Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[BunnyGo]

My mom is at the ER. She’s okay for now but I might be a bit absent here and there.

I’ve updated my order to Bob

Hope she recovers quickly.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, at the time you made the post above, when foodcoats came to your defence was there any thought in your mind about thinking lfischl was scum or did that read come later?

When I was arguing with you, did you go back and reread anything I said that made you start thinking lfischl was mafia?

As you have observed, I said on Page 23 I was not townreading him. You had interpreted my question to you as an indication I wanted to defend Lfischl because I townread him, which was not the case so I corrected it.

At that point in time, he was a null for me.

My shift to scumreading him came later when a specific post of his really pinged me, on page 37, in which he gently scolded BK3K and made a rather patronising remark about how there were certain expectations toward minimum participation which, by 24hrs into the game, everyone should have complied with. This I found highly ironic because Lfischl has a track record of non-participation and I wondered why he would take that tone. I thereafter began to look at him through a more critical lens.

[Jamiet99uk]

What did lfischl do between pages 21-48 that made you change your mind over to him being scum?

I have now answered this question.

[foodcoats]

we need to know who has what role to effectively use the roles while we have them.

I will quote bozo to continue to drive this point home. None of the returns we can get can be "trusted" in isolation. No one can actually conclude "I'm the detective!" if they get an alignment return, for example.

If you don't understand this, please read the setup.

I agree. Are you cool with sharing 2 competing options (or FAIL if you get FAIL) instead of one specific?

Do you mean the "encryption" thing? I think that that really gets in the way of trying to solve the game for town.

[foodcoats]

deflecting by claiming im deflecting is just you changing the subject more to continue to focus the topic on something other than lfischl.

this is now the 7th occasion on this page youve had an opportunity to explain why lfischl is town and youve failed to produce a single coherent statement in support of that

instead youve attacked me ad hominem and implied I cant remember my own reasoning - you never asked if I had any nuanced or updated reasoning

you attempted to bury the topic and turn it against me implying I should be disregarded because my wifes pregnancy is occupying too much of my focus

I do not townread Lfischl and did not claim that I did. Therefore there is no such explanation for me to post. I am not trying to defend Lfischl. I was asking you a fairly basic question about why you scumread him, so that we could discuss your case, to help me decide whether I ought to vote him with you. That's not the same as saying I think he's locktown or something. I asked a really quite simple question. This is how I play the game. I think that is normal.

You are not thinking clearly. I'm going to suggest you take a time-out as you seem to be getting upset. I don't want to upset you and I'm sorry if I have done, it was not my intention, Brain.

I'm going to take a few hours away from the game too, in the hope that helps calm things down.

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

When did I say I scumread Lfischl?

Why have you stopped scumreading me?

deflecting by claiming im deflecting is just you changing the subject more to continue to focus the topic on something other than lfischl.

this is now the 7th occasion on this page youve had an opportunity to explain why lfischl is town and youve failed to produce a single coherent statement in support of that

instead youve attacked me ad hominem and implied I cant remember my own reasoning - you never asked if I had any nuanced or updated reasoning

you attempted to bury the topic and turn it against me implying I should be disregarded because my wifes pregnancy is occupying too much of my focus

Hey brain, I don't want to know why lfischl is town. I want clarification on why you think lfischl is scum. Can you reply to my post? We all know Jamie isn't worth talking to.

lfischl posts at first study are detailed and surprising coming from him. I know what he does as both alignments and when he is mafia he tries just a bit harder and then becomes a wallflower as the game goes on. he has a path to win as mafia and its usually just laying low - but the only way he can do that is if he gets into your head early that hes just town so you forget him and move on

Okay, thank you for the clarification. If we put aside the meta argument, and given there is so little in lfischl's iso so far in this game (even if it is relatively detailed from a meta perspective), I am curious about all the activity that is directed towards lfischl, given how little activity they themselves have. What do you make of Bob and Will's attitudes and actions towards lfischl?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

Jamie also called you out on this, but Jamie has nowhere said he scumreads lfischl. Why are you spreading fake news?

this is interesting and makes me think Jamie-food-lfischl are all scum together possibly.

just a theory but it could just be that Jamie busses lfischl at EOD and doesnt join partner foodcoats on the Will wagon.

The simpler explanation is that you interpreted Jamie as specifically scumreading lfischl when he had not. I read Jamie's iso at the time to check that.

[sweetandcool]

Nah.

I plan to use my night action on brainbomb.

If Chaqa does not want to choose "up or down" I think Jamie needs to pick someone else so we can finalize damo's plan to get a list in time for everyone to see it.

Okay, I choose Damo.

Hahaha is Jamiet deliberately choosing people unlikely to get the job done?

[brainbomb]

Jamie, at the time you made the post above, when foodcoats came to your defence was there any thought in your mind about thinking lfischl was scum or did that read come later?

When I was arguing with you, did you go back and reread anything I said that made you start thinking lfischl was mafia?

As you have observed, I said on Page 23 I was not townreading him. You had interpreted my question to you as an indication I wanted to defend Lfischl because I townread him, which was not the case so I corrected it.

At that point in time, he was a null for me.

My shift to scumreading him came later when a specific post of his really pinged me, on page 37, in which he gently scolded BK3K and made a rather patronising remark about how there were certain expectations toward minimum participation which, by 24hrs into the game, everyone should have complied with. This I found highly ironic because Lfischl has a track record of non-participation and I wondered why he would take that tone. I thereafter began to look at him through a more critical lens.

counting substantive posts to lfischl or about lfischl after page 37, you claim you scumread him and viewed him in a much more critical lens.

and yet there are only three posts in total.

your reads lists where you add him
your vote for him on page 59
and

An elegant summary, thank you Jamie.

This is Jamie's favourite miskill hill to die on. Town people say false things too.

I am not voting for JustWill, I am voting for Lfischl.

You are voting for Damo alongside nobody else. Why do you think that is useful?

can you provide evidence of the critical lens you applied to this scumread?
notes?
recollections of inner thoughts you had at the time?

Im just not seeing any evidence of this becoming your top scumread.

[foodcoats]

Nah.

I plan to use my night action on brainbomb.

If Chaqa does not want to choose "up or down" I think Jamie needs to pick someone else so we can finalize damo's plan to get a list in time for everyone to see it.

This already isn’t going it happen simply because it’s difficult to organize so many people

But you yourself have agreed that IF it happens, it is DEFINITELY pro town and anti mafia. So why are you spending energy dumping on it? Why not pump up good town strats? Why are you dumping on town doing good things for town?

[Jamiet99uk]

If Chaqa does not want to choose "up or down" I think Jamie needs to pick someone else so we can finalize damo's plan to get a list in time for everyone to see it.

Okay, I choose Damo.

Hahaha is Jamiet deliberately choosing people unlikely to get the job done?

Quite the opposite. Damo is in my time zone and I expected him to appear. And lo, he did.

[sweetandcool]

babyspice666 → lfischl
BK3K → Nephthys
BobMcBob → sweetandcool
bozotheclown → worcej
Brainbomb → babyspice666
BunnyGo → BK3K
Chaqa → BobMcBob
Damo666 → bozotheclown
Diplomacy&Warfare → brainbomb
foodcoats → BunnyGo
Frogsterking → Chaqa
Hamilton Brian → damo666
heartthrob24909 → Diplomacy&Warfare
Jamiet99uk → foodcoats
Kakarroto → Frogsterking
lfischl → Hamilton Brian
Nephthys → heartthrob24909
sweetandcool → Jamiet99uk
Worcej → Kakarroto

This is the definitive list. E.g. I target bozo.

Follow it or not, the choice is yours.

Holy crap I actually am following it

[foodcoats]

Foodcoats,

given the fact Jamie did eventually scumread lfischl, and did choose lfischl over Justaguy named will, when you reread Jamie from early on, do you find it strange that there was this whole dialogue of me putting words in his mouth, where I understood his post to imply he scumread lfischl, when he was really just asking me for reasons to join the wagon?

A. why is he considering joining the lfischl wagon with me if he doesnt scumread lfischl at all?

B. why did you feel Jamie needed to be defended here, and given he did eventually turn on lfischl do you think this should be looked into further?

I'm not in the mood to read isos right now, my main goal is to convince everyone to act pro-town by coordinating night actions to get the most info for town to do POE tomorrow.

I am also planning to go into tomorrow with a fresh and clear head because I was so wrong about Will, so revisiting Jamie and lfischl is definitely a possible agenda item.

Also I wasn't defending Jamie so much as getting annoyed at how you were misreading his statements.

[foodcoats]

I do not townread Lfischl and did not claim that I did. Therefore there is no such explanation for me to post. I am not trying to defend Lfischl. I was asking you a fairly basic question about why you scumread him, so that we could discuss your case, to help me decide whether I ought to vote him with you.

Jamie also called you out on this, but Jamie has nowhere said he scumreads lfischl. Why are you spreading fake news?

Food, lets talk about this. Why did you defend Jamie against me on this topic?

Do you interpret Jamie statements as "in no way saying he scumreads lfischl?"

Mostly I was trying to tamp down on it because it seemed like you two were fighting over nothing, I townread you, and I was leaning that Jamie was town more and more as D1 went on, and I thought it was a waste of breath the fight that was going on.

I looked at Jamie's iso to see if he said something along the lines of "I think lfischl is scum" and he did not say that. I think he said "I do not townread lfischl" or something but null does not mean a scumread.

[foodcoats]

Making an inference there it really looks like Jamie is indeed at that point NOT TOWNREADING Lfischl, thus... to some extent? scumreading lfischl, and is even considering voting lfischl, and then later he in fact DOES vote lfischl.

Yes, see, this inference is incorrect. I still have a number of nulls in my reads, that doesn't mean I scumread them. D'uh.

[sweetandcool]

Okay, I choose Damo.

Hahaha is Jamiet deliberately choosing people unlikely to get the job done?

Quite the opposite. Damo is in my time zone and I expected him to appear. And lo, he did.

Yes, it actually was an apt choice, my apologies.

It was just funny because Chaqa was unlikely to comply and damo hadn't been online for a really long time.

[foodcoats]

My mom is at the ER. She’s okay for now but I might be a bit absent here and there.

I’ve updated my order to Bob

Shit, sorry to hear that Chaqa. Hope everything is okay. I send you and your family my spirit energy.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, at the time you made the post above, when foodcoats came to your defence was there any thought in your mind about thinking lfischl was scum or did that read come later?

When I was arguing with you, did you go back and reread anything I said that made you start thinking lfischl was mafia?

As you have observed, I said on Page 23 I was not townreading him. You had interpreted my question to you as an indication I wanted to defend Lfischl because I townread him, which was not the case so I corrected it.

At that point in time, he was a null for me.

My shift to scumreading him came later when a specific post of his really pinged me, on page 37, in which he gently scolded BK3K and made a rather patronising remark about how there were certain expectations toward minimum participation which, by 24hrs into the game, everyone should have complied with. This I found highly ironic because Lfischl has a track record of non-participation and I wondered why he would take that tone. I thereafter began to look at him through a more critical lens.

counting substantive posts to lfischl or about lfischl after page 37, you claim you scumread him and viewed him in a much more critical lens.

and yet there are only three posts in total.

your reads lists where you add him
your vote for him on page 59
and

This is Jamie's favourite miskill hill to die on. Town people say false things too.

I am not voting for JustWill, I am voting for Lfischl.

You are voting for Damo alongside nobody else. Why do you think that is useful?

can you provide evidence of the critical lens you applied to this scumread?
notes?
recollections of inner thoughts you had at the time?

Im just not seeing any evidence of this becoming your top scumread.

1. There were four posts, not three.

2. I said "a more critical lens" not "a much more critical lens". Why are you trying to add heavy emphasis to things in this way?

3. I did not say he became my top scumread; I said I began scumreading him. Why are you trying to add heavy emphasis to things in this way?

He became one of the people in my scum pool partly because his post about meeting participation requirements appeared deeply insincere without coming across as a joke. I am not claiming that I then constructed an open-and-shut case on him.

[sweetandcool]

I think brainbomb is acting more like brainbomb.

I think Jamiet is less successful at acting like Jamiet.

So please discuss, is Jamiet actually Jamiet this game? Hmmmm.

[foodcoats]

I think brainbomb is acting more like brainbomb.

I think Jamiet is less successful at acting like Jamiet.

So please discuss, is Jamiet actually Jamiet this game? Hmmmm.

Do you think it is possible they are both scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

I think brainbomb is acting more like brainbomb.

I think Jamiet is less successful at acting like Jamiet.

So please discuss, is Jamiet actually Jamiet this game? Hmmmm.

Brainbomb is always Brainbomb.
I am always me.

Who do you think is sitting my account if it isn't me?

If you start saying I would scout and swear and lose my temper if I was town, I will be very disappointed in you. You don't want to disappoint me, do you?

[Jamiet99uk]

I think brainbomb is acting more like brainbomb.

I think Jamiet is less successful at acting like Jamiet.

So please discuss, is Jamiet actually Jamiet this game? Hmmmm.

Brainbomb is always Brainbomb.
I am always me.

Who do you think is sitting my account if it isn't me?

If you start saying I would shout and swear and lose my temper if I was town, I will be very disappointed in you. You don't want to disappoint me, do you?

*shout, not scout

EBWOP