MAFIA 83: HALLOWE'EN IN THE TOYSHOP - GAME THREAD

[Hamilton Brian]

There is an alarming amount of apathy from a few peeps here

You calling apathy is a high level of hypocrisy, but I tend to agree.
Scum killed people who can think and analyze the game and we are in a position where town might lose because people are not willing to rethink the game.

I think scum are between you, ND, Spirit and Will, in this order. ND play is moving higher and higher on my radar, but HB and Macca seems dead set on Spirit.

It's not a stretch to say it's between those 4. I'd throw Kak in there too.

So let's put each player on a scale...
Demon vs Spirit:
Demon vs ND:
Demon vs Will:
Demon vs Kak:

Spirit vs ND:
Spirit vs Will:
Spirit vs Kak:

ND vs Will:
ND vs Kak:

Will vs Kak:

Who's going to tip the scales?

It might get tedious but all we have is time right now.

[rdrivera2005]

Want to start ruling out items unclaimed or unplayed? Hard with the deaths.

Didn't know what sweet had. Brain had the Replacement Skull? Or could it have been the Skeletal Armour? When something is referenced as a kill-attempt, does that reflect a NK?

2 Axes have been used, mine and the one to kill ghug. Still think it was mafia-driven.

At least 1 nurse has been used.

Have to go back but was there a night with no NK? So maybe that was using a Skeletal Armour?

Who's been roleblocked? Electroshield.

Any commuting done?

Haven't seen the impact of the power pill yet.

No word of the Mask and Bag.

Repair Kit, Detective Kit, Halloween Card, slime grenade, Replacement Skull, 1 nurse costume, and 2 axes. That's 8 used by my count.

ND claimed to have used the Mask and got the repair Kit from Vecna. And now I notice he only had the repair Kit on D2 and chose to repair a gun instead of the detective kit. Why toen xhoose a gun instead of a scan? I was giving a pass to ND because of him claiming the shot instead of just shooting and spreadng confusion. Now I have a lot of doubts.

[ND]

I'm town. If I need to die to help people get clarity on Spirit and Will then I am willing to end vote myself.

At the end of the day if I am a distraction then better for me to get voted out so you all can focus on Spirit - Will and win the game.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. But, I'm town and through the process of elimination it is very clear that Will + Spirit are not town.

DemonRHK is very unlikely to be scum due to how he used his item.

So, anyway, I'm fine self voting and killing myself if that knowledge can be used to win this thing.

[ND]

You've been doubting me since D3 @Rdr. If you think I'm scum then just vote me.

[ND]

##vote ND

There I made it easier for all of you with doubts.

[Hamilton Brian]

Can anyone comment about my theory that a scumteam of Demon + Spirit or Demon + ND makes most sense considering the use of the grenade? Leaving only 4 votes with a fellow scum being one of them practically guarantees that a scum won't be killed

DemonRHK(5) damo666 rdrivera2005 Kakarroto Hamilton Brian JustAGuyNamedWill
worcej(2) Macca573 SpiritoftheRadio
rdrivera2005(1) DemonRHK
Kakarroto(1) worcej
SpiritoftheRadio(1) ND

So let's run with your ND as mafia scenario. What's their motive for their vote as town? nothing much other than a persistent demonstration of vanity votes

What's their motive for their vote as mafia? Allows an easy miskill to happen but "Hey, no blood on my hands."

And what was the timeline? A vote cast with about an hour to go, and posting before EoD. I think they've expressed the why from their perspective.

The argument that worcej wouldn't have wanted a tie falls flat. Sometimes players don't get to make those choices or have their requests honoured.

[Hamilton Brian]

ND claimed to have used the Mask and got the repair Kit from Vecna. And now I notice he only had the repair Kit on D2 and chose to repair a gun instead of the detective kit. Why toen xhoose a gun instead of a scan? I was giving a pass to ND because of him claiming the shot instead of just shooting and spreadng confusion. Now I have a lot of doubts.

I need to go back to the timeline to verify, but that's a very interesting point.

[Hamilton Brian]

##UNEND

[Hamilton Brian]

Vecna was pretty salty with ND throughout N2.

[DemonRHK]

I feel the call needs to be between me spirit and will. Spirit and I are really polarizing and I do not like wills D1

I don’t see scum claiming a gunshot. But I can’t say for sure without looking over it myself. Maybe as I am going to sleep later tonight.

As far as hypocrisy, yea I wasn’t here for the first half of the game. We spent to damn day phases on a guilty, a lot of wheel spinning. At least that means I am not burnt out and can try to contribute more than I normally would in the late game

[Hamilton Brian]

Alright everyone. It’s time for a serious post. I apologize for the faux posts throughout the night and my deliberate misdirection.

@Macca, might need you to reconsider your vote. Give this a read and share some thoughts.

[Hamilton Brian]

7 - 1 or 6 - 2.

Let's think in terms of 6-2.

We guess wrong again, 5-2, then 4-2 into D6.

We need an objectively open and shut case. Problem is...there''s 3 players with smear on them. A lot of plausible deniability with each of their stories.

I wonder how things would be different had you not chucked that grenade.

[Hamilton Brian]

ND, why was the repair of the gun more important than repair of the detective kit?

[ND]

I encourage you to vote for me so I can be eliminated.

I'm in the bracket of unclears [DemonRHK, Will, Spirit, me]

That bracket needs to be reduced. Plus, there are clears with doubts about my alignment and I don't want to get into a end game scenario where the scum use my shot on Vecna as fodder for justifying my death thus causing the town to lose. Better for me to make my exit now rather than later.

Spirit and Will are already planting these seeds and Rdr is receptive to it. With me out of the way then perhaps you all will be able to see it more clearly. It's fairly obvious that DemonRHK isn't scum so with me gone then it should allow you all to unite.

As for your question Hamilton, I didn't even consider repairing the detective kit. When I saw that I had stolen the repair kit my first reaction was to repair the gun. I knew that I could shoot Brainbomb, but decided to take the gamble on Vecna given my read of the situation and the fact that the mafia left a player openly claiming to have the gun alive.

Getting the kit was never something I considered.

[Hamilton Brian]

Thanks for the response.

Here's a shitty thought I had while just out walking the dogs.

SO I thought, if Kak were mafia, they'd opt to kill Rivera immediately, get someone else to claim the card, and together they could ride into the final 5. But Rivera lives on, so Kak is town too.

But wait.

I am thinking, "You know, the master mafia plot would have been to get the Halloween Card N1 or whenever it's sent, proceed to NK the sender, then have a mafia hold out long enough to whittle the player pool then claim it for cred."

Tell me that's not what has happened. Goddamned game is filling my leisure hours!

[Hamilton Brian]

What night did you send the card Rivera?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I encourage you to vote for me so I can be eliminated.

1) I'm in the bracket of unclears [DemonRHK, Will, Spirit, me]

2) That bracket needs to be reduced. a. Plus, there are clears with doubts about my alignment and I don't want to get into a end game scenario where the scum use my shot on Vecna as fodder for justifying my death thus causing the town to lose. a. Better for me to make my exit now rather than later.

3) a. Spirit and Will are already planting these seeds and Rdr is receptive to it. With me out of the way then perhaps you all will be able to see it more clearly. b. It's fairly obvious that DemonRHK isn't scum so with me gone then it should allow you all to unite.

4) As for your question Hamilton, I didn't even consider repairing the detective kit. When I saw that I had stolen the repair kit my first reaction was to repair the gun. I knew that I could shoot Brainbomb, but decided to take the gamble on Vecna given my read of the situation and the fact that the mafia left a player openly claiming to have the gun alive.

5) Getting the kit was never something I considered.

I will go through this bit by bit. ND ain’t lookin good right now. Still not gonna vote ND tho bc I think Spirit and Demon are way better choices. Heck. Even I’M a better choice then ND. But only i know I’m not mafia. So this post exists.

1. (Almost) Correct. This bracket contains all the mafia (most likely) in the game. If not then we’re fucked. If all four people in this bracket are dead and the game continues then Kak is mafia for sure. I don’t think Kak is mafia tho :/

2a. Yes but these doubts are negligable.
2b. Please don’t you idiot. If you go and are town we have (potentiall) a guessing game between Spirit and Demon.

3a. What seeds?!? That ND is mafia? You need to be more self aware. Check points 4 and 5 for some back to this accusation.
3b. Demon isn’t clear. The grenade could just be a bad mafia play that lucked out. We don’t know. This is a VERY bold claim to make in final 8.

4. THIS is suspicious. Knowing how observant and keen you are in this game, you can’t possibly expect us to believe you just forgot it exists, or worse, didn’t care much. With the detective kit the mafia can’t really get the town to kill an innocent without immediately getting killed afterward. But the axe. Oh the stupid axe.

5. The damn axe can be used without any blowback. As mafia, you could potentially kill town with minimal reprocussions, and do one of two things. You could kill someone you want out and not tell anyone, causing further confusion, or you could claim that it was a mistake, making everyone think “wow no mafia would admit to that”. ND is a damn hypocrite.

ND: remember when Will scumread Macca? Golly gee this is scum telling

Will: It didn’t even cross my mind that Macca wasn’t mafia.

ND: oh ok thanks for admitting it that clears it up. Clearly not mafia.

[ND]

Thanks for the response.

Here's a shitty thought I had while just out walking the dogs.

SO I thought, if Kak were mafia, they'd opt to kill Rivera immediately, get someone else to claim the card, and together they could ride into the final 5. But Rivera lives on, so Kak is town too.

But wait.

I am thinking, "You know, the master mafia plot would have been to get the Halloween Card N1 or whenever it's sent, proceed to NK the sender, then have a mafia hold out long enough to whittle the player pool then claim it for cred."

Tell me that's not what has happened. Goddamned game is filling my leisure hours!

I doubt it. If I understand you right then you are speculating that they could both be scum. One of them got the card. They kill the sender and then they ride that to the win. For starters, if there was significant pushback on their gamble and one of them was voted out then they simply lose. Everything would have to go right for them to make this kind of gamble and actually succeed.

I think the answer is far more simple and that the scum is Spirit/Will through process of elimination.

[DemonRHK]

Thanks for the response.

Here's a shitty thought I had while just out walking the dogs.

SO I thought, if Kak were mafia, they'd opt to kill Rivera immediately, get someone else to claim the card, and together they could ride into the final 5. But Rivera lives on, so Kak is town too.

But wait.

I am thinking, "You know, the master mafia plot would have been to get the Halloween Card N1 or whenever it's sent, proceed to NK the sender, then have a mafia hold out long enough to whittle the player pool then claim it for cred."

Tell me that's not what has happened. Goddamned game is filling my leisure hours!

I am not going to lie, as soon as rdr claimed a similar thought crossed my mind, but I dropped it when I read the card was town only. Unfortunately I think the connection and the story makes sense but Kak ain’t clear by a fuggin mile. He’s all but pocketed rdr regardless of alignment.

I am starting to lean Will > Spirit > Kak but if I move I am 100% fead

[ND]

The only mafia kill that bothers me is Darg N2. The Bozo kill N1 makes sense to me and I speculated at length about this in my N2 post. The N3 attempt on Macca makes sense and so does the Damo N4 kill. They started to shift to killing townclears or attempting to kill townclears after N2.

So, for your theory to be correct then the real card sender would need to be Darg and I did do a quick dive through his posts, but I didn't really see anything that would suggest he sent a card to Kak. He was heavily scumreading kak N1 on page 51.

Thus, again I doubt that either Kak or Rdr are scum. That being said, there must be a reason for why they killed Darg which is a mystery.