MAfIA 84 - A VERY TENDER THANKSGIVING GAME THREAD

[ghug]

After me, Ghug was the next person on D2 to vote for Hamilton. He moved from Temasek onto Hamilton in response to Hamilton asking me a question about my D1 vote for Temasek.

Noting that Ghug did later move, and ended up on Temasek.

Ghug's Hamilton vote there does not make much sense. Ghug, could you comment please?

I thought the post in question was weird and agenda-y, and I largely agreed with your vote, so I wanted to add pressure.

I thought they were both fine kills, FWIW. I voted Tem at the end in the hopes of making EoD competitive, and then I got waylaid by an asshole who insisted I didn't know how to tie a tree to a car and needed to do it himself.

Thanks for the context.

Why were you trying to tie your car to a tree?

You tie the tree to a car so that you can take it home and adorn it with lights and creepy metal santas, obviously.

[ghug]

Maybe it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I think it's better that than wasting a full day phase on flipping me.

The vig does really need to start shooting but since you're probably town I think you should consider just acting like it so people won't kill you.

Considering ghug's EOD apathy post that I find suspicious, this seems like it could be pocketing.

What's the connection?

I voiced my Chaqa townread during D2. I don't think he would be this lazy as scum. I also think his play is detrimental to town, so I'd like him to change it.

[bozotheclown]

If Just is mafia, that would mean 12 players ended D1 voting for mafia. Even if all of the mafia were bussing, that does not seem particularly likely.

Do you really think afia would only bus more than one of their own? Seems way too risky with no communication. Heck, I think all the mafia may have ended up on sweet at some point, but so believe at least one had to have been on me or Macca

If Just is mafia, he may be confirming that the remaining 3 mafia voted for sweetandcool during D1. He also seems to be saying that one mafia voting for sweetandcool moved to him or Macca before EOD, because we know sweetandcool voted for him. The only player that meets that criteria is Temasek.

So maybe it is Just/Temasek/ghug? That would also help explain ghug's D2 T vs. T conclusion based on the questionable apathy claim.

[bozotheclown]

@bozo or really anyone who knows Just: is he generally quiet at night? Lurk much?

M83 was his first game and he posted a lot a night.

[ghug]

Damo
Rd
Bona
-------Gulf of scumptiousness------
Heart
Will
Bunny
Jamie
Worcej
----POEpal line of demarkation----
Tem
Macca
Chaqa
bozo
ghug

Roughly ordered within groups. I think Bona makes sense with both of them other scummies but there's something in my gut saying he's not actually scum.

I don't think Will and Bunny are paired. If bona is town, I think it's very likely there's a scum in worcej/Jamie because a lack of sweet bussing seems unlikely.

[ghug]

If Just is mafia, that would mean 12 players ended D1 voting for mafia. Even if all of the mafia were bussing, that does not seem particularly likely.

Do you really think afia would only bus more than one of their own? Seems way too risky with no communication. Heck, I think all the mafia may have ended up on sweet at some point, but so believe at least one had to have been on me or Macca

If Just is mafia, he may be confirming that the remaining 3 mafia voted for sweetandcool during D1. He also seems to be saying that one mafia voting for sweetandcool moved to him or Macca before EOD, because we know sweetandcool voted for him. The only player that meets that criteria is Temasek.

So maybe it is Just/Temasek/ghug? That would also help explain ghug's D2 T vs. T conclusion based on the questionable apathy claim.

Why is my apathy claim questionable, bozo?

[bozotheclown]

The vig does really need to start shooting but since you're probably town I think you should consider just acting like it so people won't kill you.

Considering ghug's EOD apathy post that I find suspicious, this seems like it could be pocketing.

What's the connection?

I voiced my Chaqa townread during D2. I don't think he would be this lazy as scum. I also think his play is detrimental to town, so I'd like him to change it.

The first is that you seem confident Chaqa is town, the second is that you implied the mafia were apathetic about D2 EOD, which would apply to Chaqa.

[ghug]

Considering ghug's EOD apathy post that I find suspicious, this seems like it could be pocketing.

What's the connection?

I voiced my Chaqa townread during D2. I don't think he would be this lazy as scum. I also think his play is detrimental to town, so I'd like him to change it.

The first is that you seem confident Chaqa is town, the second is that you implied the mafia were apathetic about D2 EOD, which would apply to Chaqa.

I can see general apathy and also specifically think that Chaqa is town. I find people who were here and didn't actually seem invested in affecting the outcome more suspicious than those who were simply absent, and there's a meta history of Chaqa being more invested as scum.

[bozotheclown]

Do you really think afia would only bus more than one of their own? Seems way too risky with no communication. Heck, I think all the mafia may have ended up on sweet at some point, but so believe at least one had to have been on me or Macca

If Just is mafia, he may be confirming that the remaining 3 mafia voted for sweetandcool during D1. He also seems to be saying that one mafia voting for sweetandcool moved to him or Macca before EOD, because we know sweetandcool voted for him. The only player that meets that criteria is Temasek.

So maybe it is Just/Temasek/ghug? That would also help explain ghug's D2 T vs. T conclusion based on the questionable apathy claim.

Why is my apathy claim questionable, bozo?

I did not think the D2 EOD activity looked particularly apathetic, certainly not enough to conclude Temasek must be town, and if I did, I would not conclude 3 players who changed their vote at EOD were the most likely contributors to the apathy.

[Jamiet99uk]

I thought the post in question was weird and agenda-y, and I largely agreed with your vote, so I wanted to add pressure.

I thought they were both fine kills, FWIW. I voted Tem at the end in the hopes of making EoD competitive, and then I got waylaid by an asshole who insisted I didn't know how to tie a tree to a car and needed to do it himself.

Thanks for the context.

Why were you trying to tie your car to a tree?

You tie the tree to a car so that you can take it home and adorn it with lights and creepy metal santas, obviously.

Oh I see! You've taken a temporary seasonal job at a place where Christmas trees are sold. Understood.

I'm sorry it sounds like your customer was being such an asshole.

[bozotheclown]

What's the connection?

I voiced my Chaqa townread during D2. I don't think he would be this lazy as scum. I also think his play is detrimental to town, so I'd like him to change it.

The first is that you seem confident Chaqa is town, the second is that you implied the mafia were apathetic about D2 EOD, which would apply to Chaqa.

I can see general apathy and also specifically think that Chaqa is town. I find people who were here and didn't actually seem invested in affecting the outcome more suspicious than those who were simply absent, and there's a meta history of Chaqa being more invested as scum.

That description may fit what damo did, but I think Bonatogether actively tried to get HB DKed over Temasek, and rdrivera actively tried to get Temasek DKed over HB, so I find your conclusion suspicious, because there would be scum motivation for it if Bonatogether and rdrivera are town or if Temasek is mafia.

[ghug]

The first is that you seem confident Chaqa is town, the second is that you implied the mafia were apathetic about D2 EOD, which would apply to Chaqa.

I can see general apathy and also specifically think that Chaqa is town. I find people who were here and didn't actually seem invested in affecting the outcome more suspicious than those who were simply absent, and there's a meta history of Chaqa being more invested as scum.

That description may fit what damo did, but I think Bonatogether actively tried to get HB DKed over Temasek, and rdrivera actively tried to get Temasek DKed over HB, so I find your conclusion suspicious, because there would be scum motivation for it if Bonatogether and rdrivera are town or if Temasek is mafia.

I think rd's behavior was performative because he had no real stake. He seemed more concerned with making bona look bad than with catching Tem. That to me does reflect apathy about the result. (For clarity, I think this is plausibly a bus.)

Bona defending Tem is certainly a possibility. If we're in a world where Bona is scum and rd is town, Tem looks like scum, which is a connection I drew as I was making the apathy comment, but something about bona:s EoD nonchelance leads me to believe that he wasn't acting to save a teammate. If that's the case, regardless of whether either of them is scum individually, it doesn't appear that there was a concerted effort from anyone to protect teammate Temasek.

[rdrivera2005]

So I feel like the most likely is that EoD apathy means it was TvT and we should be looking at people like Bona/Rd/damo. If Tem is scum, maybe bona, maybe heartthrob, maybe damo, but none of those really feel quite right, which leads me back to the former. People who were totally absent?

It was a complicated EOD with neither Tem nor Ham voting each other. My vote for Them was baiting a trap (see my response to Bozo - "To see"). I wasn't particularly bothered who went as long as it was an off-sweeter. I was monitoring and ready to shift if a tie looked likely.

I haven't done a VCA yet but the immediate thing that strikes me is how many were not around EOD.

The relative EOD apathy could indicate TvT.

Maybe it's something like Bunny Macca rdr. Or swap one for ghug/Jamie/Will .

These posts are strangely similar, did you come up with this template in mafia chat?

What exactly made D2 EOD seem more apathetic that a typical EOD? Why does such alleged apathy lead to suspecting the players listed?

Nobody seemed that concerned with trying to make things happen, and EoD was relatively quiet for a D2. It could simply be the holiday and the weekend and the long day, and that did probably have some effect, but the mutedness still suggests to me that a lot of people didn't care.

That leads me to townread the sort of people, like you (and me) who had interest in making it interesting, and suspect the sort of people who were posturing (like rd) or whose actions seem incongruous with a townie perspective (bona and damo).

I think you are the one posturing now. I clearly explained why Bona behavior is really irritating to me, even if Ham have flipped scum. Using the site features or limitations to affect the voting isn't acceptable to me. And if you can't understand this, just fuck off.

[bozotheclown]

I was looking through Hamilton's old posts since sweet apparently has a history of advocating for bussing and Ham was sweet's first vote, and saw this one which I missed the first time I was reading through the thread

I found Macca voting for Bona due to his predecessor's actions and pulling out due to out-of-game stuff fairly interesting. A "sit back with popcorn" feel perhaps, and since the sweet wagon was going nowhere at the time I made my post I changed my vote

Macca didn't say anything about the sub request as a reason for scum reading that slot.

I probably worded it poorly, but I was aware that the substitution had no impact on Macca's vote, in fact, it made Macca pull her vote out of ND/Bona

From my view, the way things happened was.

>ND acted very hostile, enough for Macca to think he's scum on reread
>ND subs out for Bona
>Macca rereads the thread due to missing early game, and votes for Bona due to ND's actions before subbing out
>Macca changes vote to No Kill due to out-of-game factors regarding Bona

I just found this sequence interesting, and suspicious on first glance. But come to think of it now it feels more like town behaviour

Ham's wagon has been picking up steam. On D1 sweet was the only one to have voted for him at any point. Sweet apparently has a history of advocating for bussing, and jumped off Ham's wagon to ND/Bona in an extremely forced and suspicious way.

##Vote Ham

##Vote Macca

Gone through her iso and she has posted zero concrete reads and half of her posts are about her out of game relation with Bona. I'm usually a lurker but this is just taking lurking to brand new dimensions

Temasek going from Macca's D1 being "more like town behaviour" to voting for her when HB's wagon started dissipating looks scum motivated.

[bozotheclown]

I can see general apathy and also specifically think that Chaqa is town. I find people who were here and didn't actually seem invested in affecting the outcome more suspicious than those who were simply absent, and there's a meta history of Chaqa being more invested as scum.

That description may fit what damo did, but I think Bonatogether actively tried to get HB DKed over Temasek, and rdrivera actively tried to get Temasek DKed over HB, so I find your conclusion suspicious, because there would be scum motivation for it if Bonatogether and rdrivera are town or if Temasek is mafia.

I think rd's behavior was performative because he had no real stake. He seemed more concerned with making bona look bad than with catching Tem. That to me does reflect apathy about the result. (For clarity, I think this is plausibly a bus.)

Bona defending Tem is certainly a possibility. If we're in a world where Bona is scum and rd is town, Tem looks like scum, which is a connection I drew as I was making the apathy comment, but something about bona:s EoD nonchelance leads me to believe that he wasn't acting to save a teammate. If that's the case, regardless of whether either of them is scum individually, it doesn't appear that there was a concerted effort from anyone to protect teammate Temasek.

I think it is probably true that the other mafia would not try to actively save Temasek there, and would be more likely to bus. However, when HB flipped town, my reaction was regret that we did not DK Temasek, not a conclusion Temasek was probably town. If Temasek is mafia, your vote to make it 4-3 seems like it could have been a bus.

In the case where Temasek is mafia, that only leave 2 mafia to be apathetic about the D2 DK. If a player not online like Just is one, that only leaves one mafia, not enough to significantly affect the level of apathy.

[Jamiet99uk]

Nobody seemed that concerned with trying to make things happen, and EoD was relatively quiet for a D2. It could simply be the holiday and the weekend and the long day, and that did probably have some effect, but the mutedness still suggests to me that a lot of people didn't care.

That leads me to townread the sort of people, like you (and me) who had interest in making it interesting, and suspect the sort of people who were posturing (like rd) or whose actions seem incongruous with a townie perspective (bona and damo).

I think you are the one posturing now. I clearly explained why Bona behavior is really irritating to me, even if Ham have flipped scum. Using the site features or limitations to affect the voting isn't acceptable to me. And if you can't understand this, just fuck off.

What "site features or limitations" are you talking about, Rdr?

[ghug]

These posts are strangely similar, did you come up with this template in mafia chat?

What exactly made D2 EOD seem more apathetic that a typical EOD? Why does such alleged apathy lead to suspecting the players listed?

Nobody seemed that concerned with trying to make things happen, and EoD was relatively quiet for a D2. It could simply be the holiday and the weekend and the long day, and that did probably have some effect, but the mutedness still suggests to me that a lot of people didn't care.

That leads me to townread the sort of people, like you (and me) who had interest in making it interesting, and suspect the sort of people who were posturing (like rd) or whose actions seem incongruous with a townie perspective (bona and damo).

I think you are the one posturing now. I clearly explained why Bona behavior is really irritating to me, even if Ham have flipped scum. Using the site features or limitations to affect the voting isn't acceptable to me. And if you can't understand this, just fuck off.

Site features?

[ghug]

That description may fit what damo did, but I think Bonatogether actively tried to get HB DKed over Temasek, and rdrivera actively tried to get Temasek DKed over HB, so I find your conclusion suspicious, because there would be scum motivation for it if Bonatogether and rdrivera are town or if Temasek is mafia.

I think rd's behavior was performative because he had no real stake. He seemed more concerned with making bona look bad than with catching Tem. That to me does reflect apathy about the result. (For clarity, I think this is plausibly a bus.)

Bona defending Tem is certainly a possibility. If we're in a world where Bona is scum and rd is town, Tem looks like scum, which is a connection I drew as I was making the apathy comment, but something about bona:s EoD nonchelance leads me to believe that he wasn't acting to save a teammate. If that's the case, regardless of whether either of them is scum individually, it doesn't appear that there was a concerted effort from anyone to protect teammate Temasek.

I think it is probably true that the other mafia would not try to actively save Temasek there, and would be more likely to bus. However, when HB flipped town, my reaction was regret that we did not DK Temasek, not a conclusion Temasek was probably town. If Temasek is mafia, your vote to make it 4-3 seems like it could have been a bus.

In the case where Temasek is mafia, that only leave 2 mafia to be apathetic about the D2 DK. If a player not online like Just is one, that only leaves one mafia, not enough to significantly affect the level of apathy.

And yet it was an apathetic EoD!

[BunnyGo]

These posts are strangely similar, did you come up with this template in mafia chat?

What exactly made D2 EOD seem more apathetic that a typical EOD? Why does such alleged apathy lead to suspecting the players listed?

Nobody seemed that concerned with trying to make things happen, and EoD was relatively quiet for a D2. It could simply be the holiday and the weekend and the long day, and that did probably have some effect, but the mutedness still suggests to me that a lot of people didn't care.

That leads me to townread the sort of people, like you (and me) who had interest in making it interesting, and suspect the sort of people who were posturing (like rd) or whose actions seem incongruous with a townie perspective (bona and damo).

I think you are the one posturing now. I clearly explained why Bona behavior is really irritating to me, even if Ham have flipped scum. Using the site features or limitations to affect the voting isn't acceptable to me. And if you can't understand this, just fuck off.

I can’t recall rdr ever swearing at someone. Especially in anger. Even when I used similar site features.

I think I town read him for it.

I also think he needs to get to the beach. It’s summer there!

[bozotheclown]

I think rd's behavior was performative because he had no real stake. He seemed more concerned with making bona look bad than with catching Tem. That to me does reflect apathy about the result. (For clarity, I think this is plausibly a bus.)

Bona defending Tem is certainly a possibility. If we're in a world where Bona is scum and rd is town, Tem looks like scum, which is a connection I drew as I was making the apathy comment, but something about bona:s EoD nonchelance leads me to believe that he wasn't acting to save a teammate. If that's the case, regardless of whether either of them is scum individually, it doesn't appear that there was a concerted effort from anyone to protect teammate Temasek.

I think it is probably true that the other mafia would not try to actively save Temasek there, and would be more likely to bus. However, when HB flipped town, my reaction was regret that we did not DK Temasek, not a conclusion Temasek was probably town. If Temasek is mafia, your vote to make it 4-3 seems like it could have been a bus.

In the case where Temasek is mafia, that only leave 2 mafia to be apathetic about the D2 DK. If a player not online like Just is one, that only leaves one mafia, not enough to significantly affect the level of apathy.

And yet it was an apathetic EoD!

Even if I agreed with that, it is still suspicious to draw conclusions from it.