M82: Magic the Gathering Mafia [Game Thread]

[BunnyGo]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

The last paragraph is the only notes I take these games. Different peoples approach. So I can better read them.

[Vecna]

bona/kak/bunny then?

im really not sure about this game tbf. But that would be my best guess atm.

Maybe im wrong on sweet or HB. I doubt it, but im wrong pretty often.

Why is rdr not even mentioned? How do you and I have SUCH a different view of the game?

I might get pocketed but I think the few things he did post came from a towny mindset.

Regardless, he is so uninvolved this game its really hard to get a consistent read. Not a criticism of him, the same could be said of many people.

[Vecna]

I know people aren't used to performative sweetandcool, and I tend to play in a very guileless way.

However, I was being very performative N2. No, I don't think I'm locktown by any means, but I was relying on the fact that Bunny claimed I townslipped. I thought that was enough to secure me.

But now I've been betrayed by Bunny, and people hate performative sweetandcool, so I'm a bit worried. Actually, I think that's besides the point, because even if town doesn't fall into the trap of voting me, I don't think it's likely we'll even come to a consensus in order to survive today anyways.

I am disturbed at the mudslinging going on between Bunny and Vecna, who I'm pretty sure are both town. Now Bona is chiming in against Bunny too apparently.

I definitely need to take another gander, but Vecna, Bunny, Kak, and I are town (I know I'm town because I know my alignment).

If I'm wrong anywhere, I guess it must be one of Vecna and Bunny. For various reasons Kak was already a town read, and on top of that the whole GM thing strongly indicated Town for Kak (I think Town was done dirty by that whole situation, so I don't think it's wrong to use that information [and yes I could be wrong about GM motivation, but I find it hard to believe Kak wouldn't be modkilled if they were Mafia]).

Best to not look into such things or apply any meaningfull deductions based on it.

The GM might just as well be pissed because scum did a gambit to appear to be unaware town of the day shortening counting on not being modkilled since that generally doesnt happen with shortened days.

We simply do not know what happened or didnt happen, so treat it as a non-event.

[Vecna]

Sweet. I’m mostly with you.

Sadly bona was a townread of mine…so if I’m right about him and he’s wrong about me this time.

Either way I want to point out to EVERYONE that rdr is playing identical to last game and is also STILL ALIVE. Both are scum tells. He’s also in everyone’s POE (except Vecna, who didn’t even MENTION RDR!!)

##vote rdr

this is once again false. I mentioned RDR more than most, and I mentioned my reasons for thinking he's more likely town than scum.

The mindmeld has happened once or twice in the past when he was scum just randomly talking about the same times I noticed (possible since its a short game and theres not that much to notice).

Like, I dont think scum RDR notices subtle differences in sweet's play from last game. You only notice those as town thats actively looking, or unless youre both scum and you know theres likely to be subtle differences because youre scum together.

[Vecna]

I know people aren't used to performative sweetandcool, and I tend to play in a very guileless way.

However, I was being very performative N2. No, I don't think I'm locktown by any means, but I was relying on the fact that Bunny claimed I townslipped. I thought that was enough to secure me.

But now I've been betrayed by Bunny, and people hate performative sweetandcool, so I'm a bit worried. Actually, I think that's besides the point, because even if town doesn't fall into the trap of voting me, I don't think it's likely we'll even come to a consensus in order to survive today anyways.

I am disturbed at the mudslinging going on between Bunny and Vecna, who I'm pretty sure are both town. Now Bona is chiming in against Bunny too apparently.

I definitely need to take another gander, but Vecna, Bunny, Kak, and I are town (I know I'm town because I know my alignment).

If I'm wrong anywhere, I guess it must be one of Vecna and Bunny. For various reasons Kak was already a town read, and on top of that the whole GM thing strongly indicated Town for Kak (I think Town was done dirty by that whole situation, so I don't think it's wrong to use that information [and yes I could be wrong about GM motivation, but I find it hard to believe Kak wouldn't be modkilled if they were Mafia]).

I’m not slinging mud at Vecna. I’m slinging mud at you. You deserve it. Stop harassing the GM. That was really uncool.

Vecna, we cool? Did I miss something?

im also unaware of why being suspicious of one another would constitute mudslinging.

we cool

[Vecna]

This isn't critical analysis by any means, but I think Fox was the kill because while they were pretty suspicious D1 (at least to me), ghug gave them a vote of confidence, I decided to follow ghug's lead, and nobody really seemed to suspect them anymore. Until the absolute end of night where reads list showed Fox paranoia.

I think Vecna was the most obvious target, but perhaps they weren't targeted because:

1. They feared town power and didn't want to target the most obvious target.
2. Vecna is a power wolf.
3. They want us to think Vecna is a power wolf.

It could also be reads based and I'll look into it but somehow I doubt that was the real motive (not that I'm dissing Fox's read, it's possible they were extremely accurate, who knows).

I think the reason is this; fox was constantly speaking from a place of authority.

This is very often a tell of being a PR. If I was scum I also wouldve taken him out.

He also did some things that made him very obviously town to the few of us paying attention to it. There was no way I was ever voting him this game. He was also being a decent voice of reason, stating some good logic on not killing Worcej.

Its a shame I was the only one swayed, but I cant really complain since I was again absent from EoD.

[Vecna]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

i disagree

bunny normally does not push this hard over so weak a read. i have experience being on the receiving end of many a bunny push and case (like almost every game) that were stronger than this, and it just does not feel the same to me

wallpost + this reasoning is actually pretty solid.

I know bona is a really decent scumplayer as well, but this all felt pretty well formulated.

[Vecna]

im really hoping I didnt convince myself of bullshit based on some weak tone reads (regarding HB for example)

[Vecna]

all the people currently active at least feels theyre trying to solve, and while theres bound to be a furry between us doing a good job faking, I cannot shake the feeling a bunch of people are getting way too easy of a pass.

[BunnyGo]

all the people currently active at least feels theyre trying to solve, and while theres bound to be a furry between us doing a good job faking, I cannot shake the feeling a bunch of people are getting way too easy of a pass.

Sweet's the one I'm most worried about in that regard.

kaka I'm sold on. Will tip my hat to him if he wins for scum.

bona I respect his scum game. But I'm pretty confident he's town.

[rdrivera2005]

I really regret not tying the vote D2. Fox and I were there, and town input was so low it actually made sense to tie. Though I think we wholly were comfortable enough with voting worcej, I think any VCA for that day is uninformative.

But I never thought of it at the time because tying is normally strictly verboten.

Glad you didn't tie as we would still be at milo and with less info. I know I am a big part of the problem not being around but a DK with only 3 votes show the overall town apathy. Scum just need to not do anything só little info from the VCA. Last vote was mine with 3 hours to EOD.

[rdrivera2005]

all the people currently active at least feels theyre trying to solve, and while theres bound to be a furry between us doing a good job faking, I cannot shake the feeling a bunch of people are getting way too easy of a pass.

I have a unique point of view because I know my alignment. The only player that doesn't look tryng to solve is HB (we can also say this to me and you, but will consider you town for this example).

So, there must be two scum between Bunny, Bona, Sweet and Kak, from my point of view. I just can't make my mind on who. I think Bona's case is good but also who is his partner then? Bunny and Sweet? Wild. Bunny and Kak? Possible.

You could also have pocketed me and it's you and one of them.

In full honesty I think town will lose, unless some absolutely brilliant play, as I am an obvious DK.

[Vecna]

hmmm, it might be the case that scum is currently even trying to bus their black night, since that also means they win, doesnt it?

[Vecna]

Ergo, bona might just be making a convincing case on Bunny because bunny is the black knight.

Meaning that even if we kill bunny and thats his role, we do not have a daykill next day, meaning scum also auto win.

If that role exist, the only way we can still win is if we kill that 1 last.

This ofcourse only applies if theyre gambling on no day exiler existing.

[Vecna]

guess scum mightve also just been killing to avoid the serra angel

[rdrivera2005]

Ergo, bona might just be making a convincing case on Bunny because bunny is the black knight.

Meaning that even if we kill bunny and thats his role, we do not have a daykill next day, meaning scum also auto win.

If that role exist, the only way we can still win is if we kill that 1 last.

This ofcourse only applies if theyre gambling on no day exiler existing.

I don't think there is an arsonist. Só, it's 2 goon woebringer and phrase vanilizer in play. This setup is sooo Mafia sided....

[sweetandcool]

##vote hamil, mark hamil.

Reasons for the naked vote?

[Hamilton Brian]

Ok, back from the cottage a little sunburnt, a little tired, a little...

[Hamilton Brian]

I think I will sit with the outcome, and the resulting conversations, after the EoN2.

I think this has been such a low activity game, barring some prolific writers, that mafia have effectively been able to coast and get the rest of us to fracture into fingerpointing and innuendo.

I'm open to conversations right now but I also want to synthesize yesterday.

[Kakarroto]

Won't vote:

Vecna -- Vecna could very well be the fearkill tonight. If he's not, I don't know what to do with the chance that he could be playing a great game as scum, and it's possible scum is gambling that we'll turn on him because "he should be dead by now." If Vecna is the night kill, there is unfortunately little to read into that.

Bunny -- Not convinced that Bunny would be taking this tone as scum. Maybe. I think the main thing to say is that he and sweet are not scum together. Also possibly a nightkill candidate, as Bunny could very well come alive late game, in which case it may be worth thinking about who would do that. Probably not Rdr, but I think it makes sense that Kak, Bona, or Sweet could push that NK.

Hamilton -- Still not sure that Kak-Hamilton works as a team.

Would vote:

Kak -- I think he was saved D1, and I think he planned on avoiding D2 knowing that it would be shortened.

Rdr -- There's a possibility that Rdr helped save Kak on D1 and Bona on D2. I'm not sure he'd be that blatant about it, though, and it may be a simpler explanation that a townie was wrong twice in a row (which happens plenty).

Sweet -- Could make sense as a Bona-Kak teammate.

Bona -- I think Bona helped save Kak D1 and I think he makes sense as Kak's partner.

with now knowing fox was actually town, I can't believe he tunneled me that much. The bona-thing and the rd-thing for saving just makes no sense to me. Even if both are mafia, which I highly doubt, why would they save a town?

And I hate that brian is in his townreads. Regarding vecna, if he's town, he might be kept alive to stir up that fear, yeah, I can see that. Ugh.

Well the only really helpful is his read of bunny here, I think. Then again, fox is wrong on me. So I'm not sure how much I can give fox here. I'll consider his thoughts there at least for a little bit, I think.

You get death-tunnelled by town all the time.

This reads fake as fuck

nah, in the last games it was especially the mafia that pushed that hard, like jamie and bunny or DL. Town usually goes back on tunneling me. Well, jamie and bunny tried to do that too in the pirate game, to be fair, but not too much and it felt fake.

And fox felt malicious in the way he centered every theory around me as if he needed me to be gone. There was a time where I considered that he'd be the vanillizer since I tried to trigger the phrase and he just didn't like that. Though seeing that nothing happened there, we probably have no vanillizer in the game. Anyway, it felt not coming from a good place and like setting a stage, where he wanted D2 to be about something else and with the day shortened and then causing another mk today.

I guess I need to get better at reading fox.