M80 Game Thread

[rdrivera2005]

Bad we lost Eden without using his powers, but no surprise.

I like the current wagons.

I still didn't see anything from Dousing (and I read his wall at night) that make me believe this slot is town.

##vote Dousing

[sweetandcool]

But it's not being perceived as townie by anyone, so he can't be mafia who knows it looks townie. Sweet is very widely townread, so I don't see why his mafia team would tell him to pursue the strategy.

If he's town, it makes perfect sense. He's tunneling, and he probably doesn't realize where the thread sentiment has gone. It's possible he's used to people like me townreading shit like that, or that his team has totally hung him out to dry and not told him it's pointless, but it just doesn't seem like something scum would do here.

I'll acknowledge that you might be right. And when I voted I did say that I have an open mind. I am willing to vote for a stronger candidate if one crops up, and you know my reads.

But I am pretty comfortable voting for them currently, because I think their behavior is negative for town. I feel like they are at least figuratively team Mafia, if not literally.

At the very least, I am done engaging them for now. I've got to remember my philosophy of not getting bogged down in the mud pit they are trying to drag me into.

Sorry folks, no sexy mud wrestling for you, move along.

So if you can acknowledge I might be town, where does that leave your reads and vote? Let's believe we live in a world where you and me are both town. How do you feel about Dousing using your case to suss me without really adding any of his own opinions or new ideas? Who do you think is the wolf team? It still feels to me that you're like 'X is wolf!!!' but then you're hedging your bets by saying 'but maybe he's not'. You've come at me, said you've reevaluated, come back at me again, and then say you're possibly wrong on my slot. So what does game starts look like when you finally realize I'm town?

I don't think you're the only one who gets confused when I say things like that. I live in a world where there is always a chance my reads are wrong and I'm capable of acknowledging that. It doesn't mean I'm not confident enough in my read on you, and it's certainly not hedging and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I will do you a favour and pretend you are Town for 12 hours or so. I will think about Dousing, even. My initial gut thinks that was Dousing finally engaging in the game, and I liked (not just because you were their target) it. My opinion in regards to alignment for Dousing didn't move either direction, but it was good to see them working a bit.

I will think about it more.

[brainbomb]

I sense dousing is very frantic which sort of shakes up my opinions on the game and if fox was bussing or not.

I do think the counter wagons should include bona however.

[ghug]

He could be town tunneling. He could be mafia and with his vast knowledge he knows that looks towny. He is mafia and was told in maf chat to pursue that strategy. There is even a world where he is town and is correct.

But I don't know. What do you think why?

But it's not being perceived as townie by anyone, so he can't be mafia who knows it looks townie. Sweet is very widely townread, so I don't see why his mafia team would tell him to pursue the strategy.

If he's town, it makes perfect sense. He's tunneling, and he probably doesn't realize where the thread sentiment has gone. It's possible he's used to people like me townreading shit like that, or that his team has totally hung him out to dry and not told him it's pointless, but it just doesn't seem like something scum would do here.

I'll acknowledge that you might be right. And when I voted I did say that I have an open mind. I am willing to vote for a stronger candidate if one crops up, and you know my reads.

But I am pretty comfortable voting for them currently, because I think their behavior is negative for town. I feel like they are at least figuratively team Mafia, if not literally.

At the very least, I am done engaging them for now. I've got to remember my philosophy of not getting bogged down in the mud pit they are trying to drag me into.

Sorry folks, no sexy mud wrestling for you, move along.

The not getting bogged down in arguments is commendable. The "at least figuratively team Mafia" attitude is not. I get the temptation, but one of the skills you need in mafia is working with different playstyles, and that attitude, on top of lowering chances of solving successfully and wasting kills, is also likely to alienate and aggravate people, which is the same thing you're ostensibly trying to avoid by refusing to mud wrestle.

[ghug]

I'll acknowledge that you might be right. And when I voted I did say that I have an open mind. I am willing to vote for a stronger candidate if one crops up, and you know my reads.

But I am pretty comfortable voting for them currently, because I think their behavior is negative for town. I feel like they are at least figuratively team Mafia, if not literally.

At the very least, I am done engaging them for now. I've got to remember my philosophy of not getting bogged down in the mud pit they are trying to drag me into.

Sorry folks, no sexy mud wrestling for you, move along.

So if you can acknowledge I might be town, where does that leave your reads and vote? Let's believe we live in a world where you and me are both town. How do you feel about Dousing using your case to suss me without really adding any of his own opinions or new ideas? Who do you think is the wolf team? It still feels to me that you're like 'X is wolf!!!' but then you're hedging your bets by saying 'but maybe he's not'. You've come at me, said you've reevaluated, come back at me again, and then say you're possibly wrong on my slot. So what does game starts look like when you finally realize I'm town?

I don't think you're the only one who gets confused when I say things like that. I live in a world where there is always a chance my reads are wrong and I'm capable of acknowledging that. It doesn't mean I'm not confident enough in my read on you, and it's certainly not hedging and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I will do you a favour and pretend you are Town for 12 hours or so. I will think about Dousing, even. My initial gut thinks that was Dousing finally engaging in the game, and I liked (not just because you were their target) it. My opinion in regards to alignment for Dousing didn't move either direction, but it was good to see them working a bit.

I will think about it more.

Really? Their engagement was one case and a bunch of surly, undersubstantive posting in thread

[ghug]

I sense dousing is very frantic which sort of shakes up my opinions on the game and if fox was bussing or not.

I do think the counter wagons should include bona however.

Shakes up in which direction?

I like the Bona wagon too.

[ghug]

##VOTE bona, in fact

[sweetandcool]

So if you can acknowledge I might be town, where does that leave your reads and vote? Let's believe we live in a world where you and me are both town. How do you feel about Dousing using your case to suss me without really adding any of his own opinions or new ideas? Who do you think is the wolf team? It still feels to me that you're like 'X is wolf!!!' but then you're hedging your bets by saying 'but maybe he's not'. You've come at me, said you've reevaluated, come back at me again, and then say you're possibly wrong on my slot. So what does game starts look like when you finally realize I'm town?

I don't think you're the only one who gets confused when I say things like that. I live in a world where there is always a chance my reads are wrong and I'm capable of acknowledging that. It doesn't mean I'm not confident enough in my read on you, and it's certainly not hedging and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I will do you a favour and pretend you are Town for 12 hours or so. I will think about Dousing, even. My initial gut thinks that was Dousing finally engaging in the game, and I liked (not just because you were their target) it. My opinion in regards to alignment for Dousing didn't move either direction, but it was good to see them working a bit.

I will think about it more.

Really? Their engagement was one case and a bunch of surly, undersubstantive posting in thread

Well, the one case definitely took some work to put together. They had to have gone through all of X's posts and they were able to point out more clearly my complaint about X.

Of course, if they were Mafia looking to do something tangible, it would be the right play since my complaint is totally valid, and as X pointed out, the thought wasn't original since it all came from me in the first place.

So while my alignment view of Dousing didn't shift considerably, I still think it demonstrated some work, and one complaint about Dousing was lack of work.

I think Dousing's previous posts still align with my view that Dousing was just totally out of the game. They made the same type of weird mistakes I see in X's and Haze's posts, where they make comments as if they haven't read the thread. Of course, they could be unengaged Mafia and even the one responsible for the N1 Mafia missplay (since speculation is that someone on the Mafia team screwed up).

Random conspiracy that I just thought of and haven't thought through:

Dousing, Haze, X, the rest of the Mafia team :D

[ghug]

I don't think you're the only one who gets confused when I say things like that. I live in a world where there is always a chance my reads are wrong and I'm capable of acknowledging that. It doesn't mean I'm not confident enough in my read on you, and it's certainly not hedging and shouldn't be viewed as such.

I will do you a favour and pretend you are Town for 12 hours or so. I will think about Dousing, even. My initial gut thinks that was Dousing finally engaging in the game, and I liked (not just because you were their target) it. My opinion in regards to alignment for Dousing didn't move either direction, but it was good to see them working a bit.

I will think about it more.

Really? Their engagement was one case and a bunch of surly, undersubstantive posting in thread

Well, the one case definitely took some work to put together. They had to have gone through all of X's posts and they were able to point out more clearly my complaint about X.

Of course, if they were Mafia looking to do something tangible, it would be the right play since my complaint is totally valid, and as X pointed out, the thought wasn't original since it all came from me in the first place.

So while my alignment view of Dousing didn't shift considerably, I still think it demonstrated some work, and one complaint about Dousing was lack of work.

I think Dousing's previous posts still align with my view that Dousing was just totally out of the game. They made the same type of weird mistakes I see in X's and Haze's posts, where they make comments as if they haven't read the thread. Of course, they could be unengaged Mafia and even the one responsible for the N1 Mafia missplay (since speculation is that someone on the Mafia team screwed up).

Random conspiracy that I just thought of and haven't thought through:

Dousing, Haze, X, the rest of the Mafia team :D

I don't care about work. It's nice to have, but it tends to not indicate alignment that strongly. What I do care about is what the work looks like when it's done. A long case makes you look involved and important, but ultimately anyone can go through someone's iso and pick things out and make it look scummy. The fact that the argument was sitting there and that it was made at night on someone starting to get more suspicion also make it the sort of low-hanging fruit it makes sense for mafia struggling to latch onto the game to pick as a starting point.

What I don't see is interactions with most people, or opinions on most people, or an attitude that's more concerned about solving the game than personal image. I invite Dousing to come in and do more of that, since it's a lot of things that are missing and not a lot of things that are bad, per se, but it's still a pretty uncompelling image and the big case definitely only worsened that image for me.

A bus is certainly possible, but I'm starting to lean town on X again.

[damo666]

I need Haze to speak

[sweetandcool]

But it's not being perceived as townie by anyone, so he can't be mafia who knows it looks townie. Sweet is very widely townread, so I don't see why his mafia team would tell him to pursue the strategy.

If he's town, it makes perfect sense. He's tunneling, and he probably doesn't realize where the thread sentiment has gone. It's possible he's used to people like me townreading shit like that, or that his team has totally hung him out to dry and not told him it's pointless, but it just doesn't seem like something scum would do here.

I'll acknowledge that you might be right. And when I voted I did say that I have an open mind. I am willing to vote for a stronger candidate if one crops up, and you know my reads.

But I am pretty comfortable voting for them currently, because I think their behavior is negative for town. I feel like they are at least figuratively team Mafia, if not literally.

At the very least, I am done engaging them for now. I've got to remember my philosophy of not getting bogged down in the mud pit they are trying to drag me into.

Sorry folks, no sexy mud wrestling for you, move along.

The not getting bogged down in arguments is commendable. The "at least figuratively team Mafia" attitude is not. I get the temptation, but one of the skills you need in mafia is working with different playstyles, and that attitude, on top of lowering chances of solving successfully and wasting kills, is also likely to alienate and aggravate people, which is the same thing you're ostensibly trying to avoid by refusing to mud wrestle.

You're right ):

I've just picked on X about it because it feels to me like it's less playstyle and more mafiastyle.

Whereas, damo, for example, is quiet and doesn't post much "work". But when they post I get the sense that they are solving in the background. It feels like they are team town. Would I like to hear more from them? Resounding yes. Do I criticize them for it? No.

[Dousing]

Sorry for dipping the moment X went online, it wasn’t intentional I just decided to “rest my eyes” and slept through half of this afternoon

im caught up and gonna respond once I get some housework done.


To address a criticism early. While I do concede that the idea was not mine. I feel like I did a great deal of the legwork and that it really shows since the anti-X wagon would not have formed without my post.

Certainly that *could* look like I was just responding to signaling from Sweet (which means that both me, sweet, and fox are maf) but

1. I think that’s way too obv to do

2. I could make v similar cases about some of y’all when you joined the dousing wagon


Currently I’m suspicious of X, Ghug, Haze, and Bunny. Someone else has also been on my radar too but I wanna check their post history before I put them on my scumreads

[Dousing]

I’ll just park my vote here for now: ##Vote Xcution.

(Y’all know why)

[Dousing]

Sorry for dipping the moment X went online, it wasn’t intentional I just decided to “rest my eyes” and slept through half of this afternoon

im caught up and gonna respond once I get some housework done.


To address a criticism early. While I do concede that the idea was not mine. I feel like I did a great deal of the legwork and that it really shows since the anti-X wagon would not have formed without my post.

Certainly that *could* look like I was just responding to signaling from Sweet (which means that both me, sweet, and fox are maf) but

1. I think that’s way too obv to do

2. I could make v similar cases about some of y’all when you joined the dousing wagon


Currently I’m suspicious of X, Ghug, Haze, and Bunny. Someone else has also been on my radar too but I wanna check their post history before I put them on my scumreads

I also wanna highlight the Haze//Xcution connection from earlier. I’ll justify it in a bit but that was not at all part of Sweet&cool’s original post

[sweetandcool]

Sorry for dipping the moment X went online, it wasn’t intentional I just decided to “rest my eyes” and slept through half of this afternoon

im caught up and gonna respond once I get some housework done.


To address a criticism early. While I do concede that the idea was not mine. I feel like I did a great deal of the legwork and that it really shows since the anti-X wagon would not have formed without my post.

Certainly that *could* look like I was just responding to signaling from Sweet (which means that both me, sweet, and fox are maf) but

1. I think that’s way too obv to do

2. I could make v similar cases about some of y’all when you joined the dousing wagon


Currently I’m suspicious of X, Ghug, Haze, and Bunny. Someone else has also been on my radar too but I wanna check their post history before I put them on my scumreads

I don't understand the logic that in the case you are Mafia, you were responding to teammate sweetandcool signalling you. Weird conclusion, especially since Mafia gets to chat during the night.

[Bonatogether]

bongo reread

i have seen the flip so i'm taking that into account

Oh shit! The game started yesterday?

How the f*** and I gonna catch up 59 pages?

this whole schtick felt like pure bongo and is almost certainly something he decided on pre-game. because of fox's antsy reactions about it, i feel it can't be a scum pairing - why kick up dust about a scummates' actions and role that early? if town mood had been a little different, i could imagine a world where bongo becomes an early wagon, he freaks and breaks his silence, and then it actually looks bad and he's tarred for the next few days. as it was, that didn't really work, and he just was being his goofy goofy self. i don't think this would be a way to predict other people's role because it is based on an assumption, and reacting to schticks is heavily personality-dependent, and because it's so early, contextless.

OK: Bona, this is the first game I've ever townread you D1. Was easier not talking over you. But there was at least one occasion where you went back after B.S.ing some shit and then ALSO followed up a push/question for sweet. Seemed quite towny, and haven't noticed anything to change that opinion since.

again, this feels towny to me. it would be so easy for scum!bongo to scumread me, because, like he says, he always does it, and as a general thing, i am easy to scumread (lack of performance this game aside). it's not as big as fox's reactions to the schtick early on, because it's ppssible bongo planned a pocket on me or something from early on, but that's not the best interpretation of this as i read it

Sweet I took Fox's suggestion and read his day 1 (and I'll admit, I thought initially was female) from last game.

I learned that my mental model (based on this game) that he's an overly logical, thinks he's self aware, but is probably not as self aware as he thinks he is guy. Guessing is into math/cs/tech or related.

But if that model is correct, then I'm happy with him in my town reads.

describing basis of understanding is towny if it can be seen to be applied later

I have written that post 743 by sweet is very towny. Here it is:

viewtopic.php?p=341210&sid=6be2a28cfc0f ... 2e#p341210

and there it is. townpoints for bongo!

the 'worcej scumslip is a prslip' indicates to me that bongo also has to be town because scum!bongo probably just sits on it and lets the scumteam snipe worcej, although the scumteam with that information decided instead to kill pyxxy, so whatever. lmao?



i'm bored so i'm gonna just skim the rest

i think the list of 4 idea that people wanted was dumb

got to the point where i hadn't read the thread so stopping

bongo is towncore

[Bonatogether]

now i will catch up

[Bonatogether]

ghug and eden can call it fake again

[Bonatogether]

read up, dont feel the need to respond to anything new. I was just thinking and decided that if I die tonight, I want yall to look into ghug. Or at least question them a bit. If I don't die, we can ignore ghug for now. Unless it seems like town shot me. Which ig I don't see why they would but maybe I am worse than I feel.

bizarre post

[Bonatogether]

No idea. I've only seen him as town. I'm liking the death paranoia with two PRs out though.

ghug, I think that there is a reason you would kill me. I do not feel there is a reason why others would kill me. This is why I want you to be looked into if I die. I didn't think it was likely at first, but after thinking about it and talking, I think it has become more likely.

You better post your analysis on ghug right before end of night. If you die, I want to know why you suspect ghug, because currently I'm seeing nothing about them that makes me suspicious, and you dieing isn't going to change that if I'm given nothing to work with.

Currently, you just look like Mafia trying to spread some suspicious stink on ghug.

this post doesn't actually follow from what it's responding to