worcej is doctor, I demand a tirade from him for being outed (:

I've been pretty anti mass claim, because it makes so much of the game just ... like this

I'm being fine if worcej is mad at me for outing right now. I'm kinda mad myself. Hyped because I also thrive in mental mechanics, but the game is pretty much over and what has everyone done? We should really think over if we ever want a mass claim again

To be fair, a setup should be reviewed to make sure a mass claim isn't the default best move for town.

Massclaims should only be good in special circumstances and not as a D1/D2 default.

I'm hoping town is over confident and Mafia was able to use their powers to mess with the results enough.

Shit happens - I for sure believe ghug and darg reviewed the setup but ultimately how the mass claim was figured out was missed by them. We have a lot of smart players who can analyze things like this.

My suggestion to anyone who is designing games like this is to have more roles than players. If there were several additional roles that were unassigned and we had no idea if they were or not, it would leave significant gaps in how we’re finding buckets of scum here.

At this point, I feel bad for Monarch - for having her setup kinda broken (unless a lot of lies are actually happening here) - and bad for the scum team, who are most likely getting fucked over. I’ve been scum in a setup where mechanics of PRs identified the scum team quickly (the Serenity/Firefly game, cannot remember the game number) and it sucks to be boned via mechanics this way.

[Kakarroto]

was thinking about possible role candidates (some are low chance but could still be) if they posted their result in thread.

the corrupt cop could be either D&W or Jamie, the other would be middle manager

the email hacker could be babyspice

maybe the dada driver is Nephthys, but would that role post their result?

the sicko could be then BK3K, maybe frogster

and police commissioner heart? But that role would probably fake their result


so lets look from the other side

if food is mafia, with targeting sweet, he couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

BK couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker

Brian couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

lfischl couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker



so if we sure about BK or lfischl being mafia, we should vote them today for a chance to hit the sicko

[worcej]

I'll vote for whoever Kak tells me to tbh

bernie sanders

Shit, I may just write him in at this point if the 2024 election plays out the same as 2020

[brainbomb]

I think the setup is fine, many things can be overlooked or unrealized in the pre planning portion.

One methology I used in the past was sequential rolemadness where roles only come active in certain phases throughout the game, and make it hard for people to mass claim because some person might not even be the role they will eventually be until phase 7.

When I ran civ 6 mafia, mass claiming never factored into the game and many of the roles for the town were also potential roles scum could have too, so there were very few reasons to mass claim.

Another solution is to get real nasty and have a setup like this have no flip of any kind also. in other words even when people die nothing will ever be proven to anyone.

[damo666]

was thinking about possible role candidates (some are low chance but could still be) if they posted their result in thread.

the corrupt cop could be either D&W or Jamie, the other would be middle manager

the email hacker could be babyspice

maybe the dada driver is Nephthys, but would that role post their result?

the sicko could be then BK3K, maybe frogster

and police commissioner heart? But that role would probably fake their result


so lets look from the other side

if food is mafia, with targeting sweet, he couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

BK couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker

Brian couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

lfischl couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker



so if we sure about BK or lfischl being mafia, we should vote them today for a chance to hit the sicko

I think it's way too difficult to try assign maf roles and some of those are townclears in my book!

[worcej]

I think the setup is fine, many things can be overlooked or unrealized in the pre planning portion.

One methology I used in the past was sequential rolemadness where roles only come active in certain phases throughout the game, and make it hard for people to mass claim because some person might not even be the role they will eventually be until phase 7.

When I ran civ 6 mafia, mass claiming never factored into the game and many of the roles for the town were also potential roles scum could have too, so there were very few reasons to mass claim.

Another solution is to get real nasty and have a setup like this have no flip of any kind also. in other words even when people die nothing will ever be proven to anyone.

The civ game setup was great. Having scum/town roles also makes these buckets not possible.

I have very fond memories of that game… damn you damo, Durga, and Foxcastle for ruining my almost SK victory…

[Kakarroto]

worcej, you are good at PR hunting ... who do you think could be the mafia roleblocker (sicko)? Regarding my previous post?

[worcej]

##vote foodcoats

The comments about the spreadsheet are making me think he’s the scum here FWIW

[brainbomb]

it makes sense to me that if babyspice is mafia, they would visit me, knowing im visiting them, and pretend shes visiting lfischl. and its a race at that point for baby to claim whatever she can based on the result she gets from visiting me.

actually pretty brilliant idea, because mafia knew Id be visiting her, they just didnt know what id be getting back as a message.

baby claims my result real fast as she was coached to do, and its immediately plausible since lfischl also voted will.

this combined with her being told to ask how to send in her night actions are all explained by clever mafia thinking, that they may as well use her new status to try to also townslip her too.

[Kakarroto]

was thinking about possible role candidates (some are low chance but could still be) if they posted their result in thread.

the corrupt cop could be either D&W or Jamie, the other would be middle manager

the email hacker could be babyspice

maybe the dada driver is Nephthys, but would that role post their result?

the sicko could be then BK3K, maybe frogster

and police commissioner heart? But that role would probably fake their result


so lets look from the other side

if food is mafia, with targeting sweet, he couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

BK couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker

Brian couldn't be sicko, corrupt cop or email hacker

lfischl couldn't be corrupt cop or email hacker



so if we sure about BK or lfischl being mafia, we should vote them today for a chance to hit the sicko

I think it's way too difficult to try assign maf roles and some of those are townclears in my book!

well, we have time, and not much else to do in game, so it couldn't hurt?

but yeah I don't believe heart or frog are mafia and Neph is pretty unlikely too. But there is a small mathematical chance still up. Something not to forget if there is a mistake in the list

[brainbomb]

I think the setup is fine, many things can be overlooked or unrealized in the pre planning portion.

One methology I used in the past was sequential rolemadness where roles only come active in certain phases throughout the game, and make it hard for people to mass claim because some person might not even be the role they will eventually be until phase 7.

When I ran civ 6 mafia, mass claiming never factored into the game and many of the roles for the town were also potential roles scum could have too, so there were very few reasons to mass claim.

Another solution is to get real nasty and have a setup like this have no flip of any kind also. in other words even when people die nothing will ever be proven to anyone.

The civ game setup was great. Having scum/town roles also makes these buckets not possible.

I have very fond memories of that game… damn you damo, Durga, and Foxcastle for ruining my almost SK victory…

I think there was some nuance in that game that I reminded people of as a GM note too that unfortunately made people start thinking about you as being sk. I dont recall what it was but I think it was my fualt in some technical issue

[brainbomb]

it makes sense to me that if babyspice is mafia, they would visit me, knowing im visiting them, and pretend shes visiting lfischl. and its a race at that point for baby to claim whatever she can based on the result she gets from visiting me.

actually pretty brilliant idea, because mafia knew Id be visiting her, they just didnt know what id be getting back as a message.

baby claims my result real fast as she was coached to do, and its immediately plausible since lfischl also voted will.

this combined with her being told to ask how to send in her night actions are all explained by clever mafia thinking, that they may as well use her new status to try to also townslip her too.

actually maybe this doesnt hold up because baby would not know what her role even was so visiting me could have a wide range of outcomes.

[worcej]

worcej, you are good at PR hunting ... who do you think could be the mafia roleblocker (sicko)? Regarding my previous post?

My skills at PR hunting are entirely based off meta and reads.

This game is very mechanics dominate and no one knows what PR they are for sure until now, so only really D2 posts would change.

BK3K hasn’t done anything and could be lurking to protect themselves here. I wouldn’t put it past him to do that now based off my read of player skill, awaiting for guidance in scum chat.

Lfischl looks to be assuming/interpreting the game and could be lying to cause confusion. I am unsure how much of your analysis is dependent on his report or not. The confidence in his scum list has me partially confused as well, leading to me believing it’s fabricated intentionally.

[Kakarroto]

it makes sense to me that if babyspice is mafia, they would visit me, knowing im visiting them, and pretend shes visiting lfischl. and its a race at that point for baby to claim whatever she can based on the result she gets from visiting me.

actually pretty brilliant idea, because mafia knew Id be visiting her, they just didnt know what id be getting back as a message.

baby claims my result real fast as she was coached to do, and its immediately plausible since lfischl also voted will.

this combined with her being told to ask how to send in her night actions are all explained by clever mafia thinking, that they may as well use her new status to try to also townslip her too.

hmmm

just one thing, babyspace would have a 1 in 5 chance being the email hacker without any prior knowledge. Would that plan stand for every mafia role?

if sicko: brain gets rb'ed (checks out)

if corrupted cop: baby knows brains role ... what to claim now?

if police commissioner: baby knows brain is town, what now?

if dada driver: baby knows brain is targeting baby. Well duh.

so it's a 2/5 chance for mafia with that counterclaim. In 3/5 chances, mafia would've needed to prepare an immense amount of claims to counter any possible role brain could be.

not impossible, brain theory could still be right here; but I tend towards due to the high chance and effort mafia would have to go through, it's unplausible.

[worcej]

I think the setup is fine, many things can be overlooked or unrealized in the pre planning portion.

One methology I used in the past was sequential rolemadness where roles only come active in certain phases throughout the game, and make it hard for people to mass claim because some person might not even be the role they will eventually be until phase 7.

When I ran civ 6 mafia, mass claiming never factored into the game and many of the roles for the town were also potential roles scum could have too, so there were very few reasons to mass claim.

Another solution is to get real nasty and have a setup like this have no flip of any kind also. in other words even when people die nothing will ever be proven to anyone.

The civ game setup was great. Having scum/town roles also makes these buckets not possible.

I have very fond memories of that game… damn you damo, Durga, and Foxcastle for ruining my almost SK victory…

I think there was some nuance in that game that I reminded people of as a GM note too that unfortunately made people start thinking about you as being sk. I dont recall what it was but I think it was my fualt in some technical issue

Nah, scum thought I was town and I lived through their NK. I targeted Durga and she flipped scum. I was the most likely role (SK) who could live through the NK at that point. In damo’s dying gasp, he fingered me to ensure Fox had a chance in Final 3

[sweetandcool]

I've been pretty anti mass claim, because it makes so much of the game just ... like this

I'm being fine if worcej is mad at me for outing right now. I'm kinda mad myself. Hyped because I also thrive in mental mechanics, but the game is pretty much over and what has everyone done? We should really think over if we ever want a mass claim again

To be fair, a setup should be reviewed to make sure a mass claim isn't the default best move for town.

Massclaims should only be good in special circumstances and not as a D1/D2 default.

I'm hoping town is over confident and Mafia was able to use their powers to mess with the results enough.

Shit happens - I for sure believe ghug and darg reviewed the setup but ultimately how the mass claim was figured out was missed by them. We have a lot of smart players who can analyze things like this.

My suggestion to anyone who is designing games like this is to have more roles than players. If there were several additional roles that were unassigned and we had no idea if they were or not, it would leave significant gaps in how we’re finding buckets of scum here.

At this point, I feel bad for Monarch - for having her setup kinda broken (unless a lot of lies are actually happening here) - and bad for the scum team, who are most likely getting fucked over. I’ve been scum in a setup where mechanics of PRs identified the scum team quickly (the Serenity/Firefly game, cannot remember the game number) and it sucks to be boned via mechanics this way.

Agreed on all points wholeheartedly.

[Kakarroto]

by the way, all the time I think of the 2/3 mafia in BK, Brian and worcej, but I totally ignored that detective bozo scanned worcej as town

well glad that my read was correct, but that was silly of me to overlook the whole time. So worcej is just confirmed town.

[brainbomb]

I too was in a role madness game as mafia where everyone was members of british parliament and I was a conservative back bencher and had to make up some random name I looked up on google to be the parliament member I was pretending to be. I went to alot of effort.

and for my effort, got killed on Day 1. but not by the town, the day ended in a tie because I unvoted, and because my day did not end with me voting someone, the GM modkilled me and did not warn me - and I had forgotten you cant end the day as an unvote.