Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[BunnyGo]

we need to know who has what role to effectively use the roles while we have them.

I will quote bozo to continue to drive this point home. None of the returns we can get can be "trusted" in isolation. No one can actually conclude "I'm the detective!" if they get an alignment return, for example.

If you don't understand this, please read the setup.

I agree. Are you cool with sharing 2 competing options (or FAIL if you get FAIL) instead of one specific?

[Jamiet99uk]

we need to know who has what role to effectively use the roles while we have them.

I will quote bozo to continue to drive this point home. None of the returns we can get can be "trusted" in isolation. No one can actually conclude "I'm the detective!" if they get an alignment return, for example.

If you don't understand this, please read the setup.

I agree. Are you cool with sharing 2 competing options (or FAIL if you get FAIL) instead of one specific?

I'm ok with this idea.

[brainbomb]

deflecting by claiming im deflecting is just you changing the subject more to continue to focus the topic on something other than lfischl.

this is now the 7th occasion on this page youve had an opportunity to explain why lfischl is town and youve failed to produce a single coherent statement in support of that

instead youve attacked me ad hominem and implied I cant remember my own reasoning - you never asked if I had any nuanced or updated reasoning

you attempted to bury the topic and turn it against me implying I should be disregarded because my wifes pregnancy is occupying too much of my focus

I do not townread Lfischl and did not claim that I did. Therefore there is no such explanation for me to post. I am not trying to defend Lfischl. I was asking you a fairly basic question about why you scumread him, so that we could discuss your case, to help me decide whether I ought to vote him with you. That's not the same as saying I think he's locktown or something. I asked a really quite simple question. This is how I play the game. I think that is normal.

You are not thinking clearly. I'm going to suggest you take a time-out as you seem to be getting upset. I don't want to upset you and I'm sorry if I have done, it was not my intention, Brain.

I'm going to take a few hours away from the game too, in the hope that helps calm things down.

@brain

How would it affect your reads if you assumed fish!town?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

When did I say I scumread Lfischl?

Why have you stopped scumreading me?

deflecting by claiming im deflecting is just you changing the subject more to continue to focus the topic on something other than lfischl.

this is now the 7th occasion on this page youve had an opportunity to explain why lfischl is town and youve failed to produce a single coherent statement in support of that

instead youve attacked me ad hominem and implied I cant remember my own reasoning - you never asked if I had any nuanced or updated reasoning

you attempted to bury the topic and turn it against me implying I should be disregarded because my wifes pregnancy is occupying too much of my focus

Hey brain, I don't want to know why lfischl is town. I want clarification on why you think lfischl is scum. Can you reply to my post? We all know Jamie isn't worth talking to.

lfischl posts at first study are detailed and surprising coming from him. I know what he does as both alignments and when he is mafia he tries just a bit harder and then becomes a wallflower as the game goes on. he has a path to win as mafia and its usually just laying low - but the only way he can do that is if he gets into your head early that hes just town so you forget him and move on

Okay, thank you for the clarification. If we put aside the meta argument, and given there is so little in lfischl's iso so far in this game (even if it is relatively detailed from a meta perspective), I am curious about all the activity that is directed towards lfischl, given how little activity they themselves have. What do you make of Bob and Will's attitudes and actions towards lfischl?

@brain

How would it affect your reads if you assumed fish!town?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

Jamie also called you out on this, but Jamie has nowhere said he scumreads lfischl. Why are you spreading fake news?

this is interesting and makes me think Jamie-food-lfischl are all scum together possibly.

just a theory but it could just be that Jamie busses lfischl at EOD and doesnt join partner foodcoats on the Will wagon.

[sweetandcool]

Bob why are you analyzing the sweet wagon?

I was wondering why it seemed to just disappear from contention (it didn't really, but at that point I'd already written half an analysis so sunk-cost fallacy won out). I did note that it's a bit of a silly thing to analyse. I would like answers from food though.

I, for one, am shocked. I really thought I was toast. But then a couple other wagons started to get some votes and then BK3K really got flashed hard.

I haven't done VCA, but I think scum just was pleased that they could promote another wagon, since I'm a guaranteed MK.

Or I'm scum and my pals saved me.

Hmmm, maybe I towned Frog too soon.

[brainbomb]

Well this line of thinking would turn my whole game upside down.

[Chaqa]

I don't want to choose someone I strongly townread in case I have a negative effect. I plan to choose brain because he's the highest volume poster.

If I get a scan that indicates him as scum, the game thread becomes shorter and easier to read, and if it indicates him as town, it means I should actually pay attention to what he says.

If it kills him, see the first point.

Just so you are aware, I am not the games top poster. I was not top poster on day 1, and I am not even close to top poster tonight either.

Don’t let facts get in the way of the narrative

[Chaqa]

Alright.

I nominate Chaqa.

Nah.

I plan to use my night action on brainbomb.

If Chaqa does not want to choose "up or down" I think Jamie needs to pick someone else so we can finalize damo's plan to get a list in time for everyone to see it.

This already isn’t going it happen simply because it’s difficult to organize so many people

[brainbomb]

Foodcoats,

given the fact Jamie did eventually scumread lfischl, and did choose lfischl over Justaguy named will, when you reread Jamie from early on, do you find it strange that there was this whole dialogue of me putting words in his mouth, where I understood his post to imply he scumread lfischl, when he was really just asking me for reasons to join the wagon?

A. why is he considering joining the lfischl wagon with me if he doesnt scumread lfischl at all?

B. why did you feel Jamie needed to be defended here, and given he did eventually turn on lfischl do you think this should be looked into further?

[Chaqa]

babyspice666 → lfischl
BK3K → Nephthys
BobMcBob → sweetandcool
bozotheclown → worcej
Brainbomb → babyspice666
BunnyGo → BK3K
Chaqa → BobMcBob
Damo666 → bozotheclown
Diplomacy&Warfare → brainbomb
foodcoats → BunnyGo
Frogsterking → Chaqa
Hamilton Brian → damo666
heartthrob24909 → Diplomacy&Warfare
Jamiet99uk → foodcoats
Kakarroto → Frogsterking
lfischl → Hamilton Brian
Nephthys → heartthrob24909
sweetandcool → Jamiet99uk
Worcej → Kakarroto

This is the definitive list. E.g. I target bozo.

Follow it or not, the choice is yours.

If there’s no chance of killing him I would target Bob

[BunnyGo]

babyspice666 → lfischl
BK3K → Nephthys
BobMcBob → sweetandcool
bozotheclown → worcej
Brainbomb → babyspice666
BunnyGo → BK3K
Chaqa → BobMcBob
Damo666 → bozotheclown
Diplomacy&Warfare → brainbomb
foodcoats → BunnyGo
Frogsterking → Chaqa
Hamilton Brian → damo666
heartthrob24909 → Diplomacy&Warfare
Jamiet99uk → foodcoats
Kakarroto → Frogsterking
lfischl → Hamilton Brian
Nephthys → heartthrob24909
sweetandcool → Jamiet99uk
Worcej → Kakarroto

This is the definitive list. E.g. I target bozo.

Follow it or not, the choice is yours.

If there’s no chance of killing him I would target Bob

the only "aggressive" action that town can do is role block. Most town actions are beneficial and should target town.

[BunnyGo]

@babyspice:

Welcome again.

Keep up the interactions. We want to get to know you.

And feel free to ask us questions.

Feel free to lead town here. We need it.

[brainbomb]

I do not townread Lfischl and did not claim that I did. Therefore there is no such explanation for me to post. I am not trying to defend Lfischl. I was asking you a fairly basic question about why you scumread him, so that we could discuss your case, to help me decide whether I ought to vote him with you.

Jamie also called you out on this, but Jamie has nowhere said he scumreads lfischl. Why are you spreading fake news?

Food, lets talk about this. Why did you defend Jamie against me on this topic?

Do you interpret Jamie statements as "in no way saying he scumreads lfischl?"

[brainbomb]

Making an inference there it really looks like Jamie is indeed at that point NOT TOWNREADING Lfischl, thus... to some extent? scumreading lfischl, and is even considering voting lfischl, and then later he in fact DOES vote lfischl.

[Chaqa]

My mom is at the ER. She’s okay for now but I might be a bit absent here and there.

I’ve updated my order to Bob

[brainbomb]

My mom is at the ER. She’s okay for now but I might be a bit absent here and there.

I’ve updated my order to Bob

best of wishes good sir. hope all is ok

[Jamiet99uk]

Making an inference there it really looks like Jamie is indeed at that point NOT TOWNREADING Lfischl, thus... to some extent? scumreading lfischl, and is even considering voting lfischl, and then later he in fact DOES vote lfischl.

Do you want me to comment or should I wait pending comments from Foodcost?

[Jamiet99uk]

My mom is at the ER. She’s okay for now but I might be a bit absent here and there.

I’ve updated my order to Bob

I am sorry to hear that; hope she will be well soon.

[brainbomb]

Jamie, at the time you made the post above, when foodcoats came to your defence was there any thought in your mind about thinking lfischl was scum or did that read come later?

When I was arguing with you, did you go back and reread anything I said that made you start thinking lfischl was mafia?

[sweetandcool]

Jamie,

I said IF YOU WERE MAFIA, you would maybe be unable to vote for Will because multiple mafia, maybe even your entire mafia team is already voting for Will and you wanted to avoid having all of the mafia on the same wagon.

OR, none of the mafia was on Will at all, and you savored such an option and chose to keep it devoid of any additional mafia.

these are both things you would think about if you were scum there. you cant tell me you arent aware enough to even think about what you maybe wouldve done if you were mafia.

Dude, I don't think he can. Hypothetical reads are out of the question.

[brainbomb]

My scumreads
bozo
lfischl
frog
jamie
BK3K

My scumreads
Sweetandcool
BobMcBob
Damo666
Unvote
JustAGuyNamedWill

you dont add lfischl to your scumreads until he noticed you put unvote in your reads.

What did lfischl do between pages 21-48 that made you change your mind over to him being scum?