M80 Game Thread

[Xcution]

the one hour difference isn't scummy, it does take forever to make wallposts.

idk

x feels cheap but this guy also kinda rings hollow to me

maybe i'll iso dousing

What I'm saying about the one hour time difference is that there is a very high chance that X saw my post on him an hour ago (or even more since he could've just read my post and not announced himself) went "oh shit" and decided to coincidentally have a theory linking me, Fox, and Sweet together

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

[Xcution]

I went through every single thread, and all it did was clarify that your play is the most like Mafia.

Comments like this are just so weird. Are you reading what people are writing? It's the only non-Mafia reason I can think of for you to say so many things that make no sense.

reaching the 'are you even reading' stage of the argument is usually a good time to skip to the 'i'm going to ignore you and just leave a vote on you until you die' stage

Nah.

But I can't help feeling that they are not reading my posts and others.

I promise I'm not doing it on purpose. I never take notes on games and I tend to try and read through the game during spare moments I have. I've never purposely tried to misrepresent someone's posts or thoughts.

[sweetandcool]

I have not read the thread since I posted last. After taking a long break from mafia, and then getting run out on D1 last game and now this, I'm having trouble mustering the motivation.

My best guess at scum is:

Worcej
Eden
Bona
Kak

I think that after Worcej got to the scum chat last night, they realized that he wasn't going to be able to maintain the PR facade for very long and decided to go out with a bang and hopefully out a PR on the way. I had initially thought that Worcej had the suicide bomb (what a way to go), but now I see that after I flip town there's going to be a lot of "oh, it must have been the driver! I'm sowwy" So eventually the real Navigator may need to claim.

I suppose there is some chance that it was the driver. If worcej is actually a PR, then my next guesses are ghug, haze, and sweet.

I think D1 was TvT, and I think when that happens, scum tend to distribute themselves rather than clumping on the top wagons. I'm sure other people have their own ideas about how to do VCA/etc, but I'm trying to leave helpful advice.

I also recommend occasionally flipping all your reads: scum are motivated to look as towny as possible, and it's naive to think that some of them haven't fooled you.

I am unlikely to spend my day keeping up with the thread, but if you want to question me, I will try to come back in the afternoon and will search the bot for "Call Foxcastle" if you want to tag questions with that.

discovered this post

i think his scumlist is entirely town

I agree, though I'm not completely sold on Bonatogether.

[Dousing]

Also had RDR done anything other than scumread me and Haze?

Also does he seem a lot more angry/emotional than last game?

yes

no

ratio

I'm having a stroke trying to understand this

[Dousing]

the one hour difference isn't scummy, it does take forever to make wallposts.

idk

x feels cheap but this guy also kinda rings hollow to me

maybe i'll iso dousing

What I'm saying about the one hour time difference is that there is a very high chance that X saw my post on him an hour ago (or even more since he could've just read my post and not announced himself) went "oh shit" and decided to coincidentally have a theory linking me, Fox, and Sweet together

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

[sweetandcool]

Okay, first thing I want to say that I think it's bad faith to hold me to the same standards that you hold yourself; just because you play a certain way as an alignment does not mean someone else has to or does. Second, I'm not sure why bringing in my experience here has anything to do with how you play? The standards you are applying to my slot do not feel like it's good faith.

So you start off by parroting three 'main points' that Sweet has brought up against me, as well as two 'points in my favor' that Sweet gave me. You make no opinion of your own on these and fail to say how this might solve my alignment either way. However, you then go on to say that these posts interested you for seemingly unrelated reasons. 1. You say you trust Sweet more than me because they are 'acting' reliably. Are they acting reliably or are they actually reliable? What are the reasons for this? 2. I'm not sure how you saying you can't remember what I've done beyond Sweet is relevant to you bringing up the Sweet's main points and points in my favor posts. This also seems fake because right after you make the comment about not remembering anything else I've done, you drop a comment saying I threw a ton of shade Jamie's way. So you obviously did remember SOMETHING else I did. So which is it? Not really sure how these two points made you interested in what Sweet was saying. This feels more like a way to attach yourself to Sweet's argument against me than something you actually believe.

I think saying I am 'hating on new accounts' is pretty disingenuous when this is literally my first game here; how can I be hating on anything? And I like how you are calling me out for open-ended questions when Sweet was calling me out for not asking any questions at all. So which is it that I am doing this game?

You calling me out for not voting EOD1 is complete shade. I was not around for EOD1 and wasn't going to leave my vote just anywhere. I'm not quite sure how I've deserved such sarcasm and mocking accusations from your slot when we haven't even interacted this game.

You summarized my interaction with Jamie but just left it at simple shading of me. Jamie didn't really want to interact with me despite me trying to poke at him. It's funny that you are taking such an issue with that as well. I wonder if there is a specific reason for this?

You mentioning my N1/D2 contributions is pretty moot because I told the thread I wasn't going to be around and able to participate until the weekend. My interactions with Bunny and Haze are because they chose to interact with me and carry on a conversation, not the other way around. I can't really remember my interactions with Bunny N1, but with Haze, they said it was better off for me to interact live if I wasn't caught up, and then we had a few back and forths about where our heads were at.

It's funny you take issue with me after I casually said you were defending Fox right before he got exposed in the thread. My D2 was lackluster, of course it was, because I wasn't able to be in the thread or read. You've also acted like me voting, me responding to something someone asked me to respond to, and me saying you were defending Fox, is somehow a gotcha moment for my D2 play. You haven't really pushed anything other than my interaction with Sweet and me being inactive. There are no original ideas here other than you piggy backing on Sweet's posts against me as well as shading my inactivity after I said I wouldn't be around. I can fully admit I haven't been as active as I would have liked, but that happens sometimes. I can't completely disagree with the fact that I'm a 'dark horse candidate' for wolf, but I also know that I haven't really been around this game and you haven't really made any new or hard points against me. You've simply said I haven't contributed to town and have left it at that. You never dissected any of my posts for ulterior motive, you haven't dismantled my pushes as being incorrect, nor have you given reasons as to why I'm wolf other than I haven't progress the game or helped town much (both things I can admit to). I don't think this is a push done in good faith, and for this to come after I call you out for defending Fox, as well as what I saw with Fox's interactions with you after I isoed him, makes me believe that you are just playing wolf here.

In the beginning of the post I use Sweetandcool's post just to explain *why* I decided to look into you. The fact that the post came from sweet is less important than the fact that the argument against you is a strong one in my opinion.

AS I said before:

(It doesn't *really* matter where the argument came from because the argument itself is very strong imo.)

I talk about how the only memory I have about you is when you beefed with Sweet because it's true. Yes, I bring up your beef with Jamie right after which I admit was confusing.

HOWEVER, you have to keep in mind I was writing this post *after* reading through your history. And it was only *after* I read through your posts that I even remembered that you beefed with Jamie on D1.


Anyway I want to discuss the Haze/Bunny connection:

All I'm saying is that you not just exclusively talked to them in N1 but you also *actively* sought them out.

You said this:

Haze, I trust you with my life, so solve the game for me.

(Which is either a joke I don't understand or you townreading Haze without any reason to)

and this

@Bunnygo I haven't interacted with you yet this game. How come you stayed away so long? Do you feel bad for outing worcej? Do you believe his claim? Who are the wolves?

*Look Sweet I'm asking questions!

In no other case do I really see you trying to connect/build bridges with anyone

Yes, I know you used Sweet to look into me, but you just used his case and restated it without adding anything to it. You can see why maybe I think that's lazy, yeah?

I mean, the Haze quote you pulled was a joke, and was also in the middle of our interaction when Haze told me to just play live. It wasn't like I was just sitting alone in the thread and sought out Haze and made that comment. And then with Bunny, when I was trying to play live at that point in the game, Bunny was active and someone I hadn't talked to once in this game. So what you say is working with Haze and Bunny is really just me having a quick interaction with them while we were all online. In your case against me, you tried and used my experience against me to shade me and say that I should be doing better. Isn't that a hypocritical idea to hold while also thinking that as wolf, I'm just going to come lurking out of hiding to chit chat with what you're calling my mates? I know I've missed some pages, but do I really feel so clueless and lost that I just pop in during night to chat publicly with my mates in an effort that seems pretty unproductive and unmoving?

Not to mention that you KNOW Haze and just played a game with them. Dousing's point about a connection between you and Haze is pretty silly when you know and have a previously established rapport with them.

What you've just said are good points as well.

[sweetandcool]

reaching the 'are you even reading' stage of the argument is usually a good time to skip to the 'i'm going to ignore you and just leave a vote on you until you die' stage

Nah.

But I can't help feeling that they are not reading my posts and others.

I promise I'm not doing it on purpose. I never take notes on games and I tend to try and read through the game during spare moments I have. I've never purposely tried to misrepresent someone's posts or thoughts.

I'll try to be more open-minded.

[Dousing]

What I'm saying about the one hour time difference is that there is a very high chance that X saw my post on him an hour ago (or even more since he could've just read my post and not announced himself) went "oh shit" and decided to coincidentally have a theory linking me, Fox, and Sweet together

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

Also I'm not saying you didn't want to pursue this angle previously.

However I do this it's really unlikely that you'll have a wallpost implicating me in a maf line with Fox and Sweet just when I wrote one on you.

Ergo, you had the idea previously and me looking into you has made you go "oh shit I need to go on the offensive" but you're painting it as a coincidence

[Xcution]

What I'm saying about the one hour time difference is that there is a very high chance that X saw my post on him an hour ago (or even more since he could've just read my post and not announced himself) went "oh shit" and decided to coincidentally have a theory linking me, Fox, and Sweet together

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

But flipping me would be bad because I'm town!

If you're convinced I'm wolf here, why haven't you linked me to my mates yet? This was an issue I had with Sweet as well. He just came back to me and dropped a vote and didn't really do much with it. At this point in the game, I do think I'm a bit of a LHF because I haven't really been active and get my footing in this game. Just tunneling me doesn't seem super productive to town because if you flip me, and finally realize I'm town, what do you do then?

[BunnyGo]

ghug and eden can call it fake again

Did you post this before reading the flip? You did a reread on me...posted it...KNEW that night had ended, and are townslipping you don't know who died?

Or am I just taking a joke you're making too seriously.

[Dousing]

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

But flipping me would be bad because I'm town!

If you're convinced I'm wolf here, why haven't you linked me to my mates yet? This was an issue I had with Sweet as well. He just came back to me and dropped a vote and didn't really do much with it. At this point in the game, I do think I'm a bit of a LHF because I haven't really been active and get my footing in this game. Just tunneling me doesn't seem super productive to town because if you flip me, and finally realize I'm town, what do you do then?

Idk, I'm trying to think of scum lines and my brain hurts because every one I make requires a leap of faith (which is against my nature)

Too much Mafia is making my brain melt, gimme a sec while I mull over possibilities

[Dousing]

Also had RDR done anything other than scumread me and Haze?

Also does he seem a lot more angry/emotional than last game?

[Xcution]

Now you're just angle shooting. How do we prove this one way or another?

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

Also I'm not saying you didn't want to pursue this angle previously.

However I do this it's really unlikely that you'll have a wallpost implicating me in a maf line with Fox and Sweet just when I wrote one on you.

Ergo, you had the idea previously and me looking into you has made you go "oh shit I need to go on the offensive" but you're painting it as a coincidence

Okay, I suppose I can see where you are coming from here, but also, wouldn't my response to your case against me be more in line with the example you are trying to make? I mean, I did my Fox iso and came to my conclusions (which you didn't even respond to) and then I made my response to you. Do those to posts I made feel connected or separate? Where do you sense bias during my Fox iso other than me saying your suss? You had a post defending Fox right before he was outed and Fox also took issue with suspicion against you and also tried to start a counter wagon when your name was brought up. Do you deny these things?

[BunnyGo]

This iso system and site's features just not jive with me.

try the search option on the landing page. I'll often search for @Bun* to see if anyone asked me anything. Or if comparing two players I'll look for (e.g. kak* as the player and fox* as the word)

if you're not familiar * stands for any number of characters.

then you miss whenever i talk about bongo!

bunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbunbun

I did just notice that on catchup read.

Now you know why I ignore your questions.

[BunnyGo]

ok i caught up i can go home now

Were YOU on a date too?

[Dousing]

I mean... we could try flipping you if you're cool with that

Also I'm not saying you didn't want to pursue this angle previously.

However I do this it's really unlikely that you'll have a wallpost implicating me in a maf line with Fox and Sweet just when I wrote one on you.

Ergo, you had the idea previously and me looking into you has made you go "oh shit I need to go on the offensive" but you're painting it as a coincidence

Okay, I suppose I can see where you are coming from here, but also, wouldn't my response to your case against me be more in line with the example you are trying to make? I mean, I did my Fox iso and came to my conclusions (which you didn't even respond to) and then I made my response to you. Do those to posts I made feel connected or separate? Where do you sense bias during my Fox iso other than me saying your suss? You had a post defending Fox right before he was outed and Fox also took issue with suspicion against you and also tried to start a counter wagon when your name was brought up. Do you deny these things?

I see your point, all I'm saying is that the coincidence is highly unlikely. The post looked like theater which is why I didn't bother replying to it.


I don't recall the post where I defended Fox on.

I think you might be referring to the three bullets question proposed by Kak. Tbh, I didn't think too much on it.

I forgot that Eden wasn't cc'ed
And I admitted that I should've put fox on the list in the next post I sent.


I really don't buy the argument that I was defending Fox here. Also why would Fox stick his neck out for a newbie teammate when he could have benefited much more from bussing me.

If I was in Fox's shoes. I'd see me as a deadweight that'll probably accidentally out their teammates sometime later in the game.

The only reason, therefore, that Fox would have to defend me was if I was actually town. It could be really likely that Fox was secretly hoping I'd flip and (when I show up as town) he can gloat to the people in the anti-dousing wagon and gain a bit more cred.

K (unless smt happens) I'm gonna take a bit of a break since this mafia talk is making my brain melt.

[Dousing]

Xcution is taking the place of S&C from last game I just realized.

If X ever flips maf then I there's a good chance Ghug is maf too imo

[Bonatogether]

@kak are we best friends

i get the feeling these two just +1 whatever shit they see

I think you pointing it out has driven Dousing to start +1 most of your posts...

[Bonatogether]

I have not read the thread since I posted last. After taking a long break from mafia, and then getting run out on D1 last game and now this, I'm having trouble mustering the motivation.

My best guess at scum is:

Worcej
Eden
Bona
Kak

I think that after Worcej got to the scum chat last night, they realized that he wasn't going to be able to maintain the PR facade for very long and decided to go out with a bang and hopefully out a PR on the way. I had initially thought that Worcej had the suicide bomb (what a way to go), but now I see that after I flip town there's going to be a lot of "oh, it must have been the driver! I'm sowwy" So eventually the real Navigator may need to claim.

I suppose there is some chance that it was the driver. If worcej is actually a PR, then my next guesses are ghug, haze, and sweet.

I think D1 was TvT, and I think when that happens, scum tend to distribute themselves rather than clumping on the top wagons. I'm sure other people have their own ideas about how to do VCA/etc, but I'm trying to leave helpful advice.

I also recommend occasionally flipping all your reads: scum are motivated to look as towny as possible, and it's naive to think that some of them haven't fooled you.

I am unlikely to spend my day keeping up with the thread, but if you want to question me, I will try to come back in the afternoon and will search the bot for "Call Foxcastle" if you want to tag questions with that.

discovered this post

i think his scumlist is entirely town

I agree, though I'm not completely sold on Bonatogether.

i think i'm town

[Bonatogether]

Also had RDR done anything other than scumread me and Haze?

Also does he seem a lot more angry/emotional than last game?

yes

no

ratio

I'm having a stroke trying to understand this

you asked two questions

i gave two responses

then i ratioed you