Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Jamiet99uk]

well, not every PR has the same power level. There are PR roles that are pretty useless (like the one that tells you who your target voted last day). So I thought that mafia would hunt for PR's with the highest power

Oh…just noting this for later. Really really don’t want to discuss mechs with 3.5 hours left in D1.

But this reminds me of the game where two people (or more) have partial information about assigned numbers. And take turns saying “I don’t know my number” until that’s enough information for someone to say “I know my number”

Okay, so let’s talk people. I think worcej scumslipped about daychat. I’ve PMed our esteemed GMs because it is not documented in the rules that there is daychat and daychat is normally a “special condition” to Mafia if I’m not mistaken. Assuming there is daychat, you said that I misinterpreted worcej’s statement about Frog being coached. Worcej has not had a chance to say what he “really meant,” and I’d like him to respond first, but he’s not here. What do you think Frog “being coached” could’ve meant?

I interpreted this as Worcej assuming there was no daychat (because that is the standard approach here), and therefore commenting that Frog could not have been coached by Mafia since the first Night phase has not happened yet.

I'm not sure why you think that's a slip?

[brainbomb]

hmm so maybe worcej is just mafia here; that would make sense.

what is the team : frog-worcej-chaqa-dk3k?

[Jamiet99uk]

If it is mechanically best play to remove all decision making from players hands then you would want to decide who to coordinate all powers on and what the goal of that is, is it to maybe get a guilty scan?

I like Bozo's plan better than this.

[sweetandcool]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

You’re misunderstanding… read this…

Interesting point about being coached. I don’t see that it was ever specified that there is daychat.

You get a scum point.

Is there a daychat?

That would change my read entirely.

Worcej assumes Frog COULD be coached in a way we would not see.

Got’em.

Worcej assumes Frog COULD NOT be coached in a way we would not see.

[foodcoats]

Oh…just noting this for later. Really really don’t want to discuss mechs with 3.5 hours left in D1.

But this reminds me of the game where two people (or more) have partial information about assigned numbers. And take turns saying “I don’t know my number” until that’s enough information for someone to say “I know my number”

Okay, so let’s talk people. I think worcej scumslipped about daychat. I’ve PMed our esteemed GMs because it is not documented in the rules that there is daychat and daychat is normally a “special condition” to Mafia if I’m not mistaken. Assuming there is daychat, you said that I misinterpreted worcej’s statement about Frog being coached. Worcej has not had a chance to say what he “really meant,” and I’d like him to respond first, but he’s not here. What do you think Frog “being coached” could’ve meant?

You're making no sense. Worcej mentioned that Frog *couldn't* be coached, implying worcej believed there was no daychat for Mafia, which is what every reasonable player in this game would assume, given the rules explained in the setup

Okay, I could be wrong here. Let’s see what the GMs say about scum chat.

What is your read on worcej otherwise? What makes you feel the need to defend him?

[brainbomb]

food do you think frog is town here?

[bozotheclown]

If Jamie and brain are BOTH scum I'll eat my hat.

In fact I'd be most surprised if either are scum and I will not be surprised if one of them is tonight's kill (I'm pleading with scum to do the community a favour).



@brain @Jamie only kidding with the plea to scum!

They were both mafia in the first game I played here (M30), and I don't think their interaction was that different.

Expand on this line of thinking please.

I have found you and Jamie to be good and duplicating town behavior, including manufacturing conflicts, and I know of one example where you had a conflict that I assume was scum theater. In other words, I think it is NAI, not town indicating, as damo suggested.

[brainbomb]

If it is mechanically best play to remove all decision making from players hands then you would want to decide who to coordinate all powers on and what the goal of that is, is it to maybe get a guilty scan?

I like Bozo's plan better than this.

Maybe I dont fully understand bozos plan but isnt the plan to just send all of us to the same place so scum cant coordinate anything?

[foodcoats]

enforcing everyone to comply like making everyone go one down the list has another disadvantage, it sucks the fun out of the game. I was lucky enough to get town and now I know I'm PR, and I want to use it how I think is best, try to choose my target and live the best live, since I haven't gotten lucky in any games in a long, long while, regarding PR status (and the dancing ship doesn't really count, since I was being ignored anyway because everyone was that low power). The last game I can remember was the one I was gunsmith and gave the gun to a mafia, and bo_sox stole the show anyway.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Chaqa implied he is looking forward to the role madness and would probably not engage in the game as much as if he had free reign. Well that is, if he is town. Anyway, I'm not alone, I think, and others would probably engage more if they have the freedom to discover their role.

Maybe there is an optimal mechanical play for N1; I'm very doubtful it would be the optimal play if we consider fun into it.

I am sort of agreeing with this. I signed up to get to be a PR and use my actions in a creative way that might help town win. telling me what to do robs me of
my possibility of chance and making a brilliant decision.

You literally won’t even know your role if we don’t claim lol.

[Jamiet99uk]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

Frog did not mention coaching.

Worcej did.

Worcej is from this forum.

[foodcoats]

food do you think frog is town here?

I am actually pretty null on frog

[brainbomb]

They were both mafia in the first game I played here (M30), and I don't think their interaction was that different.

Expand on this line of thinking please.

I have found you and Jamie to be good and duplicating town behavior, including manufacturing conflicts, and I know of one example where you had a conflict that I assume was scum theater. In other words, I think it is NAI, not town indicating, as damo suggested.

Okay. I was thinking thats probably just you dismissing the logic behind his townread but I wasnt totally sure if you werent also saying im indepdently scummy and doing scum theatre with jamie

[sweetandcool]

Okay, so let’s talk people. I think worcej scumslipped about daychat. I’ve PMed our esteemed GMs because it is not documented in the rules that there is daychat and daychat is normally a “special condition” to Mafia if I’m not mistaken. Assuming there is daychat, you said that I misinterpreted worcej’s statement about Frog being coached. Worcej has not had a chance to say what he “really meant,” and I’d like him to respond first, but he’s not here. What do you think Frog “being coached” could’ve meant?

You're making no sense. Worcej mentioned that Frog *couldn't* be coached, implying worcej believed there was no daychat for Mafia, which is what every reasonable player in this game would assume, given the rules explained in the setup

Okay, I could be wrong here. Let’s see what the GMs say about scum chat.

What is your read on worcej otherwise? What makes you feel the need to defend him?

Your repeated claim that worcej said the exact opposite of what he actually said is incredibly aggravating.

Or maybe we're just paaaaaaiiiiiirrrrred.

I can never read worcej.

[brainbomb]

enforcing everyone to comply like making everyone go one down the list has another disadvantage, it sucks the fun out of the game. I was lucky enough to get town and now I know I'm PR, and I want to use it how I think is best, try to choose my target and live the best live, since I haven't gotten lucky in any games in a long, long while, regarding PR status (and the dancing ship doesn't really count, since I was being ignored anyway because everyone was that low power). The last game I can remember was the one I was gunsmith and gave the gun to a mafia, and bo_sox stole the show anyway.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Chaqa implied he is looking forward to the role madness and would probably not engage in the game as much as if he had free reign. Well that is, if he is town. Anyway, I'm not alone, I think, and others would probably engage more if they have the freedom to discover their role.

Maybe there is an optimal mechanical play for N1; I'm very doubtful it would be the optimal play if we consider fun into it.

I am sort of agreeing with this. I signed up to get to be a PR and use my actions in a creative way that might help town win. telling me what to do robs me of
my possibility of chance and making a brilliant decision.

You literally won’t even know your role if we don’t claim lol.

I think doc can be verified if no one dies and the person saved announces they were saved. and then if everyone visited other people it would eventually be known who doc was for their own sake

[foodcoats]

You're making no sense. Worcej mentioned that Frog *couldn't* be coached, implying worcej believed there was no daychat for Mafia, which is what every reasonable player in this game would assume, given the rules explained in the setup

Okay, I could be wrong here. Let’s see what the GMs say about scum chat.

What is your read on worcej otherwise? What makes you feel the need to defend him?

Your repeated claim that worcej said the exact opposite of what he actually said is incredibly aggravating.

Or maybe we're just paaaaaaiiiiiirrrrred.

I can never read worcej.

Well it is definitely not the exact opposite. That’s why we need worcej to clarify what he meant.

[brainbomb]

frogs bend over backward defense of chaqa is just weird anyway whether slip or not. the coaching comment can be explained by just being from some other forum where daychat is common maybe? frog hasnt really said where they play usually and if daychat is just normal.

I can tell you most forums have mafia day chat and it is quite commonplace.

that said I think all of that is irrelevant to just how bizarre the defense of chaqa actually was

Frog did not mention coaching.

Worcej did.

Worcej is from this forum.

No but if you read frogs defenses of chaqa and his awareness of how chaqa plays- and his explanations I find the defenses to be pretty out there. hes claiming its normal for players to just chaqa their way thru day 1 and that hes seen it regularly.

I thought the point of this topic was to dicuss if frog was being coached in a day chat or if chaqa was being coached in a day chat. that was also part of the topic

[foodcoats]

I am sort of agreeing with this. I signed up to get to be a PR and use my actions in a creative way that might help town win. telling me what to do robs me of
my possibility of chance and making a brilliant decision.

You literally won’t even know your role if we don’t claim lol.

I think doc can be verified if no one dies and the person saved announces they were saved. and then if everyone visited other people it would eventually be known who doc was for their own sake

I’m pretty sure MM said there is no “you were saved” message but let’s get confirmation?

##CALL GM

Also there are jailer roles so those could block NK.

[sweetandcool]

Okay, I could be wrong here. Let’s see what the GMs say about scum chat.

What is your read on worcej otherwise? What makes you feel the need to defend him?

Your repeated claim that worcej said the exact opposite of what he actually said is incredibly aggravating.

Or maybe we're just paaaaaaiiiiiirrrrred.

I can never read worcej.

Well it is definitely not the exact opposite. That’s why we need worcej to clarify what he meant.

He literally said that Frog could not be coached. It doesn't get much clearer.

Very bizarre you are insisting there is some ambiguity and that his statement could be construed as claiming Frog could have been coached.

[brainbomb]

I've seen that opener like half a dozen times before and it always draws early suspicion and the slot has always flipped town once it gets run up. Maybe this is the game that a scum slot decided to "chaqa it up" but I'm not going to bet on it.

[worcej]

worcej I dont know how you could read my posts and come away with that I am provoking Jamie. Im defending my reads and articulating them.

do you see my posts as instigating a conflict?

I see you and Jamie just going off on each other and I know it won’t stop until one of you is dead.