M1027: Community - Game Thread

[ghug]

I'm bored

What's your assessment of Bozo?

Of Ham?

Why are you voting Mad?

I've been reading solving energy from bozo, but that D1 analysis is fluffy and atypical and it's giving me pause.

I think Ham is a good vote. If there was scum on the block D1, it was him, and his play is hard to follow and oddly aggressive.

Monarch seems to care a lot about mechanics but not at all about solving, which is a telltale sign of scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm bored

Maybe solving the game would make you feel you had more purpose in life?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bozo: Nobody is joining your Heart-throb wagon.

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo: Nobody is joining your Heart-throb wagon.

You are the only player to change their vote in the last 24 hours.

[ghug]

From my POV, these are the players that need to be resolved:
BK3K
Chaqa
ghug
Hamilton
heartthrob
Jamie
Just
rdrivera
sweetandcool
Monarch
worcej

Around 2 hours before D1 EOD, all of these players were voting for confirmed town (damo, dargorygel, or Kakarroto) or not voting. That means any distance voting of scum teammates was over and there was no bussing at that time. I think what we decided to do with the scan probably helped discourage bussing, because the mafia would want to avoid ending up as the second wagon. In any case, the mafia were in a good position, with all votes on town with the possible exception of my vote on Hamilton.

Assigning Just to his most recent vote of damo, the possible mafia were distributed like this approximately 2 hours before EOD:
dargorygel: ghug heartth​rob rdrivera
Kakarroto: swe​etandcool Monarc​h worcej
damo: BK3K Chaqa Hamilton Jamie Just

A Just wagon formed to replace the damo wagon after damo's fake soft claiming, and the Hamilton wagon formed near EOD, otherwise not much else happened.

At least half of the Just votes seemed to have been a joke.

I think it is interesting that none of the damo voters moved directly to dargorygel or Kakarroto.

The D2 votes have been static for a while now:

sweetandcool: Just Monarch Jamie Chaqa
bozotheclown: Hamilton sweetandcool
ghug: dargorygel worcej
Monarch: ghug heartthrob
Hamilton: rdrivera BK3K

The only players voting together in both cases are ghug and heartthrob.

I feel like the Neon principle is in effect and the D1 mafia distribution was 2-1-1 at 2 hours, and the mafia are almost certainly spread out now, unless they are bussing sweetandcool. It is also possible for sweetandcool to be mafia and all of the mafia to be voting for town again.

Hamilton and sweetandcool both voting for me after I spent some time N1 trying to determine if they could be mafia teammates is interesting, I don't know why they would want to connect themselves that way as mafia.

I think there could be one mafia in Hamilton/sweetandcool and one mafia in ghug/heartthrob. I also suspect there were 2 mafia in the damo wagon who were looking for a place to move their vote. If Hamilton is mafia, BK3K and/or heartthrob could have bussed him at D1 EOD for maximum town credit.

I think this mafia team has at least 2 members who have successfully avoided suspicion, possibly more.

##VOTE heartthrob

The neon principle says that the first three vote wagon D1 will contain exactly one scum amongst the four players involved, so I don't see how it's relevant here.

Who falls into your suspicion avoidance pool? Do you think scum are only in me/heart/sweet/Ham?

I think we have a difference of opinion on the meaning of the Neon principle.

My suspicion avoidance pool is:
BK3K
Chaqa
ghug
heartthrob
Jamie
Just
rdrivera

I played several games off site this year, a few of them with Neon and all of them inundated with discussion of her rule. I'm very confident in my interpretation. I also don't put much credence in it as an analytical tool regardless.

You think Just and I have avoided suspicion?

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE Hamilton Brian

If the voting is not going to change, I am OK with resolving Hamilton via the DK and making sweetandcool the VT selection.

[bozotheclown]

The neon principle says that the first three vote wagon D1 will contain exactly one scum amongst the four players involved, so I don't see how it's relevant here.

Who falls into your suspicion avoidance pool? Do you think scum are only in me/heart/sweet/Ham?

I think we have a difference of opinion on the meaning of the Neon principle.

My suspicion avoidance pool is:
BK3K
Chaqa
ghug
heartthrob
Jamie
Just
rdrivera

I played several games off site this year, a few of them with Neon and all of them inundated with discussion of her rule. I'm very confident in my interpretation. I also don't put much credence in it as an analytical tool regardless.

You think Just and I have avoided suspicion?

I didn't know the Neon principle was a real thing, for me it was just something I called her opinion that the mafia would have a strong tendency to distribute their votes.

Yes, despite a few votes. I think only 2 of Just's D1 votes were real.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bozo: Nobody is joining your Heart-throb wagon.

You are the only player to change their vote in the last 24 hours.

An interesting datapoint. What do you make of that?

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo: Nobody is joining your Heart-throb wagon.

You are the only player to change their vote in the last 24 hours.

An interesting datapoint. What do you make of that?

I suspect the mafia may be all voting for town again.

[bozotheclown]

I am not sure what sweetandcool is doing, but I would rather not DK him if he is town, so I think having him be the VT selection is a good option.

[heartthrob24909]

Long post incoming, apologies in advance... tried to do a sparknotes of D1 including some takes but its really long

[Jamiet99uk]

I am not sure what sweetandcool is doing, but I would rather not DK him if he is town, so I think having him be the VT selection is a good option.

I agree with you, he's a good VT selection as he clearly divides opinion.

[Jamiet99uk]

Is Bk3k still here or is he out celebrating NYE?

[heartthrob24909]

Day 1 Retold. Disclaimer that this is story is told through my voice; I tried to prioritize accuracy and brevity so while I did my best to adequately summarize events, it is possible that they may not be truly representative of what took place and to get further detail you should read the original thread.

Early Day
- Day 1 famously begins with an argument between Jamie and Sweet centered around a post of Sweet's which Jamie interpreted as PR hunting. Hijinks ensue.
- Bozo starts the mech discussion immediately, which TheMadMonarch sees, so she chimes in with her own proposal.
- Ghug casts a vote for Sweet and agrees with Jamie's opinion on Bozo's mech proposal. Townreads Bozo, Monarch
- Sweet sees some interesting stuff in the thread.
- Darg's welcome post is an endorsement of both mech plans with a slight preference for Monarch's.
- Enter Kak. Skepticism over Ghug's townreading Bozo and Monarch. Proposes ideas relating to mechs.
- Monarch implies disappointment in her role, implies that were she scum she would not have shared her mech plan.
- Rdr chimes in with some mech-related thoughts and asks Kak to clarify a point.
- Kak expresses hesitancies over the mech plans; Monarch casts a vote for Kak in response. Kak and Jamie have a back-and-forth regarding why Kak doesn't like the plans; in the process, Kak suggests that he finds Monarch more scumlike than Bozo as it relates to this conversation
- Enter BK3K, who proposes the same mech idea Monarch did before reading the thread to see that Monarch had done so.
- Darg makes his fateful post regarding lack of confidence in the Bozo and Monarch plans.
- Heartthrob arrives and shares lots of mech-related thoughts in response to what other players have put forth; ultimately endorses Bozo's plan
- Jamie and Sweet resume their fight. I do think that initially, Sweet misunderstands why Jamie has picked the fight.
- Jamie asks some questions about the inconsistencies in Sweet's Jamie accusation while Sweet continues to loudly and confidently scumread Jamie. In the ensuing events Sweet tends to miss the questions Jamie is directing at him, instead opting to focusing on the fact that the fight is happening. In the midst of the fight, Ghug will cast a vote for Jamie.
- Ghug, Jamie, Sweet, Chaqa, Heartthrob, Just, Monarch engage in more mech discussion
- Worcej arrives, casts votes (for Jamie and Rdr), makes jokes. Townreads Kak
- BK3K votes for Jamie for making a lot of noise
- Chaqa and Just cast votes for Damo, trying to draw him out to play.
- Ghug casts his Darg vote
- Jamie and Just argue.
- Worcej points out at least twice that mech discussers should not get towncred for discussing mechs

My Takes:
- Ghug's Jamie vote feels weird to me. Idk how much the two of them have played together but I gather they have more history than I do with either of them. To me, Jamie just feels like someone who is particularly reactive about reads of Jamie. If this is true, it raises my eyebrow that someone who knows him better wouldn't also have this opinion. I don't see anything that indicates that Ghug's vote was not meant in earnest.
- Lots of mech talk; raw plan proposals feel NAI to me so not a lot here.
- That being said: light townlean on BK3K for proposing the same idea Monarch did. Knowing him from some work games, I feel like were he scum he would read the thread and endorse Monarch's idea to build towncred, rather than not read the thread or lie about not reading the thread. Subtle distinction but it did cross my mind.
- During the early phase, Monarch scumreads Kak, Darg, and Jamie. This feels NAI to me because its either lazy scum or lazy town.

Rest of analysis will focus on the vote as the major wagons have now started to form. As of this point in the day:

Kakarroto (3) TheMadMonarch dargorygel worcej
​Jamiet99uk (2) sweetandcool BK3K
damo666 (2) Chaqa Just​AGuyNamedWill
dargorygel (2) ghug heartthrob24909
No​‑Kill (2) Kakarroto Jamiet99uk
sweetandcool (1) damo666

No votes yet from Bozo, Ham, Rdr

Within the next hour...
- BK3K votes for Damo, citing lack of playtime. This puts a Damo's wagon into the lead with Kak
- Rdr votes Darg because he doesn't find Darg's logic to be consistent with town reasoning. This moves the Darg wagon into the lead with Damo and Kak.
- Bozo votes for Darg, citing what Ghug shared about setup review conversations. This moves Darg into the lead. By D2 we know that all three of these leading wagons are town.

Another half hour passes...
- Bozo switches his vote to Ham (pocketing allegations) and Jamie to Sweet (no specifics; Sweet hadn't said anything in the past 3 minutes). It's a 3-way tie again. I like this move from Bozo
- Ham pledges allegience to Jamie and casts a(n invalid) vote for Sweet, and Sweet directly retaliates with a vote for Ham. I don't think either of these two look good here.
- Bozo points out that were Ham's vote legal, Sweet would be a fourth leading wagon with 3 votes:

This is not a valid vote, but if it were, the voting would be:

Kakarroto (3) TheMadMonarch dargorygel worcej
damo666 (3) Chaqa JustAGuyNamedWill BK3K
dargorygel (3) ghug heartthrob24909 rdrivera2005
sweetandcool (3) damo666 Jamiet99uk Hamilton Brian
Hamilton Brian (2) bozotheclown sweetandcool
No‑Kill (1) Kakarroto

- Ham now casts a valid vote for Damo, putting his wagon into the lead.
- Jamie moves off of Sweet to Damo (hasn't posted; has reads on everyone) and Sweet off of Ham to Kak (keeping it competitive). Damo, Kak, and Darg are now the only real wagons.
- Damo arrives (Just removes his Damo vote upon this arrival, tying Damo and Kak again), appears to softclaim Investigator, and votes for Kak. Minutes later votes Darg, unsuccessfully attempting to persuade Kak to do the same.
- Jamie votes for Just, arguing that Just has pushed for Jamie in ways which lacked substance.
- Chaqa casts a joke vote for Ham.

Last 90 minutes of the day:
- The Damo wagon will dissipate over the next few movements.
- Sweet and BK3K vote for Just for not knowing what Eiffel 65 is. Just is now a competitive wagon.

dargorygel (4) ghug heartth​rob24909 rdrivera2005 damo666
Kakarroto (3) TheMadMonarc​h dargorygel worcej
JustAGuyNamedWill (3) Jamiet99uk swe​etandcool BK3K
Hamilton Brian (2) bozotheclown Chaqa
damo666 (1) Hamilton Brian
No‑Kill (1) Kakarroto
Unvote (1) JustAGuyNamed​Will

- Ham expresses distate for the leading wagons and votes for Just.
- Chaqa unvotes. Jamie moves from Just to Ham, expressing doubts about the Darg and Kak wagons.
- Just votes for Darg as a "placeholder" after railing against the existence of the wagon throughout several posts. This creates a safer margin between the Darg wagon and the Just wagon which still has two joke votes on it.

15 minutes left
- Just and Heartthrob vote for Ham, moving Ham into the lead.
- Sweet moves from Just to Darg, tying Darg with Ham.
- Heartthrob points out that Kak is actively +1ing posts while still not having voted for a player
- Chaqa votes for Kak and BK3K for Ham. Ham in the lead.
- Damo votes for Kak, tying it with 3 minutes left.
- Jamie, Just, and Heartthrob all moves their votes from Ham to Kak within the same minute. Day ends.

Kak, Damo, and Darg later flip town.

My takes, after going back through this:
- I have two main lines of thinking: (1) I think Ham looks bad and deserves skepticism; (2) I think those who were not as active in the EOD vote shuffle deserve skepticism.
- The final vote movement: Jamie, Just, and Heartthrob moved their votes from Ham to Kak in the final minutes of the day. Seeing as we all made the same movement from Ham to Kak, and ours were the only votes who moved after Damo tied the vote between those two, I don't think any one of the three of us comes out of this move looking any worse or better than the others. Knowing what we now do about Damo's alignment, the jump doesn't feel protective of the Ham wagon as it does trying to avoid a tie.

From D1 alone:
- Slightest of townleans: BK3K, Bozo
- Slightest of scumleans: Ghug, Ham
- Would like to see additional pressure on: Ghug, Ham, Chaqa, TheMadMonarch, Worcej, Rdr

[heartthrob24909]

That's so long omg I feel like a loser...

[heartthrob24909]

##vote ghug

For the D1 Jamie vote and not being part of EOD vote shuffle for whatever the reason may be

[Hamilton Brian]

I think Ham is a good vote. If there was scum on the block D1, it was him, and his play is hard to follow and oddly aggressive.

Monarch seems to care a lot about mechanics but not at all about solving, which is a telltale sign of scum.

Snipping your assessment of bozo since I don't want to address it but I do feel like it needs to be on the record.

If there was scum on the block D1, what makes you so certain it was me?

My play is hard to follow. Isn't it always? I do a lot of walking and talking and saying things outloud to then try to make some sense out of them. I think that's been my play since day 1.

Oddly aggressive? How? If anything, other than my pissed-off reply to bozo, I think I've handled myself with a degree of respect.

I don't think these statements are being made in good faith.

I do agree with your assessment on Monarch and it's possible I'll be shifting there.

[Hamilton Brian]

That's so long omg I feel like a loser...

Oh, no. I quite like it.

That crazy font, though, is doing my head in.

[Hamilton Brian]

I keep running into this internal debate of "why aren't I townread more frequently?"

Yet, if I'd ask any one of you what does "townread" look like, I doubt I would receive a stable single response or concensus.

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote ghug

For the D1 Jamie vote and not being part of EOD vote shuffle for whatever the reason may be

You are voting Ghug because he voted for me, yet according to your long post, you do not townread me, correct?