MAFIA 83: HALLOWE'EN IN THE TOYSHOP - GAME THREAD

[TheMadMonarch]

You'll probably think I shouldn't post this at night but as I am likely NK I must.

I have a theory about darg's NK. Maybe Kak is scum and darg sent the card. If Kak is scum I think the cardholder would be NKd. In particular if Kak is scum the Macca NK makes no sense as a likely save target unless the cardholder WAS ALREADY DEAD.

Conversely, if the card holder is still alive then I think this more or less clears Kak.

Therefore I propose that at start of D5 the cardholder should reveal thus giving us two more [almost] clears thus reducing the POE to 4 and likely town victory. By my reckoning the possible cardholders are: Spirit, Will, rdr, deaddarg, deadbozo or not in play and Kak is lying (negligible I'd have thought).

This is my idea of likely scum order in the event of possible claimants:-

Claimant Scum Order
None Kak Spirit Will rdr Demon ND
Spirit Demon Will rdr ND
Will Spirit Demon rdr ND
rdr Spirit Demon Will ND

I think it reasonable to give the cardholder 24 hours to claim. If 24 hours into D5 there is no claim I think you can start voting Kak.

agreed here

[Hamilton Brian]

Kak and Will are viable scum candidates. Spirit takes the cake though.

Will being scum would be funny actually lol.

I’ve never been known to be a comedian

will is town

scanned?

[Hamilton Brian]

And who else have you scanned, Macca? I seem to be losing track.

[TheMadMonarch]

And who else have you scanned, Macca? I seem to be losing track.

I only get one? All items are single use? You didn't know that?

[TheMadMonarch]

I’ve never been known to be a comedian

will is town

scanned?

no

He just feels very towny. It was my opinion.

[Hamilton Brian]

And who else have you scanned, Macca? I seem to be losing track.

I only get one? All items are single use? You didn't know that?

Der! You’re right. Right at the top of the bloody list. Never mind.

[ND]

You'll probably think I shouldn't post this at night but as I am likely NK I must.

I have a theory about darg's NK. Maybe Kak is scum and darg sent the card. If Kak is scum I think the cardholder would be NKd. In particular if Kak is scum the Macca NK makes no sense as a likely save target unless the cardholder WAS ALREADY DEAD.

Conversely, if the card holder is still alive then I think this more or less clears Kak.

Therefore I propose that at start of D5 the cardholder should reveal thus giving us two more [almost] clears thus reducing the POE to 4 and likely town victory. By my reckoning the possible cardholders are: Spirit, Will, rdr, deaddarg, deadbozo or not in play and Kak is lying (negligible I'd have thought).

This is my idea of likely scum order in the event of possible claimants:-

Claimant Scum Order
None Kak Spirit Will rdr Demon ND
Spirit Demon Will rdr ND
Will Spirit Demon rdr ND
rdr Spirit Demon Will ND

I think it reasonable to give the cardholder 24 hours to claim. If 24 hours into D5 there is no claim I think you can start voting Kak.

agreed here

Also agree with Damo's post.

[Hamilton Brian]

I am pretty much in agreement with Damo's post as well.

Looking at yesterday's EoD it's as though we're doing everything we can to snatch defeat for ourselves. That voting was very unfortunate and that grenade sucked ass.

[Kakarroto]

@card sender: I thought about it and think damo's proposal sounds fair. I'll hand the decision to you if you want to unveil yourself tomorrow within the first 24 hours. I personally think it is overall better if you do so, however I will not make the decision for you. If you don't, I'll live with it (or not, I guess).

I also don't know how good the reduced pool of people who didn't claim their item will guard you, but it might buy you another day, which might be crucial. Whatever you decide, I'll support your decision to the upmost of my abilities.

I wish a Happy Hallo Wien to you

[Hamilton Brian]

I'm of the mind that a)Demon be the kill for D5, b) we don't hammer, and c) all, particularly hard and soft clears try to get syntheses of current game play of spirit, will, rivera, kak, and ND done before EoN.

I think Damo's thinking around the card is sound but I think we also need to generate some clear thoughts around the players and arrive at some form of concensus for moving forward.

[damo666]

I'm of the mind that a)Demon be the kill for D5, b) we don't hammer, and c) all, particularly hard and soft clears try to get syntheses of current game play of spirit, will, rivera, kak, and ND done before EoN.

I think Damo's thinking around the card is sound but I think we also need to generate some clear thoughts around the players and arrive at some form of concensus for moving forward.

OK these are my thoughts on the non 'clears' [alpha order]

Demon - because of timing of grenade slightly more likely to be town than scum but maybe he was unable to be online to save brain. Slight lean to town but probably needs to be the next kill in the event of a miskill.

JWill - leantown BUT if Spi or rdr claim the card (and Kak confirms) then Will's chances of being deep scum escalate although probably third behind the other non-claimer and Demon.

Kak - I assume from his response to my proposal he is town but if he is scum what choice would he have, his hint that there might not be a reveal (I'll leave it to the cardholder to decide type stuff) might be cover. Quite simply I think with a card reveal he is town otherwise he's scum.

ND - strongly lean town, if he's deepscum I think we will probably lose.

rdr - if Spirit or Will claim the card (and Kak confirms) I think he is quite likely scum. With no card reveal I'd put him town (and obviously if he has the card he's town).

Spi - town if he has the card, scum if rdr or Will have it, probably Kak's partner if no reveal (unless Kak sole remaining scum).

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE

There was a time change in the UK and Ireland today due to the end of BST.

For the bot:

DEADLINE MOVED 1 H LATER.

[Hamilton Brian]

Spirit's long post

What's the difference between a, "slight town" and a "Slight town" the same for the inverse, "slight scum" and "Slight scum" because you don't uniformly capitalize your terms.

There is no difference

As for the content, it's a mixed bag but there are a few things I think are fair. I have a few follow-up's for you.

-What exactly has Will and HB done that you would classify as, "stupid shit?" I have yet to hear any kind of explanation for Will's litany of contradictory statements. And I still haven't received a satisfactory answer to his statement about Macca from Page 11. This is a guy, who claims that he 'reads' people for being town because they post and who claims he reads people as 'scum' because they don't post. So, why single out Macca and scum read her? That's something that should be answered and I wouldn't sweep it under the rug by saying that it is "townies gaffing about town."

examples of stupid shit would be HB posting I may be scum for "fleeing" after "editgate" and some of his other comments in response. Like you said, Will has made several inconsistent posts, I am not bothered by them the way you are, I think it is normal for some to flail as town day 1, and say some inconsistent things. I feel like that is more town indicative than mafia indicative unless there is a real pathway towards implicating someone or forming a wagon.

-Why do you feel bad for someone (Macca) as scum for making a post and if I understand you correctly because you interpreted it as nice? Quote, "while I feel bad for reading that as scummy."

-Concerning Bozo, like the post Bozo made where he popped in and stated that someone who hasn't posted is town? You find that, "correct and helpful" then?

For Macca, upon rereading, I think it is less nice and her comment about her trusting me was likely just a cheeky response to my donut post. Besides scum reading brain (which I get since he is hard to read) and Ghug (which based on the evidence at the time, I didn't get, but now sort of agree with due to his HB stuff and the overly carebear attitude). I originally felt bad to just say that someone being overly nice strikes me as sucking up and kind of reads mafia to me. I think that makes sense because being nice is generally a good thing, and scum reading everyone who is makes people less inclined to be nice, and I like nice.

Bozo was helpful to me by telling me about the mafia scorecard which let me find the old games I played in and reread some things to remember some of you more. I appreciate that, especially after brain got it wrong that I won as scum in the past and I believed it, until bozo gave the facts. He did not come off as scum while he did it.

-So you think there is merit to some of HB's suspicions from Page 20?

No? I scumread sweet more than HB out of the two. I just think HB got jumped on for making some dumb comments/jokes(?). But I think there is some merit to think mafia could be stoking the HB wagon, which is the main reason I've been interested in sweet, ghug and Bona.

-Oh god

=)

-Which one of my takes have you found decent? What does wagon building mean?

I like you not liking ghug or the instant town read of him, despite my trolling. I like you were instantly dismissive of the mass claim idea. I like that you interrogate folks in a way that does make things more clear, although I dont think my soul could bar the weight of being that aggressive myself. I admire it, although I wonder sometimes if you're inclined to tunnel vision a bit too much or it might just be part of the act because you think the intensity gets results. I do think your read on Will is wrong.

To me, wagon building is making small things a person does into bigger things or reading something someone did or said in a really uncharitable way in order to convince others to jump on a voting wagon. Recognizing it is subtle and judging if it is just a person getting lost in the sauce and tunnel visioning as a towny vs. trying to get someone else lynched as mafia or even as a towny who just wants anyone but them up there is an important thing to look for imo.

-I have noted a connection with Vecna, Macca, and Will from Page 11-12.

m'kay?

-Darg hasn't done anything to get any kind of read and he misspelled cemetary as cenetary.

His most recent post on page 18 contains several reads

Coming back to this post from D1. I swear there's a slip in here.

[Hamilton Brian]

Macca announced being saved so the saving Nurse must be alive so why would I as scum claim nurse and risk a counter? I saved my own kill? I'm scum with Macca? Ridiculous.

Spirit is scum and trying to spread doubt.

Can we exist in a world where 2 nurses exist, but neither knows the identify of the other, so...mafia could claim nurse with little pushback? I guess comes down to the massclaim if there will be one.

Just something I saw that caught me while reading Rivera.

[Hamilton Brian]

VOTE COUNT 4.9

Worcej (2) - Macca, SpiritoftheRadio
Kak (1) - Worcej
JustAGuyNamedWill (1) - ND

Worcej is set to be eliminated.

If you are really wanting to kill Worcej you need 3 votes on him.

I think Will or Demon are the best choices.

Is this the words of a mafia knowing that those 3 names (worcej, will, demon) are all town so the vote doesn't really matter OR town with a strong gut for will or demon?

[Hamilton Brian]

I want Spirit, Will, and Kak to each explain to me why they are not scum.

ALSO

If I am the consensus vote for EVERYONE (which would include mafia) that means I am 100% town BECAUSE mafia can’t afford to lose another teammate if there are 4 total

Not a bad point, when you think about it, but I doubt there'll be anymore 100% votes unless there's a hot-off-the-press counterclaim.

[Hamilton Brian]

Very quick readthrough of the 6 suspects; not a totally thorough review but I think I feel good with my thoughts.

Demon: looks bad with grenade but I am coming around to the thought it was town motivated. Probably town

Spirit: starts off jokey, against mass claim, making reference to participants lying, reads list D1: HB, Will, bozo, ghug, ND, darg townish; macca, bona, sweet, vecna, damo mafia-ish; nulls on brain, rivera, worcej, kak. Will is my strongest townread. Scumread sweet more than HB based on the interaction. Ding Dong scum is dead. Got on the “HB could be mafia” line of thinking. Night 1 reads were almost all problematic. Night 2 had more problematic reads where obvious town (because they’re dead) are listed as mafialeans.

Kind of makes for miskills. I am confident spirit is mafia.

Rivera: big time on ND for shooting Vecna; feel mostly town. Rivera is Rivera as any alignment so it's always difficult. There have been moments I've read something and thought, "Oh yeah, you're town." town

Kak: without the card in play, not overly suspicious but on my radar. Nothing really stands out. Not around a whole lot, only put out a few lines of thought. I could see kak as mafia.

Will: Is their reads what they are because they know? Brain 75% mafia…that is so blatant. But then wrong on others (50% worcej is mafia). Just feel like there’s a lot of “trying” happening that might be an attempt to cover guilt. I can see them as mafia.

ND: the heavy dive into Will, and the obstinate way in which they hung on to the vote. Gives me Don Rickles vibes. If the Analyses are written by a mafia member, then I applaud ND for the effort. I can’t see being able to do that as mafia; lies have to be concocted. I guess some players can do it but it takes effort. And keeping the story straight. The killing of Vecna…yes, misguided, but still gross. I get what Rivera was meaning before and I think bad decisions should expect to receive some level of justice. Demon made a bad play. ND made a bad play. I would expect that if I shot sweet and they weren’t mafia, I’d pay a price the next day. This event then proceeds to find ND in a self-pitying position. I alluded to the two sides of the coin in a post. Probably town

[Hamilton Brian]

Without a card-reveal plan in play, I'd see my order of kills to be Spirit, Demon, then Kak/Will if the first two don't flip mafia.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I don’t really think there’s much I can really do to prove my innocence that I haven’t already. I just feel like I can’t contribute much exept for a 100% gurantee that I will vote Demon

[Hamilton Brian]

I don’t really think there’s much I can really do to prove my innocence that I haven’t already. I just feel like I can’t contribute much exept for a 100% gurantee that I will vote Demon

Yes, Demon should pay. The boat kind of passed for ND although we shouldn't have let it.

Spirit, I think you've started off well but it just seems like your reads have been manufactured to NOT reflect the actual results. I don't know. My gut is telling me no good.