M82: Magic the Gathering Mafia [Game Thread]

[rdrivera2005]

Sweet. I’m mostly with you.

Sadly bona was a townread of mine…so if I’m right about him and he’s wrong about me this time.

Either way I want to point out to EVERYONE that rdr is playing identical to last game and is also STILL ALIVE. Both are scum tells. He’s also in everyone’s POE (except Vecna, who didn’t even MENTION RDR!!)

##vote rdr

No, I am not playing like less game (on volume maybe, but last game I posted more, I usually post more as scum).

Last game I need to make a long run and I were really careful about my reads and votes and played all the game to lay low. This game I just don't care about this because I am town. And your argument about being alive be a scumtell with only two NKs isn't on good faith and makes me think you are scum tryng to find a target for today.

[BunnyGo]

Sweet. I’m mostly with you.

Sadly bona was a townread of mine…so if I’m right about him and he’s wrong about me this time.

Either way I want to point out to EVERYONE that rdr is playing identical to last game and is also STILL ALIVE. Both are scum tells. He’s also in everyone’s POE (except Vecna, who didn’t even MENTION RDR!!)

##vote rdr

No, I am not playing like less game (on volume maybe, but last game I posted more, I usually post more as scum).

Last game I need to make a long run and I were really careful about my reads and votes and played all the game to lay low. This game I just don't care about this because I am town. And your argument about being alive be a scumtell with only two NKs isn't on good faith and makes me think you are scum tryng to find a target for today.

Well...here's how I see it:

Last game you said "Bunny always scumreads me"

That's fine. So what do you do? Right away join me on that...get on my good side.

Then nobody is talking about you? Why is nobody talking about you?

I dunno.

Between that (which admittedly is circumstantial), and the fact I absolutely cannot put together a POE without you in it.

That said...we do need to all agree. And so far we don't. But we have time.

[sweetandcool]

Sweet. I’m mostly with you.

Sadly bona was a townread of mine…so if I’m right about him and he’s wrong about me this time.

Either way I want to point out to EVERYONE that rdr is playing identical to last game and is also STILL ALIVE. Both are scum tells. He’s also in everyone’s POE (except Vecna, who didn’t even MENTION RDR!!)

##vote rdr

No, I am not playing like less game (on volume maybe, but last game I posted more, I usually post more as scum).

Last game I need to make a long run and I were really careful about my reads and votes and played all the game to lay low. This game I just don't care about this because I am town. And your argument about being alive be a scumtell with only two NKs isn't on good faith and makes me think you are scum tryng to find a target for today.

Well...here's how I see it:

Last game you said "Bunny always scumreads me"

That's fine. So what do you do? Right away join me on that...get on my good side.

Then nobody is talking about you? Why is nobody talking about you?

I dunno.

Between that (which admittedly is circumstantial), and the fact I absolutely cannot put together a POE without you in it.

That said...we do need to all agree. And so far we don't. But we have time.

Analysis and PR reveals pending, since rdr has to be part of my pool, I am OK with voting them, though they are not my first choice. I will consolidate on them if need be, but they are not my very first choice.

In fact, I thought they had a good 1st day, which is why I suggested Vecna and damo as low posters to vote for, rather than even mentioning rdr.

[sweetandcool]

For my current town reads, I'm most leery about Bunny.

They claimed I townslipped. They didn't explain because they wanted more info from me without me knowing what they wanted, and this is fine.

But I think it's high time they explain what that was about. Because I've apparently revealed that I had not townslipped.

And the lack of explanation makes me paranoid that it was all just theater designed to make me townread them.

[BunnyGo]

For my current town reads, I'm most leery about Bunny.

They claimed I townslipped. They didn't explain because they wanted more info from me without me knowing what they wanted, and this is fine.

But I think it's high time they explain what that was about. Because I've apparently revealed that I had not townslipped.

And the lack of explanation makes me paranoid that it was all just theater designed to make me townread them.

The "townslip" was your wording originally suggested that you believed the early day was decided by a scum player DURING the day. It wasn't until much later (this last night I believe) that your wording unequivocally suggested otherwise.

[sweetandcool]

For my current town reads, I'm most leery about Bunny.

They claimed I townslipped. They didn't explain because they wanted more info from me without me knowing what they wanted, and this is fine.

But I think it's high time they explain what that was about. Because I've apparently revealed that I had not townslipped.

And the lack of explanation makes me paranoid that it was all just theater designed to make me townread them.

The "townslip" was your wording originally suggested that you believed the early day was decided by a scum player DURING the day. It wasn't until much later (this last night I believe) that your wording unequivocally suggested otherwise.

Oh yeah, I knew it had to be commanded at night.

[sweetandcool]

This isn't critical analysis by any means, but I think Fox was the kill because while they were pretty suspicious D1 (at least to me), ghug gave them a vote of confidence, I decided to follow ghug's lead, and nobody really seemed to suspect them anymore. Until the absolute end of night where reads list showed Fox paranoia.

I think Vecna was the most obvious target, but perhaps they weren't targeted because:

1. They feared town power and didn't want to target the most obvious target.
2. Vecna is a power wolf.
3. They want us to think Vecna is a power wolf.

It could also be reads based and I'll look into it but somehow I doubt that was the real motive (not that I'm dissing Fox's read, it's possible they were extremely accurate, who knows).

[sweetandcool]

I really regret not tying the vote D2. Fox and I were there, and town input was so low it actually made sense to tie. Though I think we wholly were comfortable enough with voting worcej, I think any VCA for that day is uninformative.

But I never thought of it at the time because tying is normally strictly verboten.

[sweetandcool]

Well looking back before Fox's EoN post, he touted Kak, Bona, Ham (with an outside chance of rdr).

ghug was suspecting Ham a bit, but his scumreads weren't very vocal.

He was town reading sweetandcool, Fox.

Maybe we just follow their lead and vote Ham?

I'm currently most down for that.

In fact, ##VOTE Ham

(I'm obviously willing to change my mind, but currently this is my favoured vote).

[Bonatogether]

bongo: pensees

by bona together

prologue: an interpretation of bungo

bunnygo our friend is a famous mechs guy. he likes asking detailed mechs questions. he likes figuring it out with the hard info. this is a true fact. what is supposition, however, is that i claim this is because bulugus dislikes the soft logic of reads. he does not reject it, because this would be to reject much of how the game is played, but it is not a favorite of his. we're kind of opposites because i hate mechs and pr fuckery and solely do like character analysis and vca (not claiming that anything is exclusive to either of us, except i'm the sole W taker here)

i note to the reader that i scumread bongo already, so this will not be a case from scratch, but rather a case demonstrating how this view fits with his actions


chapter 1

oh, bunny is here! Let me ask you: if you had a bullet in game, who would you shoot right now?

I've never missed. I wouldn't shoot yet.

bunny's first post of the game is interesting because the question being asked is not literally 'who would you eliminate right now?', but 'who do you believe is scum most right now?' bunny, however, interprets the question literally. he therefore provides no scumreads. this post is only 8 hours into a lowposting day 1, of course, but it could be read as not wanting to pick fights unnecessarily and early on

over the next 20 hours he only talks about board games i have no knowledge of and provides nothing to read him with

##vote sweet ##end

then this post comes. what to make of it? in context, it doesn't look like much, even if the end vote stands out and there's not an associated case publicized, but as we'll see, bunny has a repeated pattern of trying to push for early ends to days on often tenuous grounds in a game where we have very few kills to spare from very early on.

@hamBone

Do you have any opinions how the angel or virgin should play their roles?

Like: should angel choose their saves aggressively? Try to grab at least one scum in the mix?

the pr mechs talk is both in character for bunny and not helpful for town, but that's a point of best practices. one that bunny, as an experienced player, should know well

This game sucks.

Agreed. Like power grid.

Lol. I haven’t played since grad school. So it’s been a while.

Ok. Let’s solve this.

Or at least generate some discussion

Or just rush sweet. Join me?

Again, trying to rush a vote on someone. no case has been made and sweet has not even been mentioned beyond the vote. if it had stopped here, it'd have been understandable as a reaction test but the pattern continues through day 2 and into day 3 now.

Lol. I haven’t played since grad school. So it’s been a while.

Ok. Let’s solve this.

Or at least generate some discussion

Or just rush sweet. Join me?

Why'd you pick sweet?

Of all the meaningless opening posts, his were the least himself. I didn’t trust his non-careful reading while claiming stuff. Also he’s usually more invested in starting stuff. Here was just blah presence.

the first actual reason for sweet. this is a 'vibes'/'feels off' post that went through an english teacher. it says nothing.

Of all the meaningless opening posts, his were the least himself. I didn’t trust his non-careful reading while claiming stuff. Also he’s usually more invested in starting stuff. Here was just blah presence.

bunnygo not scumreading me means he's scum pocketing me

Based

This is why i started scumreading him. little known fact!

why are people end voting sweet?

Need to vote someone. Sweet was misreading the opening, which seems unlike him.

damo is totally real for this. again, this reason is a 'vibes' reason. who is less careful reading an opener because their pm said scum? it doesn't actually cohere as a reason to scumread.

Worth a shot trying to use strikethrough code. Oh well.

Did you pause in writing that post to go look up who had been posting what, and then go back and edit the post?

this is more substantive in that it's an actual thing that the actual person behind the screen under the username sweetandcool did, but bunny fails to connect this to why sweet is more likely to do this as scum than town. it looks better than his previous nonentity of a reason but it's still not up to snuff

So far I am liking ghug and Bona.

Probably because ghug was pocketing me by saying we were almost the same. And probably because Bona is feeling comfortably similar to M79.

I'm scumreading Bunny because they feel scummy. But actually, I've found the more scummy Bunny seems, the more Town they actually are.

Na, Bunny is just trying to stir up some drama, which would be good for the game.

[s]Conversely, worcej is trying to convince us the game[/s]

Crap, it turns out Bona and Bunny were the two players complaining about the game being dead. This is scummy talk. But I think Bunny is Town, and I don't really want to vote Bona yet.

I think I'll stick with Kak for now, maybe he'll sing for us if we keep up the pressure.

I like this post but I also didn't like this post, this makes sense?

I like the content but I don't feel that obvious town tone like last game where I knew D1 I will need to kill Seeet.

EXACTLY! It looks crafted in a way that suggests he's trying to appear like sweet while also not screwing up again like he did with his statement about kak in the opening.

This is not what rd actually said. It's similar lines but slightly different conclusions (clear scum vs ambivalence). this is reading into what rdr actually said beyond any purpose except that of the singleminded hammer wagon on sweet

I'd go coin flips on damo, kak, or sweetandcool today. Or roll a 6-sided die. Easier.

Why sweet?

monkaS

Kakarroto (3) sweetandcool Vecna damo666
sweetandcool (3) BunnyGo* rdrivera2005* Foxcastle
damo666 (2) Hamilton Brian ghug
ghug (2) Bonatogether worcej
Foxcastle (1) Kakarroto

End-votes (2/11):
BunnyGo rdrivera2005


No one is scheduled to die
34 minutes remain

so with me voting damo on the next post, it looks to me like the day was pretty much tvtvt and mafia just laid back.

Why do you think so? (I know why you think you're town...but sweet?)

into n1 - the monotonic reads continue. i'm getting bored

If Kak is scum and was saved, then his teammates look like two of Rdr, ghug, and bunny.

If it was TvT, then I need to think about that.

All four of the people you mentioned are out of my current PoE. What do you conclude if kak is town and it was a TvT finish?

ok, so he claims it's not a monoread situation, but no other reads have actually been produced. we'll have to see if they are.

If we use Fox's analysis, I don't think we could do worse than make a flip of Kak.

Am I wrong here? We know it is T vs ? at this point.

The other avenue is flipping around the Damo voters and sorting them? I know that puts me in the pile but that's the game.

Could also flip sweet with that analysis.

sigh. sweet sweet sweet. sweet? maybe even - sweet. teews. god

Doesn't anyone else think this looks ultra scummy? If Bunny or rdr were to shift off of sweetandcool after this comment, wouldn't it make them look bad? Doesn't this read as Fox trying to manipulate them into staying on sweetandcool and getting a MK?

Why are you referring to yourself in the third person? I don’t recall you ever going that before. Reeks of scum trying to seem impartial. Will need to dig through old games and see. Brb.

Hmmm. No, you did this a little last game too.

the first glimpse of the cold hard grasp of reality - there's not actually a reason why this would be scum indicative. ! ! !

no more scumreads have been produced to round out this claimed poe so far.

GughDamnit!

You guys are soooo so wrong about sweet. And Fox's logic is bad.

Yes, he is correct that by not getting direct wagons on potential deep threats, we leave them until later.

But killing a scum player now gives us information on their interactions, confirmation on their votes, and ability to read their posts and posts about them (or actively ignoring them) with an idea.

##vote sweet

Would not consider:

rdr
Vecna
Fox
Bona

Would consider:

Hamilton
kak
worcej

would ##end sweet. I think this one's easy.

ok. this post. multiple things are happening here. the fact that it's posted 8 minutes after the flip indicates to me that he typed it out post-flip. i believe that this entire poe was constructed post-flip, therefore - unless it was thought up overnight and bunny simply avoided mentioning it for all that time. therefore it was created with the knowledge of the flipped pr (as acknowledged by the opening lines), and can therefore not be regarded as very useful for learning about the game state just by reading it. why not at eon?

also, the thread of bunny pushing kills early and hard clearly shows up here again - the dropped hammer minutes into the day on the player who he has so far been publicly convinced, deep down in his soul if you can take him at his word, and without reservation if you examine his statements.

SO Bunny...I get that you're celebrating with family right now, but...

I feel you've come into this game with a bit of a nihilistic streak.

You've voted to end on both days.

What exactly has triggered you to make such a move?

Have you explained previously why sweet deserves to be eliminated?

Not gonna build a solid case with line items.

His tone is wrong.

His comments are off.

The comments I expect town!sweet to make don't come.

Every error he makes is unlike my memory of him.

So....am I tunnelling? Sure am. Does flipping sweet also provide a bunch of intel when he's scum? Sure does!

As for "nihilism"? No...

This game was dead. I'm just changing the tempo.

ok. first thing remotely presented as a case on sweet. what's actually presented?

#1 - tone. no explanation so nothing to say except blah
#2 - comments. again, what can you say?
#3 - unexpected comments. why is this scummy for sweet? why does not posting what bunny thinks you should indicate someone is scum? this is nonsensical
#4 - no examples have been shown or can be found. the one example that could remotely be relevant (third person writing) was disproved, by the man himself, bunnygo! (cited above)

what a case. what reasoning. what a profound lack of substance and of anything resembling a real case.

shit...I think sweet townslipped.

##unvote

then this. no one has been able to spot the actual supposed townslip and bunny has actually retracted the idea that there was a townslip. seems bizarre to me (caveat that i suck at finding townslips)

bunny has a rebuttal post to what i said in response to his not-a-case (basically same as here but less extended) but it's uninteresting so i'm not putting it here

Just made plans to go to the beach later...so I'll not be around much this afternoon.

I do agree that town!worcej usually makes more sense to me. ##vote worcej.

##end

this is really bizarre. the day that sweet is a potential wagon, bunny leaves for worcej. and hammers. what's the deal? i could say more but it's late and i'm tired

Why must someone make a reaction post to a death? Is this some sort of expectation? What could motivate you to point such a thing out? Did you have a motive to attempting to make Bunny look bad?

Is this on the same level as Kak mom-ming you D1 for appearing online but not posting? Or is it something more? Perhaps.

no one has to have a reaction post, but presumably they have something to say, whether it be reaction post or something moving the game onwards.

not sure what your second sentence means

what could motivate me to point it out? i thought it was non-obvious why it was happening and i wanted to know why.

like i said early, it only makes sense for scum in a few very limited cases, so i can't imagine that anyone would draw the conclusion that bongo is scum from that.

i don't understand

Sweet is saying you’re scum for saying something.

Sweet is also being a *******.

I’m tempted to vote sweet no matter what tomorrow.

back to voting sweet. this is before saying that sweet didn't actually townslip, so under his declared worldview at this time, this is an untenable position to hold (sweet townslipped uncontrovertibly, and that he should be voted no matter what)

I, Bunny, of sound mind and body leave my last testament.

Kaka is town. Do not vote him ever.

Bona is town. Do not vote him.

rdr is sus as anything. Vote him.

Vecna and Fox have at least one wolf among them. Find the wolf(s) there.

Sweet has since reneged on his "townslip"--it turns out it wasn't one. Vote him at will.

I have no idea about Hamilton Brian.

under this EoN2 readslist, bunny should be operating with the assumption of a vecna/sweet/(rdr or hb) world. i'm not caught up but he hasn't been pushing that from where i was. what did this readslist actually mean, then, if he's not following what he said his own reads were?


Chapter 2

after this is lylo material, which is impossible to read conclusively, especially on the same day, so i won't try

Conclusion
bongo is scum because he keeps trying to push daykills through early in a setup where kills are sparse, and he also refused to make sweet viable on the only prior day where he could have done so. i also believe his sod2 poe was constructed around knowing that there was a dead watcher, which certainly changed the math for scum a ton.

[Bonatogether]

inb4 someone accuses me of frankenposting

[Bonatogether]

##vote bunnygo

[Bonatogether]

im gonna go to sleep

cya nerds

[sweetandcool]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

[Bonatogether]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

i disagree

bunny normally does not push this hard over so weak a read. i have experience being on the receiving end of many a bunny push and case (like almost every game) that were stronger than this, and it just does not feel the same to me

[sweetandcool]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

i disagree

bunny normally does not push this hard over so weak a read. i have experience being on the receiving end of many a bunny push and case (like almost every game) that were stronger than this, and it just does not feel the same to me

(going back to look at M80)

[sweetandcool]

First time I've gone back to a game for reference. Didn't exactly move me in either direction. There are some similarities, with waffling involved, but scum Bunny put a lot more effort into his crusades that he is this game.

I'm just not sure Bona, sorry.

[BunnyGo]

##vote bunnygo

I think your case may build you town points, and I can't disagree with a lot of it, other than some conclusions you make. I don't think any of this is scum indicative, it's just Bunny pushing me, and I don't think my play HAS been quite as expected.

I don't know, before your wallpost Bunny has slipped a little bit in standing, but I still think they are town.

But to me you're pointing out normal things that Bunny does that I normally view as scummy, but I've had to push past them a bit because I've realized that Bunny just frequently scummy to me due to their style.

i disagree

bunny normally does not push this hard over so weak a read. i have experience being on the receiving end of many a bunny push and case (like almost every game) that were stronger than this, and it just does not feel the same to me

Make up your mind dude, do I tunnel hard or not?

[BunnyGo]

Btw, I cannot recall bona EVER making a case like that. I’m flattered. I’m pretty sure I have you right this game, bona. Wtf can you not get onboard too? It is true I think we’re both better scum players than town players…maybe that’s why we can’t sync?

[BunnyGo]

##vote hamil, mark hamil.