Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[foodcoats]

VCA

Jamie (7) - Looks bad, is only scum with fisch if BK3K is town also.
Baby (6) - Looks bad
Brain (5) - On page 48 declares fisch/Bk3K in his scum reads (final reads list posted) Then comes out saying he would vote for sweet/Just. Acknowledges that neither are in his top scumreads but stays true. Given that fisch was on 3 and brain was part of it, I'm not against the switch but doesn't reek of town. Null
Hamilton (4) - Eh. nothing wild. No read list but justifies his vote. Nothing too sus here
Bozo (3) - This makes sense, nothing that reeks
Food (2) - Natural progression in logic
Dip (1) - Voted too early for analysis to be useful, seems like a joke vote that went on for too long

I decided to check HB and noticed he had no scum reads D1. I would usually think "it is easier for scum to make scumreads" and so this doesn't mean HB is scum or whatever, but he is the one to break the 3-way wagon tie at 25 minutes, and he did make a comment at one point that "Will is doing just will things," said he was null on lfischl and that he was not inclined to scumread sweet. So what made him make a move?

Come on down Haas-Bioroid, what made you make that move at that time and what are your current scumreads?

I think the only bit here that relevant is the tie breaking, which I didn't consider tbh.

1. The Will being will was on page 21, I think there isn't much to go off on that . I think it would have been more S/S if will flipped S.
2. The sweet thing kinda biols down to the scumtell as far as I can see, he said he didn't understand it
3. He doesn't really comment on fisch throughout the day. I've given him a pass however if fisch flips S it looks worse (the null vs not a scumlean looks to set up a sweet vote if it came down to it)

Why vote then and there? My best answer is because that was when he showed up but appreciate there could be alternative motives

I was hoping for HB to explain this. (Sorry if I made that confusing!)

[sweetandcool]

lol yeah buddy I read your whole iso, and your argument is shit. Here is your chance to make it not shit. Go ahead.

Too bad.

Too bad what? Do you agree your read of Jamie is bad? Do you actually scumread Jamie or is it a joke?

Can you tell me about your town read of brainbomb?

I'm not indulging you with that attitude.

I'll do what I want and I'll be heard from when I am good and ready.

[foodcoats]

I decided to check HB and noticed he had no scum reads D1. I would usually think "it is easier for scum to make scumreads" and so this doesn't mean HB is scum or whatever, but he is the one to break the 3-way wagon tie at 25 minutes, and he did make a comment at one point that "Will is doing just will things," said he was null on lfischl and that he was not inclined to scumread sweet. So what made him make a move?

Come on down Haas-Bioroid, what made you make that move at that time and what are your current scumreads?

I think the only bit here that relevant is the tie breaking, which I didn't consider tbh.

1. The Will being will was on page 21, I think there isn't much to go off on that . I think it would have been more S/S if will flipped S.
2. The sweet thing kinda biols down to the scumtell as far as I can see, he said he didn't understand it
3. He doesn't really comment on fisch throughout the day. I've given him a pass however if fisch flips S it looks worse (the null vs not a scumlean looks to set up a sweet vote if it came down to it)

Why vote then and there? My best answer is because that was when he showed up but appreciate there could be alternative motives

I was hoping for HB to explain this. (Sorry if I made that confusing!)

And, sorry, I should clarify... your post does indeed go into more context on why I am wondering the "why at this point vote Will." There's nothing strong in HB's iso, so I would like to hear more about what HB had in his head at the time.

[sweetandcool]

Who else is on your short list, sweet?

So far Jam and lfishl, but that will probably change as I process the first phase.

[foodcoats]

Too bad.

Too bad what? Do you agree your read of Jamie is bad? Do you actually scumread Jamie or is it a joke?

Can you tell me about your town read of brainbomb?

I'm not indulging you with that attitude.

I'll do what I want and I'll be heard from when I am good and ready.

What attitude? What indulging? You made two claims on the basis of, essentially, "feels," and I am asking you to explain them. That is a basic part of the game and it does not seem you are new to Mafia.

[sweetandcool]

Too bad what? Do you agree your read of Jamie is bad? Do you actually scumread Jamie or is it a joke?

Can you tell me about your town read of brainbomb?

I'm not indulging you with that attitude.

I'll do what I want and I'll be heard from when I am good and ready.

What attitude? What indulging? You made two claims on the basis of, essentially, "feels," and I am asking you to explain them. That is a basic part of the game and it does not seem you are new to Mafia.

No thanks.

[foodcoats]

I'm not indulging you with that attitude.

I'll do what I want and I'll be heard from when I am good and ready.

What attitude? What indulging? You made two claims on the basis of, essentially, "feels," and I am asking you to explain them. That is a basic part of the game and it does not seem you are new to Mafia.

No thanks.

Why not? You said you want to be productive.

In particular, brainbomb has explained his arguments on Jamie very well and is making me think; Neph was one of my townreads yesterday and seems to think Jamie is scum, too. So I am interested in arguments in this space. What is yours?

[BunnyGo]

I want fisch to publically declare the sweet scum tell and Bunny to confirm/deny

Lol that's a joke from fisch. We've never ever played together before.

How do you know?

[brainbomb]

worcej ISO really reinforces my gut that he is mafia.

[Frogsterking]

aren't there some maf-roles that 'eff' with PR roles? *looks* hmm, well, there is one kinda RB, and the rest are information gain roles. So ok, the potential isn't too great.

Still, one role which blocks and that could lead to a chain reaction so people don't get their supposed information (like, if the rb hit a role that scans a role, but that person was targeted by a role that returns what their target gets, and so on). If mafia knows what town generally plans, there are ways for them to manipulate.

We should be very cautious for any big plans that are complicated. I would prefer if everyone decides for themselves as that would also show us their thought process (at least partially), but if we decide to make a plan for all of us, then it should be one that is fool proof and doesn't let mafia much room for manipulations (well I doubt there will be none, but I haven't thought it through so maybe there is).

This really isn't a great post

yes, you said so (or at least hinted at it) before

anything special you want to point out about it?

I think the bit about proceeding with caution is a bit that scum like to play

[sweetandcool]

I want fisch to publically declare the sweet scum tell and Bunny to confirm/deny

Lol that's a joke from fisch. We've never ever played together before.

How do you know?

I would know if we played before....

[BunnyGo]

worcej ISO really reinforces my gut that he is mafia.

Anything in particular? I was giving him a rl pass.

[Frogsterking]

@ brain

Anything you can tell me about wocjrek's scum game?

[BunnyGo]

Lol that's a joke from fisch. We've never ever played together before.

How do you know?

I would know if we played before....

Do you think he read your old games?

[sweetandcool]

worcej ISO really reinforces my gut that he is mafia.

I'll look at that, then.

VCA doesn't look great for me because it looks like I was saved. But given I know my alignment and Will's I definitely towned Frog too quickly. Could have easily just been scum happily driving up three towns to the top wagons.

[Frogsterking]

This really isn't a great post

yes, you said so (or at least hinted at it) before

anything special you want to point out about it?

I think the bit about proceeding with caution is a bit that scum like to play

Also it feels like the goal of the first paragraph was to imply that you don't know scum roles. This post just stood out to me.

[Nephthys]

Yeah actually so do I. Sweet is being oddly belligerent, too, now that you mention them.

Na, sweet is town

What makes you think sweet is town?

/snip

please explain what do you find here so disgusting, preferable in the english language

Inherently D1 is a semi-blind shot. There is often little of objectively analyse, yes we hit town more than mafia. However we can then analyse the wagons etc with our first piece of objective evidence. In a role madness where we never really know our own actions, I would argue that we need all the objective information we can get. Another reason why I find anyone that wants to kill a lurker today inherently scummy

The problem is that you are scum reading someone for playing in a different way than you like.

This post. its either Kak/Sweet scum duo or he's town trying to anti-tunnel me. Based on the general widespread town read of Kak I'm going town v strong

Also, personal reasons re the scumtell

[sweetandcool]

How do you know?

I would know if we played before....

Do you think he read your old games?

I don't think I respect anyone's abilities (even myself) to believe someone could retroactively read my games AND identify a scumtell AND choose me specifically to reserve this analysis for OR have time to give a similar treatment to other players.

[sweetandcool]

Na, sweet is town

What makes you think sweet is town?

Inherently D1 is a semi-blind shot. There is often little of objectively analyse, yes we hit town more than mafia. However we can then analyse the wagons etc with our first piece of objective evidence. In a role madness where we never really know our own actions, I would argue that we need all the objective information we can get. Another reason why I find anyone that wants to kill a lurker today inherently scummy

The problem is that you are scum reading someone for playing in a different way than you like.

This post. its either Kak/Sweet scum duo or he's town trying to anti-tunnel me. Based on the general widespread town read of Kak I'm going town v strong

Also, personal reasons re the scumtell

Be glad ghug isn't in this game. He probably would have said something similar as either alignment.

[sweetandcool]

worcej ISO really reinforces my gut that he is mafia.

Interesting. So I read it and I came to the usual conclusion that I can't really read him. He mostly didn't do anything notable except his townread of Frog. He doesn't strike me as the type to be impressed like that, but I just don't see a scum motivation for him to lie.

The only thing that would make him more likely scum to me is if the top wagons were all town when he voted Chaqa.

So I townlean him, but not sure.