Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Jamiet99uk]

it sounds like my role is one that is going to be cumbersome to actually clear mechanically. therefore maybe we should flip jamie today and verify that my push on him was accurate and was never scum theatre.

and if that still isnt enough we should then flip worcej also and see if im 2/2 on scumreads today

I think we are both town tbh but your statement does not make logic.

How does flipping me verify that our exchange was not scum vs scum theatre?

If someone theorises that we are *both* scum engaging in theatre, then flipping one of us, if that person is scum, would do nothing to confirm that the other person is town.

[Jamiet99uk]

door darter - CHAQA/SWEET -> one is mafia

only chaqa/sweet needs to be cleared

I get this now, sorry for asking redundant questions earlier. Of the two I think Sweet is more likely to be scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

So the main scum suspects for me are:

Sweetandcool (or if wrong, Chaqa)
Foodcoats
Lfischl
BobMcBob

[brainbomb]

So the main scum suspects for me are:

Sweetandcool (or if wrong, Chaqa)
Foodcoats
Lfischl
BobMcBob

BK3K?

[Kakarroto]

I was happy to see that everyone ignored BunnyGo and claimed only their real result.

you don't think it's possible that there are some town masking their real result and lied about it like sweet suggested?

[Jamiet99uk]

So the main scum suspects for me are:

Sweetandcool (or if wrong, Chaqa)
Foodcoats
Lfischl
BobMcBob

BK3K?

Gosh I'm so caught up looking at mech-based indicators of guilt I forgot about BK3-PO. Thanks for reminding me.

I don't think they're clear but I suggest we resolve some of the mech-based ones above as there are pretty much guaranteed scum up for grabs, don't you think?

[Kakarroto]

@Jamie please check your PM's again from last EoN and read it closely. Does it only tell you the role information? That's pretty important.

[bozotheclown]

Starting with what we know for certain, sorting the 13 remaining town roles by result type, we have the following:

success/failure (4-7) - Doctor, Curfew Enforcer, News Host, Lobbyist, (Mail Man), any RBed role:
BK3K, foodcoats, Frogsterking, Hamilton, Kakarroto, lfischl, worcej

town/mafia (3 or 4) - Detective, Internal Affairs, Electoral Commission Officer, (Mail Man):
bozotheclown, heart

role (1 or 2) - Middle Manager, (Mail Man):
Diplomacy&Warfare, Jamie

player ID (2 or 3) - Ruber Driver, Polster, (Mail Man):
babyspice, brainbomb, Nephthys

delivered/undelivered (2 or 3) - Paper Delivery Boy, Door-Darter, (Mail Man):
Chaqa, damo, sweetandcool

not claimed:
Bob

I think because we have 2 "failure" reports, it is theoretically possible for all players in the success/failure group to be town, although that does not seem very likely. However, the success/failure, role, player ID, and delivered/undelivered groups all would need to include the Mail Man to not contain a mafia, so at least 3 of these groups contain at least 1 mafia if I have everything correct.

So, either I am a Middle Manager and BobMcBob targeted the Electoral Commissions Officer or I am a Mailman and BobMcBob is the Middle Manager (implying Jamie is a Mafia) or I am a Mailman and BobMcBob is a Mafia Corrupt Cop or Email Hacker. Or something involving the PI. I remember a while back someone said they knew who the PI was but I'm too lazy to go back and figure that out.
The alternative to all that is that I'm a Mafia Corrupt Cop or Email Hacker but I'm not going to go over that because I know I'm not. Someone else can do the logic of how me being a Mafia would work out.

BunnyGo was the Private Investigator, it was announced when he was the NK.

[bozotheclown]

I was happy to see that everyone ignored BunnyGo and claimed only their real result.

you don't think it's possible that there are some town masking their real result and lied about it like sweet suggested?

It is possible, but it would not be very helpful. What I meant, though, was that no one gave 2 alternative results.

[Kakarroto]

I was happy to see that everyone ignored BunnyGo and claimed only their real result.

you don't think it's possible that there are some town masking their real result and lied about it like sweet suggested?

It is possible, but it would not be very helpful. What I meant, though, was that no one gave 2 alternative results.

yeah, I know, bunny's suggestion with the 2 different results. Would've been fun, but not the road taken.

disregarding any mechanics, who do you think between Jamie, sweet and chaqa is lying mafia?

[Jamiet99uk]

you don't think it's possible that there are some town masking their real result and lied about it like sweet suggested?

It is possible, but it would not be very helpful. What I meant, though, was that no one gave 2 alternative results.

yeah, I know, bunny's suggestion with the 2 different results. Would've been fun, but not the road taken.

disregarding any mechanics, who do you think between Jamie, sweet and chaqa is lying mafia?

Why are you connecting me, sweet, and chaqa in that way?

I am not claiming anything to do with deliveries.

[Kakarroto]

@Jamie please check your PM inbox again, that would be very appreciated. It's an important puzzle piece and I don't want any slipping under the sofa while we try to put it all together

[Kakarroto]

It is possible, but it would not be very helpful. What I meant, though, was that no one gave 2 alternative results.

yeah, I know, bunny's suggestion with the 2 different results. Would've been fun, but not the road taken.

disregarding any mechanics, who do you think between Jamie, sweet and chaqa is lying mafia?

Why are you connecting me, sweet, and chaqa in that way?

I am not claiming anything to do with deliveries.

that's correct, you don't. But something happened and you can give us important information about that

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie please check your PM's again from last EoN and read it closely. Does it only tell you the role information? That's pretty important.

I only got one PM and there was no other information. It wasn't a copy of the role PM or anything, literally just the name of the role. Nothing else. No alignment info (although the role is of course a town role), no player names, no food, no fruit, nothing else.

[brainbomb]

it sounds like my role is one that is going to be cumbersome to actually clear mechanically. therefore maybe we should flip jamie today and verify that my push on him was accurate and was never scum theatre.

and if that still isnt enough we should then flip worcej also and see if im 2/2 on scumreads today

I think we are both town tbh but your statement does not make logic.

How does flipping me verify that our exchange was not scum vs scum theatre?

If someone theorises that we are *both* scum engaging in theatre, then flipping one of us, if that person is scum, would do nothing to confirm that the other person is town.

How does flipping me verify that our exchange was not scum vs scum theatre?

flip jamie today and verify that my push on him was accurate

If someone theorises that we are *both* scum engaging in theatre, then flipping one of us, if that person is scum, would do nothing to confirm that the other person is town.

and was never scum theatre.

If someone feels so strongly that you and I engaged in scum theatre, let me first say, no one ever presented such a stance. The closest person to even suggesting such a thing was bozo, who clarified that he simply didnt think our fight was conclusive evidence of us both being town. He did not go as far as to say we could be scum together and this was all faked.

If there was someone who felt we were engaged in scum theatre, and that our fight was staged, they never once came forward and presented such a concept openly.

Therefore, in my opinion, which is never absolute; if some player out there was thinking in the back of their mind that you and I fought each other out of the need to put forth some huge scum theatre performance; seeing you flip mafia, combined with my case, and the level of confidence I was asserting; I beleive even that person would be swayed and would cease to think you and I were ever possibly mafia together.

You are assuming there is some player out there, who thinks maybe we were faking it, and they are so staunchly entrenched in that notion, that they would continue to beleive that line of thinking even after seeing you flip scum. And I do not beleive that this would happen, nor would this person actually exist. But if they did, they would be so swayed, and so moved by the result that any thought of me being mafia ever in this universe would be vaporized into utter oblivion. So much so that very part of their entire brain would explode, and they would die instantly, splattering grey matter all over their phone or computer monitor.

[Jamiet99uk]

yeah, I know, bunny's suggestion with the 2 different results. Would've been fun, but not the road taken.

disregarding any mechanics, who do you think between Jamie, sweet and chaqa is lying mafia?

Why are you connecting me, sweet, and chaqa in that way?

I am not claiming anything to do with deliveries.

that's correct, you don't. But something happened and you can give us important information about that

I'm not following. Nothing that happened to me last night provides any information about Sweet or Chaqa. What do you mean?

[Kakarroto]

@Jamie please check your PM's again from last EoN and read it closely. Does it only tell you the role information? That's pretty important.

I only got one PM and there was no other information. It wasn't a copy of the role PM or anything, literally just the name of the role. Nothing else. No alignment info (although the role is of course a town role), no player names, no food, no fruit, nothing else.

thank you very much. That is vital information.

that should make chaqa town

[Kakarroto]

EXPLANATION:

The two town roles that give return message as "delivered" or "undelivered":

You are the Paper Delivery Boy. You deliver a newspaper subscription to a target, including their name, which will remind them who they are. They will get an additional message with their role PM. Returns "delivered" or "undelivered", as appropriate.

You are the Door-Darter. You you deliver a delicious dinner to someone in the building. They will receive an additional PM with the food. You return "delivered" or "undelivered", as appropriate.


damo's and bozo's claim fit very neat together for damo being paper delivery boy and bozo detective. Could be extremely bold fabricated mafia lie, but there was no real counterclaim (aside of the 3 delivered/undelivered message count)

sweet claimed that he did deliver his package, and with the power of elimination, he should be door darter if he doesn't lie. So Jamie should've gotten the food (btw how fitting, we all should get us some 'food' today imo). Now two option: if Jamie confirms, that would make chaqa lying mafia and we should vote him out to confirm sweet as town. If Jamie says he didn't get anything like that after checking, then one of Jamie or sweet has to be lying mafia.

well, that would be if any involved town doesn't lie like sweet said, but he himself said before he did not in this case and Jamie and chaqa probably not. If they are town and lying, now would be the time to confess to get this unravelled.

[Jamiet99uk]

it sounds like my role is one that is going to be cumbersome to actually clear mechanically. therefore maybe we should flip jamie today and verify that my push on him was accurate and was never scum theatre.

and if that still isnt enough we should then flip worcej also and see if im 2/2 on scumreads today

I think we are both town tbh but your statement does not make logic.

How does flipping me verify that our exchange was not scum vs scum theatre?

If someone theorises that we are *both* scum engaging in theatre, then flipping one of us, if that person is scum, would do nothing to confirm that the other person is town.

How does flipping me verify that our exchange was not scum vs scum theatre?

flip jamie today and verify that my push on him was accurate

If someone theorises that we are *both* scum engaging in theatre, then flipping one of us, if that person is scum, would do nothing to confirm that the other person is town.

and was never scum theatre.

If someone feels so strongly that you and I engaged in scum theatre, let me first say, no one ever presented such a stance. The closest person to even suggesting such a thing was bozo, who clarified that he simply didnt think our fight was conclusive evidence of us both being town. He did not go as far as to say we could be scum together and this was all faked.

If there was someone who felt we were engaged in scum theatre, and that our fight was staged, they never once came forward and presented such a concept openly.

Therefore, in my opinion, which is never absolute; if some player out there was thinking in the back of their mind that you and I fought each other out of the need to put forth some huge scum theatre performance; seeing you flip mafia, combined with my case, and the level of confidence I was asserting; I beleive even that person would be swayed and would cease to think you and I were ever possibly mafia together.

You are assuming there is some player out there, who thinks maybe we were faking it, and they are so staunchly entrenched in that notion, that they would continue to beleive that line of thinking even after seeing you flip scum. And I do not beleive that this would happen, nor would this person actually exist. But if they did, they would be so swayed, and so moved by the result that any thought of me being mafia ever in this universe would be vaporized into utter oblivion. So much so that very part of their entire brain would explode, and they would die instantly, splattering grey matter all over their phone or computer monitor.

I think you are completely wrong, but I also think this is a needless side-road and I am not sure why you decided to bring it up, so let's just park this discussion for now and focus on more important matters.

[Kakarroto]

Why are you connecting me, sweet, and chaqa in that way?

I am not claiming anything to do with deliveries.

that's correct, you don't. But something happened and you can give us important information about that

I'm not following. Nothing that happened to me last night provides any information about Sweet or Chaqa. What do you mean?

sweet claiming he got a return message of "delivered"

damo+bozos claim makes it impossible that sweet is paper delivery boy, so sweet has to be door dasher who brings you food. You did not receive it even when he was successful. Hence both of your information is in conflict