M81: A Night To Remember [GAME THREAD]

[Chaqa]

There is something I'd like to point out that's more than VCA: I was actively pushing for Damo's wagon. Yes I didn't technically vote for it when it was a live wagon, but in the thread tons of people were saying how much they scumread him. I hopped off b/c nobody had voted him, but then after seeing everyone talk about it, I was able to get them back on.
So while my vote wasn't when it was a live wagon, technically, I made it live from the start.

No, you really weren't. You limped onto the wagon saying his D1 was bad. You then mentioned him by name less than a third of your posts, and not one of those were really any explanation of why people should vote him. You even bailed on him midday for a short time for his dance partner.

Prior to D2, you mentioned the man once. It's also sus you are trying to make it like you are the key that unlocked the entire case.

I am beind Ezio veing a perfectly viable wagon.

I don't accept this at all. I voted him like 30 minutes into the phase. I had been discussing it with Vecna in our mafia chat where I have such quotes as
"I'm 100% on Damo"
"ya I don't like [Damo's] votes today" which Vecna agreed with.

Furthermore, I am the reason the wagon came back. Yes, I hopped off the wagon for like 1 hour after being on him all day when everyone else. I still paying attention to the chat, and the *only* reason Damo came back as a wagon was because I voted him again.

Yea I wasn't completely tunneled on Damo at that time the way that I'm tunneled on Chaqa now.
Notably, you can see me defending my townreads. I was townreading Jamiet pretty hard at the time and argued against his wagon which people were trying to get on.

Compare my D2 to Chaqa's.

Chaqa was hard townreading ghug practically the entire day. This was his post with 1 minute left.
"Voting ghug our classic misplay smh"
Early D2:
"I'd prefer to vote Ezio, Aaro, or damo today."
With 2 hours left in D2:
"I kinda want to vote Damo to test Aaro's theory now;"

And yet, he ends the day on Aaro. This is *not* protecting his townreads, which is how he *says* he plays when he's town.

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... rt=d2&g=81

Make your own minds up, I guess.

Also, god forbid I coast a little after catching D1 scum, gosh.

Also like... I literally never townread aaro as far as I remember. What are you even talking about

[Chaqa]

Gee

the thing is, I have alot of opinions about damo. and most of them are really not very polite. He is an impossible person to have a conversation with, but I do want to understand him. I dont want to always have to dislike things he does. He has great games sometimes but he also gets himself deep into trouble with just poorly explaining his perspectives. he maybe doesnt get mad enough to seem town. Im not sure what it is. usually if he annoys me it means hes town. and hes annoyed me this game on one occasion.

man I really gotta think here

Damo and Rivera exist in a permanent state of unreadable to me.

I wonder

ghug and RHK
jamie and S&c
brain and rdr
Worcej and Chaqa
Vecna and Ezio
damo and aaro

That's where I'm at.

Why I would vote Aaro over damo

[Chaqa]

Also the main reason is I literally was in a grocery store at EoD2 but go off fam.

I need to stop going to wegmans at end of day

[Chaqa]

Anyway this entire thing is really dumb I literally am responsible for killing Hamilton Day 1 but you do you Ezio

[Ezio]

I don't play the game by scum hunting. I play the game by keeping my townreads alive and killing everyone else.

My point is different. You have stated when you play town this is your stated gameplan "keep my townreads alive and kill everyone else".

You can't deny that you were townreading Ghug D2. You said as much consistently.

Then, when push came to shove, you did *NOT* protect your townread which you *certainly* would have done if you were town. You made the post 1 minute out shitting on the wagon, but not actually voting the counterwagon, who was on someone you were *not* townreading.

That is *not* your town play, in your own words.

[DemonRHK]

So I have frought up Chaqa and rdr having similar voting records and being nearly identical on paper.

So let me ask this then Ezio, why tunnel Chaqa and mention rdr exactly twice in like 8 phases?

[DemonRHK]

Sorry if the questioning seems circular, I'm trying to get a feel for the mindset here.

[Chaqa]

I don't play the game by scum hunting. I play the game by keeping my townreads alive and killing everyone else.

My point is different. You have stated when you play town this is your stated gameplan "keep my townreads alive and kill everyone else".

You can't deny that you were townreading Ghug D2. You said as much consistently.

Then, when push came to shove, you did *NOT* protect your townread which you *certainly* would have done if you were town. You made the post 1 minute out shitting on the wagon, but not actually voting the counterwagon, who was on someone you were *not* townreading.

That is *not* your town play, in your own words.

Jesus christ forgive me for not making the perfectly optimal play on my phone that would have saved ghug from dying while I was grocery shopping

even though he didnt die

but go off fam

[Ezio]

So I have frought up Chaqa and rdr having similar voting records and being nearly identical on paper.

So let me ask this then Ezio, why tunnel Chaqa and mention rdr exactly twice in like 8 phases?

I have said a few times that RDR is my preferred choice after Chaqa, but I feel much less strongly about it.

Their voting is similar for sure. Parking an early vote on HB d1, and then being on the wrong Wagon d2.

Their words are different and their gameplay has been different though. There's more to Mafia than *just* the votes. Seeing reads develop, seeing if people act on those reads etc.

Chaqa has explicitly said his town gameplay is to protect his townreads. RDR has not said that. As a result, I feel very differently about their games.

The *only* townie thing about Chaqa is that he got HB on D1. All of the rest of his actions from D2 onward have looked to make more sense if he's scum than if he's town.

[DemonRHK]

But that's the rub. rdr has very little else to go on. I feel, as I have said, that Chaqa is a wagon because is one of the few with content of any kind.

[Ezio]

So I have frought up Chaqa and rdr having similar voting records and being nearly identical on paper.

So let me ask this then Ezio, why tunnel Chaqa and mention rdr exactly twice in like 8 phases?

Just to reiterate: most of my arguments saying Chaqa is scum are *not* just based on wagon analytics and vote tracking based on relationships between the different scum and the wagons at this point.

My arguments are that his votes don't match his words. So either he's been straight lying in the thread about how he plays or what he really thinks (why?) or, he's been scum and doing his best to *fake* scumhunting and townreading but he's slipped up a few times.
Rdr doesn't have this problem to the same extent.

[Ezio]

But that's the rub. rdr has very little else to go on. I feel, as I have said, that Chaqa is a wagon because is one of the few with content of any kind.

Do *I* have this problem? Are there inconsistencies in my gameplay (votes) vs my reads?

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m just kinda in disbelief that throughout like 48 hours of time or more the only thought ezio has is that it’s me.

Like you were telling me to make a case but yet you don’t have any other thoughts despite being lurking in the thread all the time

That is not true, Chaqa.

Ezio has pushed you, true. But he has also made a number of statements about why he feels he should be regarded as town. He has defended himself in addition to pressing his read of you.

Why are you presenting things as if he has not done that?

Well, him arguing I'm scum is inherently him arguing I'm town. It didn't seem relevant since it's implicit.

I assume you mean "is inherently him arguing he is town", yes?

[Ezio]

But that's the rub. rdr has very little else to go on. I feel, as I have said, that Chaqa is a wagon because is one of the few with content of any kind.

Also, yea RDR is closer to a null read than Chaqa is. If Chaqa flips town, RDR is my best bet at the moment for the remaining scum.

This is why last phase I said I wanted to flip Chaqa, RDR, and Worcej as my final 3 flips.

[Jamiet99uk]

In any case, no, Chaqa. That's not a fair picture. Ezio is not "implying" he is town by pushing you as scum. He is making separate posts in their own right about that subject.

Your posts therefore present a very misleading account of Ezio's activity.

That is not the way to persuade me that he is scum and you are town.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote Chaqa

[Chaqa]

That is not true, Chaqa.

Ezio has pushed you, true. But he has also made a number of statements about why he feels he should be regarded as town. He has defended himself in addition to pressing his read of you.

Why are you presenting things as if he has not done that?

Well, him arguing I'm scum is inherently him arguing I'm town. It didn't seem relevant since it's implicit.

I assume you mean "is inherently him arguing he is town", yes?

Probably

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't accept this at all. I voted him like 30 minutes into the phase. I had been discussing it with Vecna in our mafia chat where I have such quotes as
"I'm 100% on Damo"

Wait a moment.

Ezio has access to Mafia chat?

[Jamiet99uk]

Well, him arguing I'm scum is inherently him arguing I'm town. It didn't seem relevant since it's implicit.

I assume you mean "is inherently him arguing he is town", yes?

Probably

No not probably.

Take a moment to make yourself clear.

[Chaqa]

This is exhausting Jamie

You know well I smoke so much and am so ADHD I don’t even remember what I did five minutes ago let alone the exact content and thoughts behind every post

Like I don’t want to be dramatic but I’m tired of shadow boxing phantom bullshit