M80 Game Thread

[Bonatogether]

actually thats not super fair to Dousing after his case on X

disagree that case felt lame

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maybe you prob the ppl i said Id shoot. lower chance x or bona prob. bona has kinda fallen off tbh.

Why has bona fallen off?

ask them not me. They just haven't posted as much or done much since early d1. I dont know why. they just haven't

eden was correct that i am low on the giveafuckometer

[Bonatogether]

normally, the minute/second before EoD is the time when people post their reads/thoughts/results they had in the night which they don't want to let mafia know AND if they fear they don't survive to the next day. Some mafia fake those posts too and some post even when they don't feel they are in grave danger, but just in case.

I think it did go down in recent games, it was much bigger in earlier games.

Just the advantage of an open chat at night

Yeah, normally I'd follow that rule except for two reasons:

1. On the weekend I am unreliably engaged and there is a strong chance I miss EoN.
2. I'm feeling confidently townread and I don't think there will ever be a misskill. Consequently, I think there is a strong chance I get NK.

(3) Unlike last game, I feel like I'm reasonably on track. I'm not crusading against town, so I'm not helpful to Mafia.

2 is dispute but i also haven't paid attention to you

3 is so true - no one ever thinks they're crusading against town

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post on X

heavy 'i need to make cases' energy

quote=ghug post_id=344139 time=1684605513 user_id=51]
Really? That gave me very strong "I'm mafia failing to get invested with the thread so I'm gonna do one big post to look involved" vibes.

It's moreso I'm just a prideful individual. At least for a person like me, such a face saving measure is NAI.
[/quote]
missed the ghug post that this is quoting and too lazy to find it - yes. that's what i meant

[Bonatogether]

Where I'm at

Town:
sweet
Rd
Kak
Bunny
Haze

Seems town but we're running out of options:
Damo
Jamie
Brain
X

POEest:
Bofa
Dousing

Conf scum:
Eden
worcej
ghug

How does X seem town and Bunny and Haze get in as locktown?

I'm lowest on the list so are you implying that you'd rather flip me than anyone else?

Why is Kak more townie than Jamie. I get the same vibe from both of them tbh.


Am I crazy? Bc nobody else has raised an eyebrow to this so far

X seemed fine early. I thought the argument with sweet was super townie. There's been less good recently, as you pointed out, but normally I'd ascribe that to weekend + boring and shortened day phase. As is, I'm short on scumreads, so he gets consideration.

Bunny I explained just following the list.

Haze's ghug paranoia tonight feels solid.

Kak's weird 4 AM posting felt like a townie desperate to solve.

Pretty much the only townie thing I've seen from Jamie is his blowup at me, and I'm kinda tired of townreading him for getting drunk and emotional, especially when he hasn't spent much time being sober and emotional. The big bunch of posts on Foxcastle felt like they came out of obligation and lacked conviction. He's also been doing a lot of misunderstanding things that seem very hard to misuderstand, which is a common scum Jamie tactic that comes from trying to mimic his tendency to misunderstand things that are a little bit confusing or ambiguous. He also didn't tell us how beautiful his date is like he usually does.

I'm lowest on the list, not you.

this hits the nail on the head wrt jamie

[Bonatogether]

Since I'm behind and a bit lost in this game, I thought I'd look through Fox's posts and see what stand out to me in terms of team equity.

On page thirteen, Fox starts his suss and votes off with Bunny. I don't know how to decipher Bunny's early play of just liking and not being around, but something about this feels a bit fake. Does Fox really feel this outraged about Bunny? Is it really deserving of a vote? I feel like this is Fox trying to take advantage of LHF early on and he made consecutive posts bringing attention to Bunny's slot. If they were mates, I'm not sure why you'd put your mate in the spotlight, give some lame reasoning to push them (possibly faking outrage) and then voting them. This seems like it could easily backfire. I think this is just a case of a fox hunting a bunny.

On page fifteen there was some interaction with Sweet. I don't really get the point of their interaction, and it's dropped fairly quickly. Well there isn't much there, the quick interaction, and then subsequent dropping of it, saying they were better off doing other things, could suggest that this was an attempt at some early distancing. Considering how I feel about Sweet's slot as well, this pings me a little more strongly.

Post 599 is kind of interesting to me because Fox brings up issues with Damo's town core (worcej, Brain, Eden). Would a mate really publicly all out another mate's town core and put them under scrutiny? I don't think there's any bus equity here, so Fox trying to slam Damo like this makes me lean on them not being mates. There's also continued interaction between the two of them over this and it makes me feel like it's not wolf theatre.

viewtopic.php?p=341051&sid=45aafd02b7f6 ... 0c#p341051

After this there is some interaction with Eden and Jamie that doesn't feel too pingy either way. I obviously don't know what Fox is capable of as wolf, but the conversations with these two slots feel pretty casual and easy. Is Fox able to do that with mates out in the open? I'm not sure. I'm probably leaning towards no.

Post 1017 is some reads from Fox. Kind of hard to decipher since he doesn't want to vote a town flip (Bozo) but he did want to vote another town flip (pyxxy). The thing that kind of stands out for me here is that Fox starts and ends this post both with town reads, on Sweet and Damo. I've already mentioned the earlier interaction with Sweet looking fake but Damo is a curious town read here as well, considering he called out his town core but then didn't really follow it up with much. I'm not sure why Fox would call both of these slots town.

viewtopic.php?p=341498&sid=1a464c2f2798 ... d9#p341498

Post 1152 also stands out for me a bit. Despite town reading Sweet, he hedges the argument between Sweet and I by saying out of all the early arguments, me versus Sweet seems to most likely to be a town versus wolf argument. Fox mentioned in his reads being fine with voting for me, but if he's saying that I'm the wolf in this interaction, he sure isn't doing much to push me. This feels like he could be hedging a bit on his read on Sweet, if they are mates here.

viewtopic.php?p=341636#p341636

Post 1461 and 1469 stick out to me. He drops his LHF vote against Bunny and starts to go after Bona, including saying his PR claim is fake. This feels like too aggressive of a move out of nowhere to be directed at a mate. This makes me lean Bona as town because of this.

viewtopic.php?p=341945&sid=508e27bfa7e6 ... 75#p341945

viewtopic.php?p=341953#p341953

Post 1565 is some more reads by Fox. Interesting that he wants to let Bona off the hook, makes me think Fox was just trying to use that slot as an easy place to drop a vote, which continues to make me lean Bona as not a mate. A lot of town reads for Fox as well. But at the end he mentions me and Sweet being town versus town, after saying we were the most likely argument to be town versus wolf, and doesn't really explain his thought process. I'm still getting bad vibes on how Fox has treated Sweet's slot this game.

viewtopic.php?p=342051&sid=e20c48f400b9 ... 4a#p342051

Page ninety Fox calls votes on Dousing foolish and then somehow pivots that idea into voting for Eden. I didn't really read the end of D1, but I hear Eden was a counter wagon. Interesting to see Fox push away from Dousing and then drop onto Eden. On page 94 he does vote Dousing, only to jump onto Bozo's wagon. This could be seen as some opportunistic play with Fox, avoiding going for Dousing, and voting for the two big wagons at EOD1 (not sure what VC looked like around this time).


After this, Fox's posts come when he's outed by worcej, so I'm not going to look over them or worry about what was said since Fox was already compromised. Going over Fox's iso, I'd say there's low team equity between him and Bunny, Eden, Jamie, and Bona. I think there's decent team equity between Fox, Sweet, and Dousing. I'd probably lean Damo to being lower team equity as well.

maybe i just don't get x

maybe this is just how he sounds

but he doesn't feel real

[Bonatogether]

Really? That gave me very strong "I'm mafia failing to get invested with the thread so I'm gonna do one big post to look involved" vibes.

It's moreso I'm just a prideful individual. At least for a person like me, such a face saving measure is NAI.

Oh, I see you dropped a case on me. I wish this site had mention features so I could be tagged when someone is talking to me. What made you drop this case? It's kind of interesting to me that after reading Fox's iso, I come away with some team equity between you two, as well as Sweet, and you and Sweet have now been to slots that have pushed my own.

this feels SO tepid

'hello! i see you made a case on me. i however made a case on you and another guy that aligns with my omgus. checkmate!'

[Bonatogether]

Oh, I see you dropped a case on me. I wish this site had mention features so I could be tagged when someone is talking to me. What made you drop this case?

I refuse to believe that this is an organic thought process.

It's kind of interesting to me that after reading Fox's iso, I come away with some team equity between you two, as well as Sweet, and you and Sweet have now been to slots that have pushed my own.

Obvious theater from X is obvious theater, Xcution *JUST SO HAPPENS* to have some interesting theory about me and Sweet right when I levy a case against him.

(Also note the one hour difference between when X makes his first post to the massive wallpost)

Define working with? I'd say I've been pretty lazy this game and have barely been working on ANYTHING.

See above (K well since you asked nicely I'll send it)

X's contribution's N1 were very minimal (that's alright). HOWEVER, 8/16 of all his posts during that phase were replies to/were about Haze with a Z. (and 12/16 of his posts involved either Bunny or Haze)

This is even more interesting when you consider the following about the posts that didn't involve Haze:

- The first two posts were random posts about the mechanics of the night phase,
- One post was a reply to Worcej about the mechanics of the night phase
- One post was an open ended question about the Bozo wagon


All the actual thinking done by X was in tandem with Haze or Bunny

the one hour difference isn't scummy, it does take forever to make wallposts.

idk

x feels cheap but this guy also kinda rings hollow to me

maybe i'll iso dousing

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SNIP

big snip

this post really boils down to gotchas, irl nai-ities, and 'well you don't have a case because you don't show i'm scummy'

i'm partial to that last bit except that dousing does make an attempt to show that x is linked to fox and that his limitedness isn't towny

the gotchas look really good if you don't reread the actual post he's replying to but they're kinda like ???

the irl stuff is whatever, can't talk about that

[Bonatogether]

i'm glad both dousing and s&c +1ed the posts where i critiqued the guy scumreading them

thanks guys!

[Bonatogether]

Every single site I've ever played on has mentions. If I haven't read thirty pages of a game, and someone drops a case on me but there are no mentions, how exactly do you expect me to find the case? At the end of the day, EVERY site should have mentions. How are you shading me for this?

I mean, do I just happen to have an interesting theory or was I able to get to my laptop and actually iso Fox's posts? Do you disagree with how I narrated Fox's interactions with your slot and how he handled pressure and votes on your slot? How come you read my Fox iso but had no response to it? This feels like fake emotion in this reaction and unnecessary shade.

read the game
[img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ux5cQbO_ybw/maxresdefault.jpg[/img

]

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fuck

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[redacted]

[redacted]

surprisingly real

[Bonatogether]

Imagine Dousing being wolf with Sweet and Jamie. Me using 2% of to bait out the wolf team and DESTROYING them.

imagine the more likely possibility you're wrong

[Dousing]

SNIP

Okay, first thing I want to say that I think it's bad faith to hold me to the same standards that you hold yourself; just because you play a certain way as an alignment does not mean someone else has to or does. Second, I'm not sure why bringing in my experience here has anything to do with how you play? The standards you are applying to my slot do not feel like it's good faith.

So you start off by parroting three 'main points' that Sweet has brought up against me, as well as two 'points in my favor' that Sweet gave me. You make no opinion of your own on these and fail to say how this might solve my alignment either way. However, you then go on to say that these posts interested you for seemingly unrelated reasons. 1. You say you trust Sweet more than me because they are 'acting' reliably. Are they acting reliably or are they actually reliable? What are the reasons for this? 2. I'm not sure how you saying you can't remember what I've done beyond Sweet is relevant to you bringing up the Sweet's main points and points in my favor posts. This also seems fake because right after you make the comment about not remembering anything else I've done, you drop a comment saying I threw a ton of shade Jamie's way. So you obviously did remember SOMETHING else I did. So which is it? Not really sure how these two points made you interested in what Sweet was saying. This feels more like a way to attach yourself to Sweet's argument against me than something you actually believe.

I think saying I am 'hating on new accounts' is pretty disingenuous when this is literally my first game here; how can I be hating on anything? And I like how you are calling me out for open-ended questions when Sweet was calling me out for not asking any questions at all. So which is it that I am doing this game?

You calling me out for not voting EOD1 is complete shade. I was not around for EOD1 and wasn't going to leave my vote just anywhere. I'm not quite sure how I've deserved such sarcasm and mocking accusations from your slot when we haven't even interacted this game.

You summarized my interaction with Jamie but just left it at simple shading of me. Jamie didn't really want to interact with me despite me trying to poke at him. It's funny that you are taking such an issue with that as well. I wonder if there is a specific reason for this?

You mentioning my N1/D2 contributions is pretty moot because I told the thread I wasn't going to be around and able to participate until the weekend. My interactions with Bunny and Haze are because they chose to interact with me and carry on a conversation, not the other way around. I can't really remember my interactions with Bunny N1, but with Haze, they said it was better off for me to interact live if I wasn't caught up, and then we had a few back and forths about where our heads were at.

It's funny you take issue with me after I casually said you were defending Fox right before he got exposed in the thread. My D2 was lackluster, of course it was, because I wasn't able to be in the thread or read. You've also acted like me voting, me responding to something someone asked me to respond to, and me saying you were defending Fox, is somehow a gotcha moment for my D2 play. You haven't really pushed anything other than my interaction with Sweet and me being inactive. There are no original ideas here other than you piggy backing on Sweet's posts against me as well as shading my inactivity after I said I wouldn't be around. I can fully admit I haven't been as active as I would have liked, but that happens sometimes. I can't completely disagree with the fact that I'm a 'dark horse candidate' for wolf, but I also know that I haven't really been around this game and you haven't really made any new or hard points against me. You've simply said I haven't contributed to town and have left it at that. You never dissected any of my posts for ulterior motive, you haven't dismantled my pushes as being incorrect, nor have you given reasons as to why I'm wolf other than I haven't progress the game or helped town much (both things I can admit to). I don't think this is a push done in good faith, and for this to come after I call you out for defending Fox, as well as what I saw with Fox's interactions with you after I isoed him, makes me believe that you are just playing wolf here.

In the beginning of the post I use Sweetandcool's post just to explain *why* I decided to look into you. The fact that the post came from sweet is less important than the fact that the argument against you is a strong one in my opinion.

AS I said before:

(It doesn't *really* matter where the argument came from because the argument itself is very strong imo.)

I talk about how the only memory I have about you is when you beefed with Sweet because it's true. Yes, I bring up your beef with Jamie right after which I admit was confusing.

HOWEVER, you have to keep in mind I was writing this post *after* reading through your history. And it was only *after* I read through your posts that I even remembered that you beefed with Jamie on D1.


Anyway I want to discuss the Haze/Bunny connection:

All I'm saying is that you not just exclusively talked to them in N1 but you also *actively* sought them out.

You said this:

Haze, I trust you with my life, so solve the game for me.

(Which is either a joke I don't understand or you townreading Haze without any reason to)

and this

@Bunnygo I haven't interacted with you yet this game. How come you stayed away so long? Do you feel bad for outing worcej? Do you believe his claim? Who are the wolves?

*Look Sweet I'm asking questions!

In no other case do I really see you trying to connect/build bridges with anyone

[Bonatogether]

I've heard of rule of 3 but never actually seen it done in theory and actually one time as wolf added a random towny to my "town reads" which were two towns right before I got flipped. And it somehow caused a lot of paranoia. I personally dont believe in it. I thought your orignal argument was that wolfs weren't adding their pals which could be true or not ig depending on how they want to play it

have you ever heard of contraction theory?

[Bonatogether]

dousing's wallposts are kinda cringe because i already gathered what he had to say

@dousing go do vca or something useful

[Bonatogether]

then i don't have to

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@Haze, @Xcution

Okay, throughout the game you've both said things that seem "off". For X in particular, I've ascribed that as them being Mafia and just pretending to more or less have poor reading comprehension.

But I am asking sincerely, are you both reading all of the content? I don't know if regulars read all of the content, but if they don't they manage to make comments that don't sound like they have no idea what's going on.

If you are struggling to keep up on accusations made against you, consider ctrl-f your name, that will function as an @ that we all wish we had for the forum.

Peterbot helps too, but I think you've both implied you started using it.

i read everything

[Bonatogether]

Been thinking a lot about this phase about who the scum team would be after allowing me to get a scan off on N1. Didn’t get too far but figured I would share.

I started with thinking about who is clearly not scum because they would not green light allowing me to use my actions. Ghug and damo are the first who come to mind that would not be okay with letting any free actions go. Next is rdr, who would be against it but would probably not fight against a group consensus to execute the plan. These are 3 people I would not be really looking to flip anytime soon.

So, I arrive to who I think would do it: Bona, BB, and Eden are the top of my list of people who would do random shit for the lawlz. Eden still isn’t CC’ed, so he may be exempt from this examination.

In general, it is weird that the scum team let me get a scan off - so I am fairly sure they used the role cop on me, used the ninja on pyxxy, and held the jail back to let BB claim it randomly. I see no reason for them to have wasted the jail on him over Eden.

BB, Jamie, and Dousing are my top suspects atm. Jamie due to the Fox interactions, BB for the randomness and claims, and then Dousing for what everyone already has said.

Hopefully I played chicken right here. If I didn’t, at least I somewhat made up for my D1 by nailing Fox for us.

disagree on brain but respectable take