Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Kakarroto]

I understand this position and have heard it expressed numerous times before, but in my opinion town should do whatever optimizes their chance of winning. Also, the setup is complex so it is not obvious if there is a problem with it, but if there is, as I suspect, the only way to know is to test it by using anything available to us to our advantage.

What about the information that mafia gains by everyone claiming plus everyone knowing everyones target? And using that to systematically removing the biggest PR threats?

I think it's fine to share information that happened to you, like "I was roleblocked" or "someone send me a mail", but sharing these on top with everyone knowing who did it just endangers easily confirmed PR's

Yes, matching players with their roles provides information to the mafia to use for the NKs, but if we match enough players with their roles fast enough, it will not matter. I think it is very likely we will be able gain information at a rate that the mafia will not be able to keep up. I also considered that a no-kill D1 could be to town's advantage, because it does not cost us a mis-kill unless there is a doctor save, and has the potential to delay our last available mis-kill by a day, which would give us more time to sort roles.

@Nephthis I guess you need to add bozo to your maf list now

[worcej]

Wow, this vote spread is interesting…

##vote brainbomb

This is a mercy vote for the father-to-be and will quell the fighting. I don’t have a strong town read on BB either - he’s doing his normal painting of thoughts and being slightly weird about my different thoughts on frog.

[foodcoats]

##VOTE BobMcBob

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Some random, unfiltered thoughts:

Jamie seems fine, I am not very good at reading if his craziness is intentional or just town

Frog is weird. I like him, but I don’t think his play translates well to my sense of mafia activity.

BK is all over the place. May vote at some point later on, idk.

[bozotheclown]

enforcing everyone to comply like making everyone go one down the list has another disadvantage, it sucks the fun out of the game. I was lucky enough to get town and now I know I'm PR, and I want to use it how I think is best, try to choose my target and live the best live, since I haven't gotten lucky in any games in a long, long while, regarding PR status (and the dancing ship doesn't really count, since I was being ignored anyway because everyone was that low power). The last game I can remember was the one I was gunsmith and gave the gun to a mafia, and bo_sox stole the show anyway.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Chaqa implied he is looking forward to the role madness and would probably not engage in the game as much as if he had free reign. Well that is, if he is town. Anyway, I'm not alone, I think, and others would probably engage more if they have the freedom to discover their role.

Maybe there is an optimal mechanical play for N1; I'm very doubtful it would be the optimal play if we consider fun into it.

I am sort of agreeing with this. I signed up to get to be a PR and use my actions in a creative way that might help town win. telling me what to do robs me of
my possibility of chance and making a brilliant decision.

How can you make a good decision N1 when you have no idea what your role is? I am not suggested we do the same thing every night.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

More random thoughts:

Don’t know why Dip&War is so quiet. Would’ve thought there would be more movement from them.

I really don’t like damo in this game. Just feels so off. Can’t pinpoint why, just a feeling

[sweetandcool]

If bozo usually does the mech stuff at the beginning of D1 then I think the timing of when they're bring it up now is +scum. If we don't trust bozo but like their idea then we can always inverse their plan by targeting the preceding living player on the master list.

I actually agree with this. Why did Bozo not talk about it sooner? Now it just seems like a confusing distraction.

For the record, I agree with worcej. Last game ended up being mech heavy and in hindsight it really did kill the fun. We just won with mechs, no proper hunting was done.

[Kakarroto]

I understand this position and have heard it expressed numerous times before, but in my opinion town should do whatever optimizes their chance of winning. Also, the setup is complex so it is not obvious if there is a problem with it, but if there is, as I suspect, the only way to know is to test it by using anything available to us to our advantage.

What about the information that mafia gains by everyone claiming plus everyone knowing everyones target? And using that to systematically removing the biggest PR threats?

I think it's fine to share information that happened to you, like "I was roleblocked" or "someone send me a mail", but sharing these on top with everyone knowing who did it just endangers easily confirmed PR's

Yes, matching players with their roles provides information to the mafia to use for the NKs, but if we match enough players with their roles fast enough, it will not matter. I think it is very likely we will be able gain information at a rate that the mafia will not be able to keep up. I also considered that a no-kill D1 could be to town's advantage, because it does not cost us a mis-kill unless there is a doctor save, and has the potential to delay our last available mis-kill by a day, which would give us more time to sort roles.

anyway, I see your point, I think though, personally, that we really shouldn't dive too deep into fixed actions and rob the game of fun.

I would however not lay bricks in our way and would comply if the majority is prefering your way. I'm also a bit concerned that you are mafia and thought of a way to manipulate this system, but that can be dealt with later and if we decide as a group at least I have the others to blame

[bozotheclown]

Are you both not sharing what you think the tell is so that you can continue to use it in future games if you are correct?

If I had a tell on anyone I would not reveal. I think that is reasonable.

I might reveal my tell in the GT. It’s stupid. And if accurate, I both want sweet to stop it AND am not sure he can.

Damo has seemed less bored as scum lately though. So…maybe I should stop revealing my tells.

If you plan on revealing it anyway, is there a reason not to tell us what you think it is?

[BunnyGo]

If I had a tell on anyone I would not reveal. I think that is reasonable.

I might reveal my tell in the GT. It’s stupid. And if accurate, I both want sweet to stop it AND am not sure he can.

Damo has seemed less bored as scum lately though. So…maybe I should stop revealing my tells.

If you plan on revealing it anyway, is there a reason not to tell us what you think it is?

It's not very nice. Don't want to say in game.

[sweetandcool]

I might reveal my tell in the GT. It’s stupid. And if accurate, I both want sweet to stop it AND am not sure he can.

Damo has seemed less bored as scum lately though. So…maybe I should stop revealing my tells.

If you plan on revealing it anyway, is there a reason not to tell us what you think it is?

It's not very nice. Don't want to say in game.

That's nice of you. If a bit frustrating because you are guaranteeing that I am the DK, and I am town.

[foodcoats]

Some random, unfiltered thoughts:

Jamie seems fine, I am not very good at reading if his craziness is intentional or just town

Frog is weird. I like him, but I don’t think his play translates well to my sense of mafia activity.

BK is all over the place. May vote at some point later on, idk.

What made you change your stance on Frog? If he does not seem mafia to you, why are you voting for him?

[Kakarroto]

hmm

as a master PR hunter, @worcej, I want to know what you think of bozo's suggestion.

If you were mafia, would you trade being hemmed in with your actions from town for getting better PR information? Would you prefer that everyone decides for themselves? Do you think the N1 actions from bozo could lead to an unclimbable information advantage for town?

[bozotheclown]

If bozo usually does the mech stuff at the beginning of D1 then I think the timing of when they're bring it up now is +scum. If we don't trust bozo but like their idea then we can always inverse their plan by targeting the preceding living player on the master list.

We could assign the targets in any number of random ways if you are suspicious of my specific suggestion.

[bozotheclown]

If bozo usually does the mech stuff at the beginning of D1 then I think the timing of when they're bring it up now is +scum. If we don't trust bozo but like their idea then we can always inverse their plan by targeting the preceding living player on the master list.

I actually agree with this. Why did Bozo not talk about it sooner? Now it just seems like a confusing distraction.

For the record, I agree with worcej. Last game ended up being mech heavy and in hindsight it really did kill the fun. We just won with mechs, no proper hunting was done.

Talk about what sooner? I believe I expressed my opinion in the first post I made in the game.

[BunnyGo]

If you plan on revealing it anyway, is there a reason not to tell us what you think it is?

It's not very nice. Don't want to say in game.

That's nice of you. If a bit frustrating because you are guaranteeing that I am the DK, and I am town.

So...go contribute while you can. Nobody has to believe me and my stupid idea. But I've also seen only two posts from you that were remotely towny.

[foodcoats]

If you plan on revealing it anyway, is there a reason not to tell us what you think it is?

It's not very nice. Don't want to say in game.

That's nice of you. If a bit frustrating because you are guaranteeing that I am the DK, and I am town.

Who do you think are the towniest players at the moment sweet?

[Kakarroto]

If bozo usually does the mech stuff at the beginning of D1 then I think the timing of when they're bring it up now is +scum. If we don't trust bozo but like their idea then we can always inverse their plan by targeting the preceding living player on the master list.

I actually agree with this. Why did Bozo not talk about it sooner? Now it just seems like a confusing distraction.

For the record, I agree with worcej. Last game ended up being mech heavy and in hindsight it really did kill the fun. We just won with mechs, no proper hunting was done.

well, this is highly speculative, but in case bozo is mafia, he could've suggested something like this late after seeing the list of people; MadMonarch didn't put a list of participants up, but only on ... I think page 3? 4? after I've requested it.

Maybe, in this speculative case, bozo saw a combination of mafia in such a row/position that could manipulate it in some way? Maybe something that could make them easily fake a PR read?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Last game bozo got right into mechs. This game he didn’t.

Frogster is still my #1 mafia candidate, but…

##VOTE BOZO

Suspicious man

[sweetandcool]

It's not very nice. Don't want to say in game.

That's nice of you. If a bit frustrating because you are guaranteeing that I am the DK, and I am town.

Who do you think are the towniest players at the moment sweet?

Nobody. I keep feeling paranoid about everyone except my null reads.

Even feeling paranoia about brainbomb.