M81: A Night To Remember [GAME THREAD]

[sweetandcool]

So I'm looking at the timeline and Ezio's 2nd post is agreeing with your case on RHK and expressing approval about your suspicion of sweetandcool.

You reply that you haven't made the case yet, but looking through your posts you had been railing against RHK, sweetandcool, and Aaro and nobody else (you mention Jamiet, Vecna, and Ezio as lurkers but don't pursue a case).

And you wrote one or two pretty fleshed out logical cases against RHK an sweetandcool. So while you might not have presented what you would consider a case, I think Ezio agreeing with your case isn't strange in-itself (you reply to their approval by pointing out it was strange that they were agreeing with a case you hadn't made).

13 minutes and 3 posts later, HB makes a post also supporting you and the anti RHK and sweetandcool stance.

How does this not look like either:
1. A coordinated push between Ezio and HB
2. HB opportunistically taking advantage of a bad read from Brainbomb and Ezio

In either case, it supports the idea that your reads were bad at that point in the game.

Oops, I did the thing I hate, not quoting nor naming the person I am talking to. This was all supposed to be @brainbomb, but I would be thrilled if anyone else engages with this line of reasoning.

[aarodactyl]

rivera2005 is saying he thinks ghug tried to save HB in our chat

and he credited my case about HBs bad readslist as the reason why he voted HB and said I deserve some credit.

I think you’re town but I’d appreciate if Rivera could confirm that he said that.

[brainbomb]

Town
worcej
kakarrotto
damo666
ghug
chaqa
hamiltonbrian
jamiet99uk

Scumpool
ezio
vecna
aarodactyl
demonrhk
sweetandcool

Exceutive decision*

Town
worcej
kakarrotto
ghug
chaqa
ridrivera
damo666
ezio*
Jamiet99uk
aarodactyl

Scumleans
HamiltonBrian*
Sweetandcool
demonrhk
vecna

*ezio and HamiltonBrian were swapped due to a eureka moment of noticing Hamilton forcing people up his reads who have not earned such positions. While ezio is actively questioning people and attempting to get invested.

There's the brain I was counting on. Seems like it's on now.

Eureka moments are like lightning in the bottle. Just what does one do with that lightning.

Between the wish and the thing the world lies waiting.

Brain: agitating, erratic, but then some subtle notes contained within like the idea of aaro and S&C NOT being scum together. I think a decent observation about how mafia would sit back while the rest of us deliberate the pros cons of mech. Essentially throwing nets out to see what's caught. Townlean.

he likes me saying aaro and s&c cant be scum together.

[ghug]

Yeah no one ever gave an actual reason to scumread me. It was pretty wild how no on else seems to care about that.

You didn't seem townie.

[ghug]

Has anyone done a deep dive into Hamilton's scum games to see if he votes teammates on Day 1? I'm wondering if we can clear Vecna.

I feel like we can be pretty close to clearing Vecna just on the way that vote went down. Assuming he'd never vote a teammate at all is a little much.

[brainbomb]

it supports the idea that your reads were bad at that point in the game.

I did in fact have hamilton in my scumreads at this time. So my reads were not bad at this point of the game. my reads are probably terrible at 79% of a phase, but in this instance, I found scummy hamilton doing a scummy thing. I didnt follow through on my hunches. That is certainly my fatal mistake. One I will make on average around 52 times a game

[sweetandcool]

it supports the idea that your reads were bad at that point in the game.

I did in fact have hamilton in my scumreads at this time. So my reads were not bad at this point of the game. my reads are probably terrible at 79% of a phase, but in this instance, I found scummy hamilton doing a scummy thing. I didnt follow through on my hunches. That is certainly my fatal mistake. One I will make on average around 52 times a game

At that point in the game you hadn't publicly said anything that even hinted that you found Ham suspicious.

What about the rest of what I am saying?

[ghug]

I am not Brainbomb's dance partner.

I didn't say you were.

I think Jamie is saying that he’d like to find pairs of people that I doesn’t think can be scum together solely based on interactions during D1. Then he wants to add that to list of pairs we already have and then try to massage out some clears.

Jamie's the one misunderstanding here.

[ghug]

I'm not super sure on this outside the town core, but this is roughly where I am at.

Town Core
DemonRHK
Kakarroto
Vecna
worcej

Lean Town
aarodactyl
damo666
rdrivera2005

PoE
brainbomb/Jamiet99uk*
Ezio
ghug
sweetandcool

*I either brain is scum OR Jamie is scum, not both, maybe neither.

That's a lot of HB voters in your PoE. Aren't you usually a fan of mistakenly clearing bussers?

[ghug]

I'm not super sure on this outside the town core, but this is roughly where I am at.

Town Core
DemonRHK
Kakarroto
Vecna
worcej

Lean Town
aarodactyl
damo666
rdrivera2005

PoE
brainbomb/Jamiet99uk*
Ezio
ghug
sweetandcool

*I either brain is scum OR Jamie is scum, not both, maybe neither.

Also why is RHK in your towncore?

[aarodactyl]

Jamie's the one misunderstanding here.

That was the danger in me posting before 7am. We’ve already cleared up that misunderstanding though.

[brainbomb]

it supports the idea that your reads were bad at that point in the game.

I did in fact have hamilton in my scumreads at this time. So my reads were not bad at this point of the game. my reads are probably terrible at 79% of a phase, but in this instance, I found scummy hamilton doing a scummy thing. I didnt follow through on my hunches. That is certainly my fatal mistake. One I will make on average around 52 times a game

At that point in the game you hadn't publicly said anything that even hinted that you found Ham suspicious.

What about the rest of what I am saying?

The facts do not support anything you are saying at all. There was never any visible coordinated push on DemonRHK by hamilton and ezio. show me where either of them ever vote or push demon RHK in any way at all.

Was there a coordinated effort by them both to scumread "YOU". Yes.
I have already credited you with being pushed by Hamilton in his reads, and by ezio's shading and bizarre push at you which was motivated to drive up a wagon on you.

But there is no evidence to suggest ezio pushed demonRHK at all. and there is no evidence to suggest HB did either. if anything ezio ignored demonrhk side of the case, and hamilton left RHK out of his reads, and was openly collaborating with RHK in the game thread.

So no. I refute your statements, fully, categorically, biblically. whatever other words there are to say a flat NO.

[ghug]

So I feel pretty good about saying the following are town currently:
Kak
Vecna
Rd
Sweet
brain
Worcej

That leaves a PoE of:
RHK
damo
Ezio
aaro
Chaqa
Jamie

These lists are roughly ordered internally.

[brainbomb]

As for claiming I wasnt scumreading Hamilton, I showed where I started scumreading him and why. I dont have exact page numbers on when I first put hamilton as town, and when I made my case on you being mafia with RHK, but I recall that within a page of the case, or within less than 3 pages of the case hamilton kept listing me as top town, then tried to make a read where he put jamie, damo, ezio, vecna all as SAMSIES for Catching up Nicely. And I moved him off my townlist immediately.

[ghug]

Brain, can you go down a rabbit hole on HB's final vote? I feel like that's the key to solving the game.

[ghug]

aaro has stated one read this entire night.

[sweetandcool]

I did in fact have hamilton in my scumreads at this time. So my reads were not bad at this point of the game. my reads are probably terrible at 79% of a phase, but in this instance, I found scummy hamilton doing a scummy thing. I didnt follow through on my hunches. That is certainly my fatal mistake. One I will make on average around 52 times a game

At that point in the game you hadn't publicly said anything that even hinted that you found Ham suspicious.

What about the rest of what I am saying?

The facts do not support anything you are saying at all. There was never any visible coordinated push on DemonRHK by hamilton and ezio. show me where either of them ever vote or push demon RHK in any way at all.

Was there a coordinated effort by them both to scumread "YOU". Yes.
I have already credited you with being pushed by Hamilton in his reads, and by ezio's shading and bizarre push at you which was motivated to drive up a wagon on you.

But there is no evidence to suggest ezio pushed demonRHK at all. and there is no evidence to suggest HB did either. if anything ezio ignored demonrhk side of the case, and hamilton left RHK out of his reads, and was openly collaborating with RHK in the game thread.

So no. I refute your statements, fully, categorically, biblically. whatever other words there are to say a flat NO.

Wow, I'm shocked by this response.

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to write it up a bit more rigorously and clearly. I beg you to at least consider it one last time when I post my case, even if it is still an emphatic "no".

[brainbomb]

So the rabbit hole just makes vecna look like shit. And I really think a ton of why hamilton is scum is why vecna is not.

But I noticed that vecna chose to exclusively do his catchups almost mocking my scumreads throughout the phase.

He focused on all these inconsequential posts by RHK when RHK was nowhere near a consideration. And kept using meta tells to claim RHK was so far from his scum game ect ect.

His reaction to HBs readslist was real bad.

i do like this post from HB.

takes have some meat to em.

man. I love SnC doubling down on scumreading the people who disagree with his secret mechanical information. It unironically makes me think he's just a disgruntled town lol.
I just can't imagine scum would double and triple down like that.

yeah, hes the most obvtown guy in the entire game

given my scumread on ezio these two cant be w/w based on dance chats, but if there were not dance chats id wanna hang both for this alone. Im leaning more to vecna being town in this but only because im so stronly scumreading ezio.

Idk I'm gonna ##vote Vecna. I kinda feel like everyone who's online right now is town.

we should kill damo or kakkarot imo

Vecna wanting to kill damo or kak is interesting. Does he say this because RHK (the guy he has been hard townreading relentlessly, is actually scum with vecna?) and that kak, (is chat partner with HB)

I dont know if scum vecna would play it that he would just want wagons on his scum buddies dance partners who happen to be villa. I guess that seems kinda murky.

but then referring back to this:

I don't think the level of messaging on private chat is alignment indicative, specially at N0. In fact, a townie is more likely to forget to enter discord then a scum.

You think so? I'd say everyone would be checking in as soon as the discord link were received. If anything, I think mafia would be more apprehensive to get in there right away. The more time spent dialoguing means more time spilling something to hang them on later? I don't know. That could just be me.

as opposed to this.

very generic thoughts. stuck in plattitudes in every post so far.

one of my stronger suspicions

I dont know if vecna started scumreading Hamilton, and things got carried away so then he needed to make hamiltons readlist seem like it was actually good??

I dont think vecna is scum because this doesnt seem very careful or well planned out.

[Chaqa]

rivera2005 is saying he thinks ghug tried to save HB in our chat

and he credited my case about HBs bad readslist as the reason why he voted HB and said I deserve some credit.

I think a reasonable amount of us put HB near the tops of our list because of your argument. So yes, I think you deserve plenty of credit.

Unfortunately, you didn't stick with the vote, so there is some town paranoia that it was a bus gone wrong.

This is basically where I'm at.

[Chaqa]

I'm not super sure on this outside the town core, but this is roughly where I am at.

Town Core
DemonRHK
Kakarroto
Vecna
worcej

Lean Town
aarodactyl
damo666
rdrivera2005

PoE
brainbomb/Jamiet99uk*
Ezio
ghug
sweetandcool

*I either brain is scum OR Jamie is scum, not both, maybe neither.

That's a lot of HB voters in your PoE. Aren't you usually a fan of mistakenly clearing bussers?

You'll think this is silly, but the only people I know voted HB are me and rivera.

I haven't really looked at the vote counts yet. Was saving it for tomorrow.