Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie,

I said IF YOU WERE MAFIA, you would maybe be unable to vote for Will because multiple mafia, maybe even your entire mafia team is already voting for Will and you wanted to avoid having all of the mafia on the same wagon.

OR, none of the mafia was on Will at all, and you savored such an option and chose to keep it devoid of any additional mafia.

these are both things you would think about if you were scum there. you cant tell me you arent aware enough to even think about what you maybe wouldve done if you were mafia.

So if I am scum you theorise that at least 2 of my team mates are in the pool of:

Diplomacy&Warfare
foodcoats
bozotheclown
Hamilton Brian
brainbomb
babyspice666

That's interesting because I am inclined to scumread like one of those people max.

[brainbomb]

My brain works the way my brain works. I cannot change the functioning of my brain to suit your particular neuro-divergences. Get over it.

Alright. I accept you the way you are. Ive been having to "deal" with you all these years doing this same routine to me over and over. And yet we keep doing this anyway.

Then maybe the next time I ask you to provide a simple clarification, you could just answer me, instead of insisting on having a screaming match?

That would be nice.

I think its the tone of how you dismiss peoples ideas that is very off putting. It comes off as sardonic, like an appeal to audience:

"look see how stupid this post is, he cant even keep the facts straight, what rubbish is this fool spewing"

This is how you make people feel. I really doubt I am the only one who has felt this way before. And when you go after peoples posts that seem incomplete to you, it is probably just a post that isnt fully explained or articulated. Some things are pretty complex, and when you first think of them, it is hard to present the idea fully in its entirety especially when youre going from memory, or instinct, or a past experience that is pointing you to that line of thinking.

I dont always explain it fully at the time because its very raw, or yea, sometimes it probably does have some logic flaw to it. But there are also times where I get confused about who is being talked about like with the worcej being coached in daychat stuff.

[Chaqa]

Ah, so as I suggested before, you probably don’t understand the game or why your approach is suboptimal (or you want town to act suboptimally).

It's a role madness game where everyone doesn't know their role. The rest is just unimportant until we have some actual results.

There’s this great idea out there about how we can get the most informative results.

[BobMcBob]

Balancing out wagons, same reasons I scumread you before.

The fact that I voted for fisch? Were you feeling less convinced by the sweet wagon or did you just want to keep the wagons even? Did you notice worcej had moved his vote?

When I looked at the bot it was sweet 4 Bob 2 and I was comfortable with both wagons so I wanted to see what might occur by tying them to give future VCA.

Okay, I suspected you thought worc was still on the wagon. I'm not sure what I've gained from probing this.

[foodcoats]

This is why this is bad line of reasoning.

Scum clearly prefer town would not mass claim.

However, scum will also likely either be pro-mass claim in the thread or remain silent, specifically because of this whole debate.

NICE!!! WE AGREE!!! TOWN SHOULD MASS CLAIM BECAUSE IT IS BEST FOR TOWN!!! YEAH BUDDY!!!

[brainbomb]

Jamie,

I said IF YOU WERE MAFIA, you would maybe be unable to vote for Will because multiple mafia, maybe even your entire mafia team is already voting for Will and you wanted to avoid having all of the mafia on the same wagon.

OR, none of the mafia was on Will at all, and you savored such an option and chose to keep it devoid of any additional mafia.

these are both things you would think about if you were scum there. you cant tell me you arent aware enough to even think about what you maybe wouldve done if you were mafia.

So if I am scum you theorise that at least 2 of my team mates are in the pool of:

Diplomacy&Warfare
foodcoats
bozotheclown
Hamilton Brian
brainbomb
babyspice666

That's interesting because I am inclined to scumread like one of those people max.

This is probably a wise direction to turn this conversation, sure. So you dont scumread most of the voters on Justaguy. Thats a good starter topic.

So, you didnt have issues with Wills voters at the time you voted for lfischl.

Was there any feeling of missing out, being able to vote alongside a large tract of players you dont actively think are scum?

or were you null on that wagons members?

Tell me how you felt about those wagon members -pre flip

[BunnyGo]

Well if this isnt the most ironic thing ive ever seen.

Not the same thing.

I am saying that in the case of Bunny's present nonsense, he was focusing on my post and ignoring the conversation.

You, meanwhile, often expect people to read your mind. I would rather not delve into that swamp.

I expect people to do some leg work and have a basic modicum of making logical inferences. something you consistently fail to do after 8 years of playing the game. if it isnt spelled out in bloody detail for you with diagrams, pictures, graphs and quotes you become this wookie in the thread flailing around about how everything is so confusing.

I DID spell it out for him. He ignored it. Accused ME of not reading. Then continued ignoring it and asked me to write it all again to fill up the thread EVEN MORE.

[Chaqa]

This is why this is bad line of reasoning.

Scum clearly prefer town would not mass claim.

However, scum will also likely either be pro-mass claim in the thread or remain silent, specifically because of this whole debate.

NICE!!! WE AGREE!!! TOWN SHOULD MASS CLAIM BECAUSE IT IS BEST FOR TOWN!!! YEAH BUDDY!!!

I'm still not gonna go along with your plan

[Jamiet99uk]

Alright. I accept you the way you are. Ive been having to "deal" with you all these years doing this same routine to me over and over. And yet we keep doing this anyway.

Then maybe the next time I ask you to provide a simple clarification, you could just answer me, instead of insisting on having a screaming match?

That would be nice.

I think its the tone of how you dismiss peoples ideas that is very off putting. It comes off as sardonic, like an appeal to audience:

"look see how stupid this post is, he cant even keep the facts straight, what rubbish is this fool spewing"

Actually I have tried to be quite polite.

You are adding words like "rubbish" and "fool" that I absolutely did not use in our debate. I even apologised to you more than once if you found my questioning offensive, because it was not my intention.

I do think you are inclined to have a thin skin and to think I am insulting you, when I am not.

This is how you make people feel. I really doubt I am the only one who has felt this way before. And when you go after peoples posts that seem incomplete to you, it is probably just a post that isnt fully explained or articulated. Some things are pretty complex, and when you first think of them, it is hard to present the idea fully in its entirety especially when youre going from memory, or instinct, or a past experience that is pointing you to that line of thinking.

Yes I get that it wasn't fully explained or articulated. That is why I ask you to explain or articulate! You often respond by shouting at me and assuming I have bad motives, while at the same time refusing to explain or articulate until I repeatedly press you.

Again, we could avoid a lot of this if, when I ask you to clarify your position on something, you simply provide that clarification instead of saying HOW DARE YOU!?!?!

[BunnyGo]

I don't want to choose someone I strongly townread in case I have a negative effect. I plan to choose brain because he's the highest volume poster.

If I get a scan that indicates him as scum, the game thread becomes shorter and easier to read, and if it indicates him as town, it means I should actually pay attention to what he says.

If it kills him, see the first point.

how would your night action on me kill me instantly if there is no town killing action?

TBH I just assumed role madness would have at least one or two killing roles. I haven't actually read the role list.

Go read my recent post where I explain how to figure out who you are and what to do when you figure it out.

[Chaqa]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

[brainbomb]

Jamie,

I said IF YOU WERE MAFIA, you would maybe be unable to vote for Will because multiple mafia, maybe even your entire mafia team is already voting for Will and you wanted to avoid having all of the mafia on the same wagon.

OR, none of the mafia was on Will at all, and you savored such an option and chose to keep it devoid of any additional mafia.

these are both things you would think about if you were scum there. you cant tell me you arent aware enough to even think about what you maybe wouldve done if you were mafia.

So if I am scum you theorise that at least 2 of my team mates are in the pool of:

Diplomacy&Warfare
foodcoats
bozotheclown
Hamilton Brian
brainbomb
babyspice666

That's interesting because I am inclined to scumread like one of those people max.

This is probably a wise direction to turn this conversation, sure. So you dont scumread most of the voters on Justaguy. Thats a good starter topic.

So, you didnt have issues with Wills voters at the time you voted for lfischl.

Was there any feeling of missing out, being able to vote alongside a large tract of players you dont actively think are scum?

or were you null on that wagons members?

Tell me how you felt about those wagon members -pre flip

Heres a substantive post for you to focus on Jamie.

[brainbomb]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

Do you want to see his answers to my question regarding his opinions of the voters on Will?

[BobMcBob]

Okay, I’ll rephrase. Do you think scum will ENCOURAGE or DISCOURAGE mass claiming?

Probably both. Particularly when the massclaim is not a clear path to town victory, I see no reason why the scumteam would willingly place themselves all on one or the other side of this debate.

Okay, but what outcome do you think scum would prefer?

I would think the massclaim. CC's tend to be worrying as scum and this has the potential to generate some, if rather slowly. Although tbh, they'd probably prefer a botched massclaim attempt. It gives them more information about people's roles while putting them at very little risk of getting CC'd, as Kak noted in his simulation earlier (I think). I don't like the way this is headed.

[Chaqa]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

Do you want to see his answers to my question regarding his opinions of the voters on Will?

Not really. Asking people questions is kinda moot when they can just lie.

[brainbomb]

So you dont care how Jamie reads the players on a wagon where town died?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

Okay.

I've made myself a nice mug of maple tea.

[BobMcBob]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

Do you want to see his answers to my question regarding his opinions of the voters on Will?

Not really. Asking people questions is kinda moot when they can just lie.

Hang on, if you aren't massclaiming or asking questions, what are you doing? There's value in forcing people to lie.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie,

I said IF YOU WERE MAFIA, you would maybe be unable to vote for Will because multiple mafia, maybe even your entire mafia team is already voting for Will and you wanted to avoid having all of the mafia on the same wagon.

OR, none of the mafia was on Will at all, and you savored such an option and chose to keep it devoid of any additional mafia.

these are both things you would think about if you were scum there. you cant tell me you arent aware enough to even think about what you maybe wouldve done if you were mafia.

So if I am scum you theorise that at least 2 of my team mates are in the pool of:

Diplomacy&Warfare
foodcoats
bozotheclown
Hamilton Brian
brainbomb
babyspice666

That's interesting because I am inclined to scumread like one of those people max.

This is probably a wise direction to turn this conversation, sure. So you dont scumread most of the voters on Justaguy. Thats a good starter topic.

So, you didnt have issues with Wills voters at the time you voted for lfischl.

Was there any feeling of missing out, being able to vote alongside a large tract of players you dont actively think are scum?

or were you null on that wagons members?

Tell me how you felt about those wagon members -pre flip

I am happy to do that:

Diplomacy&Warfare - Null
foodcoats - Town
bozotheclown - Town
Hamilton Brian - Oh Jeebus he can't have drawn scum again, can he?
brainbomb - Lean town
babyspice666 - Yikes, why did you tie it??

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie/brain: why don't we take a break and resume this discussion in the day phase when we have more to work with?

Do you want to see his answers to my question regarding his opinions of the voters on Will?

Not really. Asking people questions is kinda moot when they can just lie.

This explains a great deal about your approach to the game.