Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[brainbomb]

I fundamentally disagree that frog has produced deep reads

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I fundamentally disagree that frog has produced deep reads

Same. He has made many reads, and je probably made a few correct ones, but he just made so many for those handpicked examples to be worthy

[brainbomb]

However I think frog wagon has had 12+ hours to gain traction and it seems thats a no go.

##Vote lfischl

lfischl has gone off into hiding as I had expected

[brainbomb]

Not sure if this was asked elsewhere but
If someone gets doc saved the doctor gets a note saying success.

does the person who survives the night attack also get a notice letting them know they survived an attack?

[brainbomb]

Not sure if this was asked elsewhere but
If someone gets doc saved the doctor gets a note saying success.

does the person who survives the night attack also get a notice letting them know they survived an attack?

##Call GM

[Kakarroto]

@brain

How would it affect your reads if you assumed fish!town?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

so, do I understand you correctly here:

-) hamilton looks bad if lfischl is mafia

-) you think lfischl is mafia

-) yet you don't think hamilton is mafia? At least not enough to put him in your maf-reads?

[Kakarroto]

Alright, help me reading you correctly:

@everyone not having posted (damo and babyspice): do so, and I hope in good quality and quantity.

@B3K3 after you had a read, tell me three people who you think are most likely mafia

@diplomacy&warfare what are your thoughts of this game? You still think Will fell for sweets trap and is mafia? If so, who do you think are his accomplices?

@lfischl: if you had a gun with one bullet and HAD to choose someone or getting it yourself before the end of the day, who would you choose, and why?

if anyone else wants to answer those questions from their own perspective, feel free to do so, please just don't answer them for them.

probably BK3K because he just showed up and didn't want to read the thread, and i'd rather shoot someone who doesn't care over someone i'm not super sure about this early

hmm, I want to say that's an opt out answer, but I guess, if viewed objectively, it's a fair perspective. It lacks spicey-ness which I dislike though so no town points. Thanks for the answer though.

[brainbomb]

@brain

How would it affect your reads if you assumed fish!town?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

so, do I understand you correctly here:

-) hamilton looks bad if lfischl is mafia

-) you think lfischl is mafia

-) yet you don't think hamilton is mafia? At least not enough to put him in your maf-reads?

correct

[Kakarroto]

wanting to survive to use powers is secondary to wanting to survive to impact the game by helping identify mafia and you dont need powers to do that

but Im not gonna lecture you. most people sign up to play hoping to get a fun pr. In fact I signed up because I prefer role madness games as town tends to win them more often

but townies dying early in this is actually very helpful to town as well. sounds stupid but every flip is a positive thing for sorting

totally agree. I shortly pondered if a no-kill vote would be good, but it just loses town an opportunity to vote for a mafia AND robs town of good information before mafia could talk to each other. ESPECIALLY since mafia don't know the roles that they have, so if there is any bussing going on, I'd expect them to prefer bussing the comrade(s) they expect to perform not as good.

This post reeks so bad. In what world would town ever consider a no kill first day? We need all the information we can get... Also it deprives us a chance to kill scum.

exhibit A:

Day 1 Final Vote Count. Please PM me ASAP (webdip or discord) if there are inaccuracies.

Kakarroto (8) TheMadMonarch dargorygel worcej Chaqa damo666 Jamiet99uk JustAGuyNamedWill heartthrob24909
dargorygel (3) ghug rdrivera2005 sweetandcool
Hamilton Brian (2) bozotheclown BK3K
No‑Kill (1) Kakarroto
JustAGuyNamedWill (1) Hamilton Brian

Kakarroto is set to be exiled.

Apologies for lack of flavor text. Will make it up to you later.

Day 1 has ended.

KAKARROTO HAS DIED HE WAS VANILLA TOWN

NIGHT 1 HAS STARTED.

SCUM CHAT IS OPEN.

Vanilla Town, please be sure to PM me (and SpiritoftheRadio) your votes either on Discord or Webdip (Discord preferred by your GM...but whatever).

ESPECIALLY since mafia don't know the roles that they have, so if there is any bussing going on, I'd expect them to prefer bussing the comrade(s) they expect to perform not as good.

ewwwww
[/quote]

please explain what do you find here so disgusting, preferable in the english language

[Kakarroto]

But for real, next day we should each vote the person next in line on the player list and then ask Monarch what the vote count is so we can figure out who the lobbyist targeted and thus we can determine that the person targeted is not the Lobbyist. It isn’t much information, but it should help us out a teensy bit.

How do you all feel about this?

I don't think this works as you think, as far as I remember from glossing over the rules, the missing vote will only be shown on EoD.

Also, what would we gain by knowing who is not the lobbyist? It might help us getting to know the exact roles, but it also helps mafia. I think we should focus on getting to know the alignment of people, not their roles.

[Kakarroto]

@foodcoats

I noticed that lfischl was under heat for early D1 (and I mean VERY early) mafiaesque posts. Because I have played in 3 games in which we have killed a townie because of this reason, I went to the defense.

Using last game as an example, I was much more inclined to vote Hamilton Brian because of his midday actions. We ended up killing Kak, which was town. Hamilton Brian ended up being mafia.

I did not want the EXACT same thing to happen again. So I came to his defense

1 in 4 times, we get a mafia by that though, so statistically speaking, that would be this game and we should proceed.

No?

[Kakarroto]

How you felt about the pace of the game at gamestart

Oh that. Well it felt like not as many as usual were in the game. And, a bit hard to describe, like the posts didn't flow as it normally would, at least with so many participants. It was about an hour and a half between my posts and it was only like page three. It felt a bit like something is missing, something to fire up people, or something people can be controversial about. Maybe something to react to. So I did my endvote to see how peeps react to it.

That reminds me ##unend

still I think voting damo isn't too wrong here, he hasn't posted the whole day, don't like that.

Following on from my previous post, Kak seems intent on getting us as little info as possible...

that is a huge assumption and I would love you to show me (or better: the other players) what your evidence for that is.

[Kakarroto]

Same as every other game bozo. Except this time it may be even more uncalled for than normal.

I thought you helped come up with the idea for this game. Why do you think in a game where every player is a PR that we should not try to use that to our advantage?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main gimmick of this setup is that nobody knows what they are. I have a suspicion that this may have been to directly combat mech clears while still having a lot of silly roles. Also I just don't like D1 mechs discussion. Mostly that.

aren't there some maf-roles that 'eff' with PR roles? *looks* hmm, well, there is one kinda RB, and the rest are information gain roles. So ok, the potential isn't too great.

Still, one role which blocks and that could lead to a chain reaction so people don't get their supposed information (like, if the rb hit a role that scans a role, but that person was targeted by a role that returns what their target gets, and so on). If mafia knows what town generally plans, there are ways for them to manipulate.

We should be very cautious for any big plans that are complicated. I would prefer if everyone decides for themselves as that would also show us their thought process (at least partially), but if we decide to make a plan for all of us, then it should be one that is fool proof and doesn't let mafia much room for manipulations (well I doubt there will be none, but I haven't thought it through so maybe there is).

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

@brain

How would it affect your reads if you assumed fish!town?

eh, probably not a whole lot. the reasons why Jamie might be scum with lfischl are not relevant, as Jamie for whatever reason, -does scumread- lfischl but needed someone else to make his talking points for him. Not sure it means anything regardless of what lfischl flips at that point.

and then my scumread on chaqa is pretty much voided. foodcoats made me think that if lfischl is town, then bob is probably just opportunistic scum here and I can see that being a thing.

Hamilton would only look bad if lfischl flips mafia, otherwise ham statement is harmless.

My updated scumreads are : bozo, lsfischl, bob, and heart.

so, do I understand you correctly here:

-) hamilton looks bad if lfischl is mafia

-) you think lfischl is mafia

-) yet you don't think hamilton is mafia? At least not enough to put him in your maf-reads?

Kakarroto is Backarroto!

[Kakarroto]

I thought you helped come up with the idea for this game. Why do you think in a game where every player is a PR that we should not try to use that to our advantage?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main gimmick of this setup is that nobody knows what they are. I have a suspicion that this may have been to directly combat mech clears while still having a lot of silly roles. Also I just don't like D1 mechs discussion. Mostly that.

Right, so the only way to get useful information is to identify everyone's role, which of course also tells us who all the town players are. In my opinion, the fastest way to identify everyone's role is to have everyone target a different player N1 and have everyone claim their scan result, and I don't think the mafia can do a lot to obscure the results.

well this sounds simple enough.

hmm

I fear though that could give mafia very good intel, with the 'claim their scan result'. Like if they want to PR hunt, that's a pretty good sorting mechanism.

On the other hand, it wouldn't give mafia too much freedom for fake claiming stuff. Hmm. I'm not sure if it is worth the trade off. I want other people to say what they think about that.

@food
@worcej
@bunny
@jamie
@B3K3

I want you to think about that and give me your opinions and thoughts. Everyone else is welcomed too, but those five I want explicitly to answer it.

Well, lets add one more:

@Nephthys please also add your thoughts and opinion on that matter. Do you maybe have a better idea how we could proceed if there is an all encompassing plan for town?

[Kakarroto]

Following on from my previous post, Kak seems intent on getting us as little info as possible...

Do you think that Kakorroto mentioning he considered a No Kill, and removing his end vote, is scum indicative?

Inherently no. But combined with wanting to kill lukers I don't like. His reads list is also verbose to the point of being mostly filler, I've found I tend to do this more as scum

##vote Kak

I suggest you have a look at my other D1 voting and pushing reasons and compare that information with what you see in this game.

As far as I see it, I'm not much different to the vast majority of my games, with early reads that are just vibes or intuitions. Normally I get it right at the end, with my reads becoming fully correct (though people still don't listen to me even I get nk'ed for them) (watching at no one in particular *cough* *cough* ).

But hey, feel free to not listen to what I say about me in this running game, see for yourself or listen to me in a game where I was town.

Oh, also, one more thing: normalcy and common knowledge don't work with me. Best see me as the crazy outsider who does ridiculous things, but which seem to work for him.

(I'm a bit surprised people didn't inform you about stuff like these. I guess mafia has enough other peeps trying to pocket/protect and see me as a mis-vote.)

(ok, sweet did question your logic in a post a bit after this. Hmm. Doesn't seem too much like mafia. Should be noted though.) (And bob adds his mustard regarding this post too. Hmm.)

[Kakarroto]

I like what I've seen from foodcoats so far. I'm not getting the kind of fun!kak vibes I hope for with him in the game. Jamie-brain argument reads like a classic case of Jamie-brain blowing each other up. Makes me think they're probably not both mafia.

no bona
no eden
no sabi
chaqa is low energy
bunny not posting
discussions weren't funny
sweet did ok

the game was kinda stacked against me there

[Kakarroto]

No mechs! Its still the joke phase, right?

what about gundams?

aargh, I did this joke in bunny's PM's (last game when he was GM). I mentally checked it as done but it was kinda not official.

But how dare you steal my joke! +1 townpoint for thinking like me. +1 mafiapoint for stealing it

[Jamiet99uk]

please explain what do you find here so disgusting, preferable in the english language

I think it's pretty obvious - Neph quoted you saying townies should never consider voting No-Kill on D1, and then presented an example of you voting No-Kill on D1 in a relatively recent game.

[Kakarroto]

Ive read everything frog has done and I think frog is mafia. the reason is the total lack of scumreads and the ease of townreads without much depth behind them

##Vote frog

Stop reading my mind. Not sure if he is scum yet. Kind of reminds me of Xcution from M80. What do you think?

I looked at D1 of M80 and Xcution did not seem particularly similar to Frogsterking, although I do agree about the possibility of pocketing. Coincidentally, M80 was also the game you referred to earlier about BunnyGo, although I think it is WIFOM as to whether he would repeat the same think as mafia.

If I remember correctly, sweet, brain and myself where town while jamie and bunny where mafia, trying to shade me at the end.

Hmm, damo was town in that one and I suspected him there too ... until I found the truth.

How possible is it that this game is a copy of that one?

Nahh, chaqa was GM and ghug was in game, so can't be.