M80 Game Thread

[ghug]

hey let’s slow down fellas

we all got a lil mixed up

no one did anything wrong

it’s all chill

I'm super chill.

I've only said "fuck" twice so far in this whole game - and both times it was to Ghug.

Thanks Jamie, I accept your apology.

[brainbomb]

Forgive me if I say but I do feel that some of the consensus ideas being put forth represent a scumteam that doesnt know how to play mafia.

[sweetandcool]

It sounds like based on how this discussion has gone that the majority of players think dousing is scum.

the majority of players think that pyxxy was killed for reasons that have nothing to do at all with how they posted about dousing, and in fact, pyxxy actually wanted dousing to die, but the motive for killing pyxxy has also never been attributed by anyone to being out of a need to protect dousing from pyxxy either.

the consensus is that mafia holstered driver, their only way to redirect a N1 cop scan or vig shot and chose to save the weapon for later.


So, does anyone object to these conclusions. Is this the town consensus?

I disagree with the weird assumption that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die. I also reject that Dousing being Mafia is a consensus.

[brainbomb]

This doesnt seem to be getting a whole lot of discussion going.

So lets change up the way this dialogue is going.


Did foxcastle bus Dousing?

Does a foxcastle wolf flip make dousing look better or worse?

Does fox bus people when there are tons of viable town counterwagons?

And if Fox is bussing, where are the other two scumteam members on wagons?

Are they on Bozo?

[ghug]

It sounds like based on how this discussion has gone that the majority of players think dousing is scum.

the majority of players think that pyxxy was killed for reasons that have nothing to do at all with how they posted about dousing, and in fact, pyxxy actually wanted dousing to die, but the motive for killing pyxxy has also never been attributed by anyone to being out of a need to protect dousing from pyxxy either.

the consensus is that mafia holstered driver, their only way to redirect a N1 cop scan or vig shot and chose to save the weapon for later.


So, does anyone object to these conclusions. Is this the town consensus?

I disagree with the weird assumption that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die. I also reject that Dousing being Mafia is a consensus.

Yeah, I think it's a common opinion but not a consensus.

I'd like to reread how Fox dealt with the wagon EoD. I think that'll be pretty juicy.

[brainbomb]

bozotheclown (9) Kakarroto pyxxy Jamiet99uk Dousing Haze with a Z brainbomb ghug Foxcastle President Eden
Dousing (4) rdrivera2005 bozotheclown damo666 worcej
President Eden (2) Bonatogether BunnyGo
Xcution (1) sweetandcool
Unvote (1) Xcution

[President Eden]

It sounds like based on how this discussion has gone that the majority of players think dousing is scum.

the majority of players think that pyxxy was killed for reasons that have nothing to do at all with how they posted about dousing, and in fact, pyxxy actually wanted dousing to die, but the motive for killing pyxxy has also never been attributed by anyone to being out of a need to protect dousing from pyxxy either.

the consensus is that mafia holstered driver, their only way to redirect a N1 cop scan or vig shot and chose to save the weapon for later.


So, does anyone object to these conclusions. Is this the town consensus?

not being sure that something happened is not the same as being sure that something didn’t happen.

you are making the mistaken assumption throughout the analysis here that if someone doesn’t necessarily accept your leaps, they must be absolutely sure that the leaps are wrong.

my beliefs are the following:
• Dousing is appreciably likely to be scum and is certainly within a rapidly shrinking POE pool.
• Mafia don’t generally prioritize shooting players who are right this early in the game, so it’s not likely that pyxxy was shot for his suspects pool, but rather for being beyond miskill and bringing a clarity of thought that would make him difficult to misdirect in the long haul.
• I don’t necessarily know that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die, but given the earlier statement about Dousing being in a rapidly shrinking POE pool, I imagine he may have been interested in flipping Dousing.
• I don’t necessarily believe the mafia must have bolstered the bus drive, but I think it’s too difficult with what we know at the moment to speculate on how they would use it in a way that isn’t just confirming what we already want to see in the information we do have.

[President Eden]

It sounds like based on how this discussion has gone that the majority of players think dousing is scum.

the majority of players think that pyxxy was killed for reasons that have nothing to do at all with how they posted about dousing, and in fact, pyxxy actually wanted dousing to die, but the motive for killing pyxxy has also never been attributed by anyone to being out of a need to protect dousing from pyxxy either.

the consensus is that mafia holstered driver, their only way to redirect a N1 cop scan or vig shot and chose to save the weapon for later.


So, does anyone object to these conclusions. Is this the town consensus?

I disagree with the weird assumption that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die. I also reject that Dousing being Mafia is a consensus.

Yeah, I think it's a common opinion but not a consensus.

I'd like to reread how Fox dealt with the wagon EoD. I think that'll be pretty juicy.

he didn’t point blank acknowledge my claim but did jump right to talking and acting as though the claim was legit, even though I feel I made it in an abnormally flippant way that should have prompted some questions (and did, as I recall, from you and perhaps from Jamie too). it struck me that he read my claim, knew I was legit because he knows I’m town, and skipped the step where town would have reacted and processed a bit and jumped straight to acting on it

and before anyone says confbias take a good look at the vote records and see that I believed this BEFORE worcej claimed

[brainbomb]

Im noticing that not only has every person responded by doubting anything ive said, that the majority of responses have suggested the complete opposite takes on what happened.

And no one else weighed in on it, and usually people who dont get involved either have no opinion or they agree with the masses. From my experience saying nothing is akin to compliance.

So if you saw what I said, but said nothing, I take that to mean you didnt agree.

When you saw six people refute a statement, I take that to mean your silence agrees with or is neutral too the mass opinion presented, which is the same as disagreeing with my position.


If what im saying is resonating with you, you would likely speak up and say, yea come to think of it, that does sound optimal.

or hey, yea come to think of it, maybe mafia did kill pyxxy for their reads.

if you just have no opinion on any of it, it is going to come off that the "people" sharing a groupthink opinion are going to carry that opinion moving forward and frame a gamestate around that opinion, and a mindset around that opinion, and act upon that opinion. So if that groupthink opinion is shared, but has some caveats or nuanuces, the vast majority of people will still resonate more with the groupthink than with self checking on that group bias.

This is not to say I am right and all of you are wrong. But it is to say youre all more aligned in your opinions than you are with mine. so it makes it less likely we will all be hunting the same types of people.

[sweetandcool]

Im noticing that not only has every person responded by doubting anything ive said, that the majority of responses have suggested the complete opposite takes on what happened.

And no one else weighed in on it, and usually people who dont get involved either have no opinion or they agree with the masses. From my experience saying nothing is akin to compliance.

So if you saw what I said, but said nothing, I take that to mean you didnt agree.

When you saw six people refute a statement, I take that to mean your silence agrees with or is neutral too the mass opinion presented, which is the same as disagreeing with my position.


If what im saying is resonating with you, you would likely speak up and say, yea come to think of it, that does sound optimal.

or hey, yea come to think of it, maybe mafia did kill pyxxy for their reads.

if you just have no opinion on any of it, it is going to come off that the "people" sharing a groupthink opinion are going to carry that opinion moving forward and frame a gamestate around that opinion, and a mindset around that opinion, and act upon that opinion. So if that groupthink opinion is shared, but has some caveats or nuanuces, the vast majority of people will still resonate more with the groupthink than with self checking on that group bias.

This is not to say I am right and all of you are wrong. But it is to say youre all more aligned in your opinions than you are with mine. so it makes it less likely we will all be hunting the same types of people.

Plenty of my analysis has not been met with replies. I neither assume that people agree with my analysis nor disagree with it.

[sweetandcool]

I just assume it wasn't exciting or people didn't read it. Which to be fair, I haven't got to the interesting stuff yet.

[ghug]

I just assume it wasn't exciting or people didn't read it. Which to be fair, I haven't got to the interesting stuff yet.

I read it. Seems fine enough. Filed away for later.

[brainbomb]

not being sure that something happened is not the same as being sure that something didn’t happen.

you are making the mistaken assumption throughout the analysis here that if someone doesn’t necessarily accept your leaps, they must be absolutely sure that the leaps are wrong.

my beliefs are the following:
1• Dousing is appreciably likely to be scum and is certainly within a rapidly shrinking POE pool.

2• Mafia don’t generally prioritize shooting players who are right this early in the game, so it’s not likely that pyxxy was shot for his suspects pool, but rather for being beyond miskill and bringing a clarity of thought that would make him difficult to misdirect in the long haul.

3• I don’t necessarily know that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die, but given the earlier statement about Dousing being in a rapidly shrinking POE pool, I imagine he may have been interested in flipping Dousing.

4• I don’t necessarily believe the mafia must have bolstered the bus drive, but I think it’s too difficult with what we know at the moment to speculate on how they would use it in a way that isn’t just confirming what we already want to see in the information we do have.

1. Dousing is not really very scummy from my perspective, and I dont see any reason why they ended up in this spot actually.

2. I would fundanmentally disgree to the utmost. Mafia prioritize killing the players who are the RIGHTEST, as soon as possible. Players with a voice who are accurate are preferential deaths.

3. The fact pyxxy argued directly with a known scum foxcastle and told him straight up how bad of a vote it was makes me think pyxxy was killed for at least SOME reason related to dousing. and thus wifom sets in.

4. All I know is that the cop was very likely not going to holster. So if bus driver holstered it was coming from a maf team that did not care at all if a cop scan went off. So I tend to lean more toward they did bus driver, and I think someone like dousing makes alot of sense to be the target in such a scenario. Where they can frame that person or salvage that person. whichever way it was gonna go here

[sweetandcool]

not being sure that something happened is not the same as being sure that something didn’t happen.

you are making the mistaken assumption throughout the analysis here that if someone doesn’t necessarily accept your leaps, they must be absolutely sure that the leaps are wrong.

my beliefs are the following:
1• Dousing is appreciably likely to be scum and is certainly within a rapidly shrinking POE pool.

2• Mafia don’t generally prioritize shooting players who are right this early in the game, so it’s not likely that pyxxy was shot for his suspects pool, but rather for being beyond miskill and bringing a clarity of thought that would make him difficult to misdirect in the long haul.

3• I don’t necessarily know that pyxxy wanted Dousing to die, but given the earlier statement about Dousing being in a rapidly shrinking POE pool, I imagine he may have been interested in flipping Dousing.

4• I don’t necessarily believe the mafia must have bolstered the bus drive, but I think it’s too difficult with what we know at the moment to speculate on how they would use it in a way that isn’t just confirming what we already want to see in the information we do have.

1. Dousing is not really very scummy from my perspective, and I dont see any reason why they ended up in this spot actually.

2. I would fundanmentally disgree to the utmost. Mafia prioritize killing the players who are the RIGHTEST, as soon as possible. Players with a voice who are accurate are preferential deaths.

3. The fact pyxxy argued directly with a known scum foxcastle and told him straight up how bad of a vote it was makes me think pyxxy was killed for at least SOME reason related to dousing. and thus wifom sets in.

4. All I know is that the cop was very likely not going to holster. So if bus driver holstered it was coming from a maf team that did not care at all if a cop scan went off. So I tend to lean more toward they did bus driver, and I think someone like dousing makes alot of sense to be the target in such a scenario. Where they can frame that person or salvage that person. whichever way it was gonna go here

As far as your opinion on (2). I think you need to reframe your mindset for this game. In this game's setup, Town has a plethora of ways to protect and possibly catch Mafia. Consequently, Mafia was incentivesed to make a safe kill.

In other setups, what you are saying would make more sense.

[Jamiet99uk]

hey let’s slow down fellas

we all got a lil mixed up

no one did anything wrong

it’s all chill

I'm super chill.

I've only said "fuck" twice so far in this whole game - and both times it was to Ghug.

Thanks Jamie, I accept your apology.

Fuck.

[brainbomb]

Also if the state purpose of killing Pyxxy was to avoid doc saves and watchers, why then would mafia waste a ninja or strongman on pyxxy? That part of the argument did not make a whole lot of sense.

The whole reason for killing pyxxy is to not need to use those powers.

[brainbomb]

As far as your opinion on (2). I think you need to reframe your mindset for this game. In this game's setup, Town has a plethora of ways to protect and possibly catch Mafia. Consequently, Mafia was incentivesed to make a safe kill.

In other setups, what you are saying would make more sense.

Sure so lets say that is the reason they kill Pyxxy. Then if its a safe kill they also shouldnt need to use Ninja here either.

[sweetandcool]

Also if the state purpose of killing Pyxxy was to avoid doc saves and watchers, why then would mafia waste a ninja or strongman on pyxxy? That part of the argument did not make a whole lot of sense.

The whole reason for killing pyxxy is to not need to use those powers.

A strongman would be a waste, since ptxxy was unlikely to be protected. You could say a ninja would be a waste too, but I think it's a good ability to use just in case. Mafia has to consider their killer getting tracked, and if that happened it would be really bad. It makes sense to guarantee one day of safety.

Ninja is one of those powers where you use it or lose it, I say.

[sweetandcool]

As far as your opinion on (2). I think you need to reframe your mindset for this game. In this game's setup, Town has a plethora of ways to protect and possibly catch Mafia. Consequently, Mafia was incentivesed to make a safe kill.

In other setups, what you are saying would make more sense.

Sure so lets say that is the reason they kill Pyxxy. Then if its a safe kill they also shouldnt need to use Ninja here either.

No, the killer has to worry about being tracked, regardless of kill target.

[brainbomb]

Also just to be clear. because I know how webdip is, and I know someone is eventually going to say they ignored all this discussion today because it was mech talk.
And I want to destroy that argument before it ever gets made.

What scum did, or is doing is about Motive.
Speculation on why scum took a course of action is extremely important for how you envision what the mafia team looks like.

And while we have the time to produce a think tank on what mafia did, what powers they used, this is not about mech talk. This is about speculative anaylsis of what mafia is doing. And if we can figure out what mafia is doing, the scumteam becomes obvious.
The members of that scumteam start to have nowhere to hide.

We can fill in the blanks of who they are, when we have discerned what it is most likely that they did.

And the way we do that is by narrowing down what they did, and eliminating the things they were least likely to have done.

That is the goal