M1027: Community - Game Thread

[ghug]

I think that getting a dead-set read on an individual is not as important as setting up the alignment pairs between different players in the game. If the investigator lasts long enough, they can get pretty close to solving it, I would imagine.

But again open to others' thoughts since clearly this is controversial

You are right on this and I am still tryng to understand if people objecting the optimization of our only PR are openly Wollongong or just don't understand basic game mechanics.
I tend to give Kak a pass sometimes and this costed a game not so long so I feel weird about his approach. Dargo doesn't look like scum trying to avoid best town play, but I won't give him town points for this either.

I kinda think darg does, though.

[ghug]

It still feels like both plans diminish responsibility. "It is just math."

I would prefer to post to GMs my top choice, and announce it at EoN. Some recrd keeping would allow the investigator to warch, note. And figure things out to reveal when they have some scum to announce.

Risk investigator is NKed. But that's the game.

I WILL go along with everyone though according to the survey.

Sweet is seeming artificial.

Jamie is a bit narrow. Ignorance humor. That is often more scum jamie. But i think jamie's opening suggestion towny.

You seem to think the investigator would have to reveal their results, but the investigation result is announced to everyone. Does that change your preference?

I meant the risk is that the investigator would randomly be NK. So no more risk tgan anyone else.

I AM not sure, though. But I'll do what most want.
Time to find scum.

Kak is tired of being scum and it shows.

##vote kak

##VOTE darg

[ghug]

Also @Jamie you... don't seem like the kind of guy to misinteperet a joke

Who wants to tell him?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Also @Jamie you... don't seem like the kind of guy to misinteperet a joke

Who wants to tell him?

I got this impression from Jamie too.

@Stand I haven't played with you before. Nice to meet ya!

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

You seem to think the investigator would have to reveal their results, but the investigation result is announced to everyone. Does that change your preference?

I meant the risk is that the investigator would randomly be NK. So no more risk tgan anyone else.

I AM not sure, though. But I'll do what most want.
Time to find scum.

Kak is tired of being scum and it shows.

##vote kak

##VOTE darg

Why is darg a proponent for neither plan? And he proposes no alternative plan other than "be responsible"??????

Suspicious

[Kakarroto]

He seems to be kinda missing? I'm in the brainbomb/settling game with him and he wasn't very active the last few days, so probably some christmas stuff happening?

I don't like his 'first' post while game wasn't running but that's probably NAI since I think the role pms weren't out then?

He seems to have a strange obsession with you, Jamie, which is really odd. It reminds me more of his maf play than town play. Like right into the fray without any concerns about flavour and topic. If he is maf, I would lean more into 'he has learned and now tries to tie himself with other townies' so that would be a town lean for you Jamie. But I'm not sure, maybe just some silliness because of christmas booze?

Other than that he hasn't done anything. I guess we shouldn't forget his starting reaction.

I noticed there was no instruction to not post, so an insane and uncontrollable urge to troll came over me.

While I don't like THAT you did it, I like your reasoning behind it.

Yeah, come to think about it, I really llike for sweet to tell us what he sees in Jamie right now.

I feel like it is self explanatory. Jamiet was laying down instructions for town as a way to score town points and try to position himself as town leader.

and you feel that it MUST come from mafia-Jamie? It's not possible town-Jamie would try to rally the players?

[Kakarroto]

Also, I meant to only have a small nap before the game so I would be there at start, didn't know that I would sleep over 10 hours. Guess my body needed the sleep.

I'm also very surprised to see quite a lot of policy discussion. I'm also surprised that ghug (who previously said those are typical what mafia defaults to in the joke phase) sees two of them as very towny.

I thought about the system myself a bit, but wouldn't the information, who thinks who is mafia for the vote, be useful? Like this policy that everyone chooses a certain individuum takes intention out of players hands and makes it easy to hide.

Also:

##VOTE sweet for cosplaying as a Brit again.

does ghug here buss sweet again?


@MadMonarch: Do you like your role PM? Are you happy about it? :)

@Bozo: who would you want to investigate right now with your system?

@Chaqa: where did you hide the joke phase?!?

Where did I say I saw them as townie?

If I understand the investigator mechanism correctly, I think the best way to use it is to have all of the VTs select the same player (player A), and the investigator select a different player (player B), so that a mafia report on player B means that player A and player B are both town or both mafia, and a town report on player B means that one of player A and B are mafia and the other is town.

As usual I like Bozo's thinking here.

Yeah this was my conclusion as well. There are some other things we can think about around putting people in groups and making them select different targets once we have some alignment info, but this is optimal right now.

I propose we just pick the second highest vote getter.

OK I got a thorough explanation of how this works from Bunny.

I'll assume whatever Bozo is saying is the truth mechanics-wise, but also that probably means he's scum.

These are both bad assumptions.

I took that was your stance regarding bozo and monarch. Maybe I interpreted too much into them, then I'm sorry.

But how do you think about those two then? Neutral? Slightly town? Did it change from that time and what they posted in the meantime?

[Kakarroto]

[...]
I also think we should not be discussing this all day (thanks Kak), so I'm going to put my bozo hat on and suggest a survey.
[...]

blaming me when I suggested a free-form system while two other suggested a very rigid system before feels kinda wrong

but maybe I put some fire into the discussion, sorry about that

[Kakarroto]

100% of the times I draw Town, Ghug scumreads me D1.
74% of the times I draw Scum, Ghug scumreads me D1.

Scientifically this demonstrates that if Ghug scumreads me on D1 then I am likely to be Town.

this just means when ghug townreads you, you are mafia.

The percentages for when you are read as mafia are too high to extrapolate your alignment there. Sure, there might be a slight lean toward town, but that also depends on the games and how many times you were mafia and town respectively.

If those numbers are actually correct and fully collected from previous games, not just written down in the spur of the moment and only near the correct state.

[TheMadMonarch]

People who want to follow TheMadMonarch's plan where everyone chooses the person after them on the player list for investigation, guaranteeing we don't cross the 50% threshold:
TheMadMonarch
Jamie
[your name here]

People who want to follow ghug's plan of everyone choosing the second place votegetter D1, allowing a check between that person and the investigator's target of whether their alignments match:
ghug
heartthrob
BK3K
bozo
JustAGuyNamedWill
[your name here]

People who want to follow darg's plan of everyone picking their own suspect and then announcing it end of night:
darg
Kak?
[your name here]

People who want to follow [your plan here]:

I'm thinking more and more of the benefits of the parity cop. If the guaranteed scan shows town (which it likely will), there isn't much reason the mafia won't just kill them immediately after.

The fears of "vote manipulation" and the like are unfounded. Mafia already work to hide while saving themselves, it would be very difficult to do that as well as stay hidden. Not to say it can't happen, but it's unlikely.

And even if it did, it doesn't really matter A clear's a clear.

This doesn't check out at all, but I'm inclined not to explain it, because players here don't have much experience with parity outside of the one Eden game.

To be clear, I'm advocating Bozo's system.

[Kakarroto]

Anyway, regarding which 'system' we should use:

thinking about it more, bozo's proposal has several advantages. Not only do we get information about two people, those two people get ACCURATE information instantly.

Like target A would know the alignment of target B and vice versa. If both are town, they can perfectly buddy up and help each other. If one of them is town and one of them mafia, the town player has increased visibility of the mafia team and can think of the next steps of 'who is mafia with them', trying to find a team. In that case, their time might be limited, but still they can bring advanced ideas into the room.

If both are mafia, it might take a while and they might pose as town, but eventually they are caught. And then we have a full half of the maf team, PLUS any connections they made in the meantime.

Whereas in the other system, we might get a townclear for a day, but surly nothing will hold mafia back to just nk them. We might force mafia's hand who they choose, but that's probably it.

Now, there is one disadvantage for bozo's system, in case when we get one maf/one town, when we decide to vote one of them out and get it wrong and vote our town friend out. Which would lead to a very stale night and next day. Then again, our PR can work in that night and give us more info, and we might not want to choose between them instantly when we aren't too sure to avoid such a mis-vote.

---

Furthermore I'm not a big fan of ghug's suggestion for automatic chosing of a target; that could be influenced by mafia. I learned mafia doesn't vote on the target, which is great, but such an automatic system would diminish town's power.

I also think we should strive for a pair of someone who gets normally early nk'ed and someone who is normally not easy to read OR doesn't get much information out. Like, I would say, such a perfect pair would be SNOWY and LFISCHL (both players not in game, but ideal for this example); snowy gets nk'ed pretty early when he is town. Lfischl is normally coasting/lurking. Not only would we get info from someone not easily obtained, but it would be pretty fast accurate information if their partner is shot down early.

That would require the PR to work with the system, but it looks like the majority of players favour this conformity and systemical work, so I guess they would be on board with it? It would leave them the choice to choose the partner for the other category, whereas town gets to choose the first part.

If you don't think we should do it, I think ghug's version of bozo's plan is still better than MadMonarch (and BK3K's) suggestion, but with the partner system, I think we could nail down some good information.

[Jamiet99uk]

You suspicious

How?

You act like the mafia. I dunno how else to put it.

Why would I do that if I was Mafia?

[Jamiet99uk]

Could people who scumread me EXPLAIN WHY THEY FUCKING SCUMREAD ME, PRETTY FUCKING PLEASE?

I do not believe this is too much to ask.

This is what happened:

Jamiet makes a post reminding people to vote at night.

sweetandcool teasingly votes Jamiet for telling him what to do.

Jamiet votes sweetandcool because he perceives sweetandcool's attitude as threatening towards the investigator (which is bogus).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It feels like Jamiet is putting on an act. Jamiet likes to pretend that someone being humorous is instead being literal. In this case, your doubling down and trying to bully me feels like a scum tactic.

Actually (sigh) since you are all being dumb about it....

It was your opening post where you claimed Vanilla. This endangers the Investigstor by reducing the pool Mafia have to hunt in (and may subtly encourage Vanilla claims from others).

It would be nice if people started to read in depth and engage their brains.

##Unvote.

[Jamiet99uk]

I work with bunny go and heartthrob so I know them IRL

I played one previous game here where scum was chug, pres Eden, bona together, and koala. Some of the people in this game were townies with me. I scum read Eden and bona buddied me and I fucked up the end game. More vigilant about that now

Other than that, I'm 32 and love games, but you all post a lot so I will pick up thread where I see them but I'm not keeping a spreadsheet of notes. Also only playing on phone. Thought I was real clever with my vote-next-on-the -list strat until Monarch best me to it, and bozo had a better plan IMO

I was also a math major lol

I think Jamie, Chara, damo and rdrivera were in that game with me. Jamie either shot someone day one or was shot day one, so was not in the game long. Must've been shot in that case

Oh damn, was that the game where Fluminator was an idiot and shot me D1 when I was a town PR?

I think it may have been.

Fluminator is not clever.

[sweetandcool]

Could people who scumread me EXPLAIN WHY THEY FUCKING SCUMREAD ME, PRETTY FUCKING PLEASE?

I do not believe this is too much to ask.

This is what happened:

Jamiet makes a post reminding people to vote at night.

sweetandcool teasingly votes Jamiet for telling him what to do.

Jamiet votes sweetandcool because he perceives sweetandcool's attitude as threatening towards the investigator (which is bogus).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It feels like Jamiet is putting on an act. Jamiet likes to pretend that someone being humorous is instead being literal. In this case, your doubling down and trying to bully me feels like a scum tactic.

Actually (sigh) since you are all being dumb about it....

It was your opening post where you claimed Vanilla. This endangers the Investigstor by reducing the pool Mafia have to hunt in (and may subtly encourage Vanilla claims from others).

It would be nice if people started to read in depth and engage their brains.

##Unvote.

Huh, I had wondered if that is what was bothering you. But that post was essentially supposed to be a joke.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie's behavior today doesn't really seem like scum!Jamie. I feel like this is the same thing that always happens with him. I'm not sure how I view sweet or B3K voting Jamie here, but I think ghug going after Jamie is extremely [redacted].

You're right, Chaqa, it is.

##Vote Ghug

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm actually just confused about the plan. Why aren't we settled on doing as Monarch suggested?

Seems like a foolproof plan.

More people should respond to the survey.

[Jamiet99uk]

Also @Jamie you seem to have put too much merit into sweet's accusation. You don't seem like the kind of guy to misinteperet a joke, something that someone else pointed out, so it just feels iffy

You think his whole push on me is a joke?

Why aren't yoj giving him shit for spending 24 hours pushing a joke wagon, then?

[Jamiet99uk]

Tbf, jamie is not responding to the vote. But for what jamie perceives and purports was PR hunting.

Oh look, someone who knows how to read.

Thanks Darg.

[Jamiet99uk]

Could people who scumread me EXPLAIN WHY THEY FUCKING SCUMREAD ME, PRETTY FUCKING PLEASE?

I do not believe this is too much to ask.

This is what happened:

Jamiet makes a post reminding people to vote at night.

sweetandcool teasingly votes Jamiet for telling him what to do.

Jamiet votes sweetandcool because he perceives sweetandcool's attitude as threatening towards the investigator (which is bogus).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It feels like Jamiet is putting on an act. Jamiet likes to pretend that someone being humorous is instead being literal. In this case, your doubling down and trying to bully me feels like a scum tactic.

Oh but I don't like this from sweet.

You liked his other insincere posts pushing me. What changed here?