Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[BobMcBob]

lfischl - what do you think sweet's scumtell is? Did you actually pick up on one?

[BobMcBob]

damo you put a placeholder vote on sweet and then never moved it. You later said that sweet was your strongest scumread. Toward the end of the day, when asked who you would shoot, you said sweet (or frog). No reasoning was given in either case. What was your reasoning behind your read on sweet?

[Frogsterking]

Bob why are you analyzing the sweet wagon?

[Frogsterking]

I thought you helped come up with the idea for this game. Why do you think in a game where every player is a PR that we should not try to use that to our advantage?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main gimmick of this setup is that nobody knows what they are. I have a suspicion that this may have been to directly combat mech clears while still having a lot of silly roles. Also I just don't like D1 mechs discussion. Mostly that.

aren't there some maf-roles that 'eff' with PR roles? *looks* hmm, well, there is one kinda RB, and the rest are information gain roles. So ok, the potential isn't too great.

Still, one role which blocks and that could lead to a chain reaction so people don't get their supposed information (like, if the rb hit a role that scans a role, but that person was targeted by a role that returns what their target gets, and so on). If mafia knows what town generally plans, there are ways for them to manipulate.

We should be very cautious for any big plans that are complicated. I would prefer if everyone decides for themselves as that would also show us their thought process (at least partially), but if we decide to make a plan for all of us, then it should be one that is fool proof and doesn't let mafia much room for manipulations (well I doubt there will be none, but I haven't thought it through so maybe there is).

This really isn't a great post

[damo666]

Bozo is correct. @Jamie to select someone to select up or down.

Back in 6 to 7 hours.

[Jamiet99uk]

JamieT!

I choose DOWN.

So the list is as follows:

<Snip>
------------

Okay? Is that right, and are we clear?

This is doubly wrong.

Firstly 4 determines the gap not the start point which achieved fuck all. So 4 means 10 targets 6 if up and 14 if down.

Secondly not up to Jamie to choose up down but nominate a person so to choose.

This gives a four person ladder and adequate protection against scum manipulation.

I do not understand.

First - what "gap" are you talking about?

Second - Foodcoats nominated me, so I chose up or down, that was how it was stated.

You are confusing me Damo.

[Jamiet99uk]

Wait a minute:

Why did there happen to be a discrep with the bot and our final numbers?

Looking at the final vote count that Monarch posted, lfischl is on Just but the bot shows their vote on BK3K. What's up with that?

JustAGuyNamedWill (7) Diplomacy&Warfare, foodcoats, bozotheclown, Hamilton Brian, brainbomb, babyspice666, lfischl
BK3K (5) Frogsterking, BobMcBob, Kakarroto, JustAGuyNamedWill
sweetandcool (2) damo666, BunnyGo
lfischl (3) Chaqa, heartthrob24909, Jamiet99uk
Kakarroto (1) Nephthys
Diplomacy&Warfare (1) BK3K
Frogsterking (1) sweetandcool
Chaqa (1) worcej

Because the GM posted the "PLEASE HOLD" message about 30 seconds after the timer the bot uses decided the phase had ended.

The GM chose to accept all votes up to "PLEASE HOLD" including my vote for Lfischl, and Lfischl's vote for Will. Speaking as a regular GM, this is the correct adjudication.

Thanks for the clarification. So, does this mean that the vote from babyspice shouldn't be looked on with suspicion, or it's still up there? Am I making something out of nothing?

Well, her vote would have tied it, if the GM had said "PLEASE HOLD" 30 seconds sooner...

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm assuming that when I go to check Hamilton Brian's past D1 town games they're going to look completely different than the D1 they just played.

I can't remember the last time Hamilton was town, he seems to have a knack of rolling scum a lot.

[Jamiet99uk]

This is doubly wrong.

Firstly 4 determines the gap not the start point which achieved fuck all. So 4 means 10 targets 6 if up and 14 if down.

Secondly not up to Jamie to choose up down but nominate a person so to choose.

This gives a four person ladder and adequate protection against scum manipulation.

I did wonder about that.

Over to Jamie to nominate, then.
[/quote]

I wanted to do Bozo's method and I thought this was a variant on that method.

What "gap" is Damo talking about? I don't get it.

Can someone explain the methodology?

It looks like several people are refusing to participate anyway so the whole thing is likely screwed up.

[Jamiet99uk]

So currently Bob, Chaqa and lfischl are vocally opposed to trying to coordinate our roles to get information because it “isn’t fun.” I find that really strange… maybe I’m just a competitive person? Do most of you not care about trying to win? Why play?

They are a combination of obstinate morons and/or scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

So currently Bob, Chaqa and lfischl are vocally opposed to trying to coordinate our roles to get information because it “isn’t fun.” I find that really strange… maybe I’m just a competitive person? Do most of you not care about trying to win? Why play?

If I wanted to solve a formula, I'd be playing Excel.

Logic puzzles are an inherent part of the game of Mafia.

If you don't like that, may I suggest Mario Kart?

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't think Drunk Bunny (TM) has come to play since I left lockdown....this si nice throwback

Or a nice little cabaret act by Scum!Bungo....

[Kakarroto]

So we are allowed to talk during night?

yes, there is also the tradition of posting EoN thoughts, just in case of being the nk target.

Though not all follow that tradition and people who normally do them sometimes forget to do them. I'm usually one who do them, even when I'm kinda low-target of mafia usually, since it also can be a thing to let others see where you stand and having more people do so might catch one or two mafia.

but feel free to not post any EoN thoughts/read lists

[Kakarroto]

@damo:

Still catching up. Putting kids to bed. Upshot is 3 concerns:

1) scum will have game solved much faster and know powers to target before we benefit

2) if scum have influence over choice of order they can manipulate things

So I don’t mind the plan so much but would like to add some crypto:

1) use math so nobody chooses the order
2) when you announce your results:

If you got fail, then announce
Otherwise announce both your real result and a result you cannot possibly get. So if you die, we know your real result.

This allows town to solve, while hiding from scum who is who.

Modifications likely good, but the idea of encrypting results is important.

concern 2) should be pretty easily deterred by the random choosing effect, I think

I like the sound of putting out more than one result. Very much so.

[Kakarroto]

Directed PR-actions D1 over free-for-all?

YEA: bozo, damo, Jamie

NEY:

??? (explain below):

=====

(3/19 voted)

(also I'm soon in my bed, so I wouldn't mind someone else keeping track)

Calling them "directed PR actions" obscures the fact that you can't even properly direct your own action because you don't know what it is and you won't be able to determine what the results mean without cross-referencing. Read the setup and think about it!

wat? What did you put into your food? I think I named it in a pretty neutral way that doesn't misrepresent it, given I thought about the naming only for a couple of seconds. That post feels totally out of the world. What a very strange thing to hang on.

[Kakarroto]

I prefer Kak's proposal where I get to be involved or something.

well, that's great to hear. I picked you two since I think you two are town. Even if one of you is mafia, the other one should be town. Also I think that most if not all peeps in here are on the same wavelength here, that at least one of you has to be town and mafia wont be able, or at least not easily, manipulate it, let alone get an advantage out of it

[Kakarroto]

...and a person?

JamieT!

I choose DOWN.

So the list is as follows:

4 bozotheclown

targets

5 Brainbomb

targets

6 BunnyGo

targets

7 Chaqa

targets

8 Damo666

targets

9 Diplomacy&Warfare

targets

10 foodcoats

targets

11 Frogsterking

targets

12 Hamilton Brian

targets

13 heartthrob24909

targets

14 Jamiet99uk

targets

15 Kakarroto

targets

16 lfischl

targets

17 Nephthys

targets

18 sweetandcool

targets

19 Worcej

targets

1 babyspice666

targets

2 BK3K

targets

3 BobMcBob

targets

4 Bozotheclown
------------

Okay? Is that right, and are we clear?

nah, I'm pretty sure you did a wrong. You just posted the normal thing bozo suggested, just with a different beginning, but it doesn't change the outcome. Its supposed to count four down, right? As a target. So if we take the list (and remove poor will from there) it looks like this:

babyspice666
BK3K
BobMcBob
bozotheclown
Brainbomb
BunnyGo
Chaqa
Damo666
Diplomacy&Warfare
foodcoats
Frogsterking
Hamilton Brian
heartthrob24909
Jamiet99uk
Kakarroto
lfischl
Nephthys
sweetandcool
Worcej

starting at the top, babyspice would target brainbomb; BK3K targets Bunny; jumping down, you would target sweet and I worcej. For those below, they count down and continue counting down from the top after exceeding the limit, so lfischl would target babyspice, Nephthys would target BK3K and so on

should look like this:

babyspice666 → brainbomb
BK3K → BunnyGo
BobMcBob → Chaqa
bozotheclown → damo666
Brainbomb → Diplomacy&Warfare
BunnyGo → foodcoats
Chaqa → Frogsterking
Damo666 → Hamilton Brian
Diplomacy&Warfare → heartthrob24909
foodcoats → Jamiet99uk
Frogsterking → Kakarroto
Hamilton Brian → lfischl
heartthrob24909 → Nephthys
Jamiet99uk → sweetandcool
Kakarroto → worcej
lfischl → babyspice666
Nephthys → BK3K
sweetandcool → BobMcBob
Worcej → bozotheclown

that is, if we even going to follow that plan

[Kakarroto]

/snip

please explain what do you find here so disgusting, preferable in the english language

Inherently D1 is a semi-blind shot. There is often little of objectively analyse, yes we hit town more than mafia. However we can then analyse the wagons etc with our first piece of objective evidence. In a role madness where we never really know our own actions, I would argue that we need all the objective information we can get. Another reason why I find anyone that wants to kill a lurker today inherently scummy

not wrong with information gain about how the wagons go and stuff, BUT you overlook one thing: not going for lurkers/low participants hurts town, especially in the long run. If they don't send information, then we can't read them properly, right? They just hang back and have them there, sitting grinning (at least some of them) and we don't know much about them and have used up most or all of our misvotes. Now what?!?

Another thing, if we de-incentivize people playing that way by going for lurkers/low participants early, it's becoming a less viable strategy for mafia. It might be incredible long term, but game after game after game, lurking/low posting mafia stop using this strategy, forced to come up sending information or get weeded out.

This way, we get rid of weak town and easily hidden mafia. We get MORE information over the game and the potential for future games increases. If we pile on this, game after game, we get added interest, maybe even a game with no lurker/low participant. How about that? Wouldn't that sound fun?

(ok maybe not for the people who already complain about reading a few pages, but still, it is the opposite of not wanting to gain information)

Also, it's not we don't get no information by going for lurkers; we still get the vote progression and reasoning from people that can be connected to the flip.

Sure, it might be a little less RIGHT NOW ON D1, but that also keeps high poster in the game which increases information for the next phase and for town that is a big positive.

You might not like it, and honestly, I don't love it either, but weeding out weak or low intensity players on D1 isn't bad for town and overall not a bad strategy.

[Kakarroto]

JamieT!

I choose DOWN.

So the list is as follows:

4 bozotheclown

targets

5 Brainbomb

targets

6 BunnyGo

targets

7 Chaqa

targets

8 Damo666

targets

9 Diplomacy&Warfare

targets

10 foodcoats

targets

11 Frogsterking

targets

12 Hamilton Brian

targets

13 heartthrob24909

targets

14 Jamiet99uk

targets

15 Kakarroto

targets

16 lfischl

targets

17 Nephthys

targets

18 sweetandcool

targets

19 Worcej

targets

1 babyspice666

targets

2 BK3K

targets

3 BobMcBob

targets

4 Bozotheclown
------------

Okay? Is that right, and are we clear?

This is doubly wrong.

Firstly 4 determines the gap not the start point which achieved fuck all. So 4 means 10 targets 6 if up and 14 if down.

Secondly not up to Jamie to choose up down but nominate a person so to choose.

This gives a four person ladder and adequate protection against scum manipulation.

ohh, I see. So depending on the person Jamie chooses, the target list could also be this (if chosen up):

babyspice666 → lfischl
BK3K → Nephthys
BobMcBob → sweetandcool
bozotheclown → worcej
Brainbomb → babyspice666
BunnyGo → BK3K
Chaqa → BobMcBob
Damo666 → bozotheclown
Diplomacy&Warfare → brainbomb
foodcoats → BunnyGo
Frogsterking → Chaqa
Hamilton Brian → damo666
heartthrob24909 → Diplomacy&Warfare
Jamiet99uk → foodcoats
Kakarroto → Frogsterking
lfischl → Hamilton Brian
Nephthys → heartthrob24909
sweetandcool → Jamiet99uk
Worcej → Kakarroto

if I'm not wrong, that is?

[Kakarroto]

From the Maf Qt

BK3k: Okay I think brain might be the cop, and worcej is probably the doctor

Jamie: No. Everyone has no idea what their role is. It is very specific.

Bk3k: But they might be those roles

Jamie: Utter rubbish. absolute poppycock. Complete bullshit.

Damo: Jamie keep fighting with brain and find something to get under his skin about.

Jamie: Utter rubbish, brainbomb isnt real. He is just an AI generated by elon musk.

Bk3k: Who should we kill

Jamie: Utter rubbish. the idea that we should kill someone is absolute bullshit and complete poppycock

Bold of you to assume I have a guess on anyone’s role. I’ve hardly read half the posts

if you read this and haven't read the rest of the game, I dare you to reread the whole game and get opinionated!