Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Jamiet99uk]

If it is mechanically best play to remove all decision making from players hands then you would want to decide who to coordinate all powers on and what the goal of that is, is it to maybe get a guilty scan?

I like Bozo's plan better than this.

Maybe I dont fully understand bozos plan but isnt the plan to just send all of us to the same place so scum cant coordinate anything?

No. No it is not.

It is to have everyone target the next person up from themselves, alphabetically, on the (surviving) player list. Like your N1 target would be BunnyGo, mine would be JustWill, etc.

[bozotheclown]

enforcing everyone to comply like making everyone go one down the list has another disadvantage, it sucks the fun out of the game. I was lucky enough to get town and now I know I'm PR, and I want to use it how I think is best, try to choose my target and live the best live, since I haven't gotten lucky in any games in a long, long while, regarding PR status (and the dancing ship doesn't really count, since I was being ignored anyway because everyone was that low power). The last game I can remember was the one I was gunsmith and gave the gun to a mafia, and bo_sox stole the show anyway.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Chaqa implied he is looking forward to the role madness and would probably not engage in the game as much as if he had free reign. Well that is, if he is town. Anyway, I'm not alone, I think, and others would probably engage more if they have the freedom to discover their role.

Maybe there is an optimal mechanical play for N1; I'm very doubtful it would be the optimal play if we consider fun into it.

I understand this position and have heard it expressed numerous times before, but in my opinion town should do whatever optimizes their chance of winning. Also, the setup is complex so it is not obvious if there is a problem with it, but if there is, as I suspect, the only way to know is to test it by using anything available to us to our advantage.

[Kakarroto]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

You’re misunderstanding… read this…

Interesting point about being coached. I don’t see that it was ever specified that there is daychat.

You get a scum point.

Is there a daychat?

That would change my read entirely.

Worcej assumes Frog COULD be coached in a way we would not see.

Got’em.

I don't understand.

"Because he’s figuring out player styles at an impressive level and is not possibly being coached at this point."

"Because he’s not possibly being coached at this point."

"he's not being coached"

maybe it's an 'english second language' thing, but at no point I would read out here that worcej assumes that a hidden coaching is happening.

I would read here that worcej is 100% sure that NO coaching is happening, maybe a bit too sure so I could see an angle here that worcej knows without doubt (and without the rules stating it, as food claims, haven't checked it myself) that there is no day chat and that could give him maf points, but that's not what food is saying. Right?

[BunnyGo]

well, not every PR has the same power level. There are PR roles that are pretty useless (like the one that tells you who your target voted last day). So I thought that mafia would hunt for PR's with the highest power

Oh…just noting this for later. Really really don’t want to discuss mechs with 3.5 hours left in D1.

But this reminds me of the game where two people (or more) have partial information about assigned numbers. And take turns saying “I don’t know my number” until that’s enough information for someone to say “I know my number”

Okay, so let’s talk people. I think worcej scumslipped about daychat. I’ve PMed our esteemed GMs because it is not documented in the rules that there is daychat and daychat is normally a “special condition” to Mafia if I’m not mistaken. Assuming there is daychat, you said that I misinterpreted worcej’s statement about Frog being coached. Worcej has not had a chance to say what he “really meant,” and I’d like him to respond first, but he’s not here. What do you think Frog “being coached” could’ve meant?

Go reread. He said “[frog] has not possibly being coached at this point”

This means something very different than the rabbit hole you went down.

Stay out of rabbit holes. Those are mine.

[Jamiet99uk]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

Frog did not mention coaching.

Worcej did.

Worcej is from this forum.

No but if you read frogs defenses of chaqa and his awareness of how chaqa plays- and his explanations I find the defenses to be pretty out there. hes claiming its normal for players to just chaqa their way thru day 1 and that hes seen it regularly.

I thought the point of this topic was to dicuss if frog was being coached in a day chat or if chaqa was being coached in a day chat. that was also part of the topic

Nobody is being coached in a Day Chat.

If there was a Day Chat the setup would mention it.

[sweetandcool]

I've seen that opener like half a dozen times before and it always draws early suspicion and the slot has always flipped town once it gets run up. Maybe this is the game that a scum slot decided to "chaqa it up" but I'm not going to bet on it.

At the risk of defending scum, I think he just meant that he had seen chaqa-like behavior before from other players in other games. His description of "chaqa it up" is just unfortunate because it makes it sound like he knows chaqa's style when they've never played together before.

[worcej]

Because he’s figuring out player styles at an impressive level and is not possibly being coached at this point.

He’s firmly in my don’t kill D1 list due to the level of deeper reading I am seeing.

To be fair, worcej, he has posted a LOT of reads that are unconfirmed

Worcej can you provide examples of the deeper level reading?

The fact he actually figured out Chaqa.

The fact he comments on my style, which many people have pointed at as sounding scummy over many games.

He seems to be really reviewing each person more than just surface level stuff - trying to analyze styles and has asked confirmation questions about the styles

[BunnyGo]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

Can you be very very specific for me about the coaching comment you’re referring to? I fear you’re misquoting a misquote and it’s sending you off on a bad tangent.

[brainbomb]

I like Bozo's plan better than this.

Maybe I dont fully understand bozos plan but isnt the plan to just send all of us to the same place so scum cant coordinate anything?

No. No it is not.

It is to have everyone target the next person up from themselves, alphabetically, on the (surviving) player list. Like your N1 target would be BunnyGo, mine would be JustWill, etc.

Interesting. Doesnt that just gaurantee mafia can roleblock the person below the person they want to kill and then get a gauranteed kill?

[Jamiet99uk]

Foodcoats you appear to have made a complete binary misunderstanding here, please carefully re-read the relevant posts because this is clogging up the thread with completely pointless debate about whether there is a Day Chat. I am sure there is not a Day Chat.

[brainbomb]

I've seen that opener like half a dozen times before and it always draws early suspicion and the slot has always flipped town once it gets run up. Maybe this is the game that a scum slot decided to "chaqa it up" but I'm not going to bet on it.

At the risk of defending scum, I think he just meant that he had seen chaqa-like behavior before from other players in other games. His description of "chaqa it up" is just unfortunate because it makes it sound like he knows chaqa's style when they've never played together before.

I dont mean to insult his past game experiences but why did he defend chaqa in this way so strongly - but has been unable to defend any of his other townreads in any way at all?

[sweetandcool]

To be fair, worcej, he has posted a LOT of reads that are unconfirmed

Worcej can you provide examples of the deeper level reading?

The fact he actually figured out Chaqa.

The fact he comments on my style, which many people have pointed at as sounding scummy over many games.

He seems to be really reviewing each person more than just surface level stuff - trying to analyze styles and has asked confirmation questions about the styles

I don't think he actually figured out Chaqa's style.....

[sweetandcool]

At the risk of defending scum, I think he just meant that he had seen chaqa-like behavior before from other players in other games. His description of "chaqa it up" is just unfortunate because it makes it sound like he knows chaqa's style when they've never played together before.

I dont mean to insult his past game experiences but why did he defend chaqa in this way so strongly - but has been unable to defend any of his other townreads in any way at all?

Probably because I'm about to be the DK.

[brainbomb]

he also said as mafia he avoids the game thread once hes suspected and hes mostly vanished since I started pushing him

[babyspice666]

Hi everyone!! Sorry for the late post, just getting caught up on everything now. going to take me a bit to read it all but ill post my thoughts once I've gone through the pages

[worcej]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main gimmick of this setup is that nobody knows what they are. I have a suspicion that this may have been to directly combat mech clears while still having a lot of silly roles. Also I just don't like D1 mechs discussion. Mostly that.

Right, so the only way to get useful information is to identify everyone's role, which of course also tells us who all the town players are. In my opinion, the fastest way to identify everyone's role is to have everyone target a different player N1 and have everyone claim their scan result, and I don't think the mafia can do a lot to obscure the results.

well this sounds simple enough.

hmm

I fear though that could give mafia very good intel, with the 'claim their scan result'. Like if they want to PR hunt, that's a pretty good sorting mechanism.

On the other hand, it wouldn't give mafia too much freedom for fake claiming stuff. Hmm. I'm not sure if it is worth the trade off. I want other people to say what they think about that.

@food
@worcej
@bunny
@jamie
@B3K3

I want you to think about that and give me your opinions and thoughts. Everyone else is welcomed too, but those five I want explicitly to answer it.

Well, lets add one more:

@Nephthys please also add your thoughts and opinion on that matter. Do you maybe have a better idea how we could proceed if there is an all encompassing plan for town?

I am not mechanically inclined to know exactly what bozo is talking about.

I’ve honestly stopped deep-reading game setups over the past several games because it was impacting my ability to play the game - i would focus on the mechanics and not the players.

[Jamiet99uk]

Maybe I dont fully understand bozos plan but isnt the plan to just send all of us to the same place so scum cant coordinate anything?

No. No it is not.

It is to have everyone target the next person up from themselves, alphabetically, on the (surviving) player list. Like your N1 target would be BunnyGo, mine would be JustWill, etc.

Interesting. Doesnt that just gaurantee mafia can roleblock the person below the person they want to kill and then get a gauranteed kill?

No, because the Mafia do not know which of them is the Roleblocker, and one of the Mafia is a Driver which would interfere with a Roleblock, I think...

[Jamiet99uk]

Hi everyone!! Sorry for the late post, just getting caught up on everything now. going to take me a bit to read it all but ill post my thoughts once I've gone through the pages

Welcome.

[bozotheclown]

we could make a list of people most likely to be scum and have half the
players use their actions on that person

and the other half all use actions on top townies in hopes of doc save

otherwise any mass coordination would ensure mafia gets off a kill n1, and I kinda like the idea that they try to kill someone and it results in a luck save

I think this would limit the information we get from the results. I think having every player be the target of some action will also be helpful.

[Frogsterking]

I'm assuming bob isn't usually a universal scum read?