M80 Game Thread

[pyxxy]

i think eden is capable of giving a lot of smoke and a lot of flair but as scum he just doesn't have substance

brain had it right earlier on, but it's really the case - see me vs eden last game. eden tried to make it a credibility war where we would together decide on options to resolve a hard cc battle, but really that was dumb. town eden isn't stupid

well, I don't see it in the post from eden that you quoted. I guess I should stop for today and look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. And probably look at the brain/eden argument again just to be sure, but not before I go to sleep.

that post just set off alarm bells for what i viewed as a facetious attempt to set up pyxxy towards scumreading me. i don't object to being scumread, or to people convincing other people to scumreading me, but that it seemed to be being done on the sly like it was is a red flag for me

consider the facetious facilitated

[ghug]

holy shit you could cut the irony with a knife

I mean, I can talk and respond without needing to be asked questions.

I think it's hilarious that you only spoke in questions here. But moving on, I finally got around to reviewing post history and I think I know what's going on.

Post 572: You bring up the issue that you think I'm being too self aware and "nervous".

Post 853: You quote my response, where I explain that I am only nervous about D1 because I don't know how to play it. I guess it didn't satisfy your concern about my self awareness, but it was a good faith effort to address your concerns.

This post confused me because the first sentence seemed to imply to me that you asked me questions that I did not answer. It turns out no questions were asked, and in fact you went on to reiterate the concerns that I thought I had just addressed.

Post 1018: You claim to have been asking me questions that I have not been answering. This further confused me into thinking you had mysterious questions that I did not understand. It turns out this was not the case. You never asked a question.

Post 1023: You quote my response to 1018. I do a better job of addressing your concern about my self-awareness (though I felt like I was essentially repeating myself). It turns out you really don't like questions because you never asked any here. But you again reiterated your views for like the third time, but finally you demand I give you two people I would shoot and two people I would save. Essentially a question, and finally something new to work with.

Post 1127: Fun sidenote here, but Jamiet complains about you railing against him without asking any questions. And other than a page 13 question, which could have easily been missed, you never really asked them anything substantial either. Hilariously in this post you practically ask them nothing of note, yet again. Maybe you're the problem here....

Post 1170: Claims not to give a fuck about my newness, yet makes it a talking point. Okay, in writing this summary so far, I can see how my newness wasn't the focus of your concern, but you were incorporating it as a talking point. And I'm annoyed this still has to be dredged up yet again.

I mean, it seems that you can't accept my explanations as to why I am self-aware. Nothing seems to satisfy you. And you keep coming back to the point that I am new as a justification for your position. Pretty hypocritical, but I suppose in this post it's clear you are finally being emotional as well.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to point out that you are distracting us both from wolf hunting. Has this issue actually been so concerning to you that you think it's the most productive thing you could be doing? It really makes me hope you are Mafia because clearly I'm terrible at blowing people off when they are wasting my time.

Post 1179: Finally, you start laying down the questions, and regain the more productive mindset that was promised by your behavior at the beginning of the game. It took some begging from me, and even Jamiet making the same complete, but we finally got there.

Post 1186: This is too funny because poor Jamiet has to deal with your response which contains no questions. The poor guy just asked you what you wanted to him, and you respond by mocking him. Just ask him a damn question and you'll probably get an answer.

Post 1266: I really don't get this response. Despite you hardly giving me any direct answers, I actually had been addressing all of your concerns over and over. So I'm pretty pleased I managed to interpret what you wanted, and made a good effort to address your concerns. The issue is that you didn't like any of my responses, but somehow you've decided I'm complaining about questions.

Again, I guess the issue here is that your behavior seemed to indicated I wasn't addressing your concerns, and so I concluded you must have some questions for me. I asked you what questions you had and instead of formulating something, you just whined.

It really comes down to me not wanting to make the extra effort of reading your mind, and you not wanting to make the extra effort to spoon-feed me what's on your mind.

I haven't responded to your last post or two, so I guess that is next. But I can see now that, bizarrely, part of the issue in communication between us is that your behavior indicated to me that you had questions for me, and for some reason you hated being asked what those questions were. And in the other direction, you felt like you weren't asking questions, you just wanted a dialogue where I convinced you that I wasn't Mafia, or something along those lines, I'm really still a bit fuzzy on what your goal was since it doesn't seem like you've ever been prepared to listen to anything I've said.

I'm sorry, but I'm not looking up that many posts without quotes.

[ghug]

TLDR for everybody that isn't X:

X really hates questions. They'll say things that imply questions that they want addressed, but asking a question is not something they generally like to do, even if you request them to clarify what you want from them.

Interpret any way you like, but so far the energy they've spent on me has been an exercise in futility that definitely makes them look busy while being incredibly unproductive. They may have a point that me being self-aware is weird (actually, I don't really get it, but other people like Foxcastle for example do, so I guess it's a thing), but they really haven't followed up with any substantial content.

I'm scumreading them big time, because they definitely believe that producing content and looking busy is important work for Mafia, and it's something they have been doing masterfully. They are capable of much better, and I think we would have seen that if they were town.

Please, ##VOTE Xcution , and rid us of someone who is much more likely to be Mafia than not.

Did sweet do this shit last game? It's so intense.

[pyxxy]

there are PRs in this game?

[pyxxy]

(hehehehehehehehehehehehe)

[ghug]

This game I've felt similarly. It's just that President Eden has been taking a new tact of doing the opposite of pocketing me, which in itself feels like a pocket. Which sounds crazy.

So I conclude that I tend to scumread President Eden, and when they flip this game, I will find out whether my scumreading is unfair or not. But right now I think a proper scumread of them is unfair. Of course, a dive through their posts might give me more clarity, but I wasted that effort on you instead.

Ok fine.

This is not how scum come to townreads. If you think he's very aware of his own image, sure, but I believe that's just how he is (a la Balki).

[ghug]

"What posts of Bona's made you think he was "building to something,""
Not posts, more my mental model of his cadence.

Right, but I assume he did some things early besides that one post you quoted to convince you that he was hitting that cadence. Did he?

hello I'm back

same caveat about this being post-rationalization of my feelings as I go through Bona's ISO to find examples

What does stop you voting him? Not saying that you should, just asking why you are not?


Also, how do you like my pirate name?

voting first is inauspicious

kak doesnt seem very town.

its quite look at me im so town; but its mostly flavour talk and randomly deciding people are pirates

someone says this every game

Sure. Care to explain? Why have you decided to just say you dislike my posts yet fail to answer my question or clarify your reasons?

i didn't fail to answer your question - i just hadn't attempted it at that time

to extemporize, i dislike this post specifically because it's Serious and uses big words like Wolf Reading and Pressure and Throwaway, when i only know words less than 7 letters, and it's day 1, so like, who cares man? just figure it out later and have fun now

i feel like someone unused to webdip is likely to enter day 1 on a different gear than most other people here are on, and their reactions to that (and if and how they switch gears to be in sync) is revealing

iso considered harmful.

[ghug]

there are PRs in this game?

JOATJOATJOATJOATJOAT

[pyxxy]

Right, but I assume he did some things early besides that one post you quoted to convince you that he was hitting that cadence. Did he?

hello I'm back

same caveat about this being post-rationalization of my feelings as I go through Bona's ISO to find examples

voting first is inauspicious

someone says this every game

i didn't fail to answer your question - i just hadn't attempted it at that time

to extemporize, i dislike this post specifically because it's Serious and uses big words like Wolf Reading and Pressure and Throwaway, when i only know words less than 7 letters, and it's day 1, so like, who cares man? just figure it out later and have fun now

i feel like someone unused to webdip is likely to enter day 1 on a different gear than most other people here are on, and their reactions to that (and if and how they switch gears to be in sync) is revealing

iso considered harmful.

*takes damage*

[sweetandcool]

I mean, I can talk and respond without needing to be asked questions.

I think it's hilarious that you only spoke in questions here. But moving on, I finally got around to reviewing post history and I think I know what's going on.

Post 572: You bring up the issue that you think I'm being too self aware and "nervous".

Post 853: You quote my response, where I explain that I am only nervous about D1 because I don't know how to play it. I guess it didn't satisfy your concern about my self awareness, but it was a good faith effort to address your concerns.

This post confused me because the first sentence seemed to imply to me that you asked me questions that I did not answer. It turns out no questions were asked, and in fact you went on to reiterate the concerns that I thought I had just addressed.

Post 1018: You claim to have been asking me questions that I have not been answering. This further confused me into thinking you had mysterious questions that I did not understand. It turns out this was not the case. You never asked a question.

Post 1023: You quote my response to 1018. I do a better job of addressing your concern about my self-awareness (though I felt like I was essentially repeating myself). It turns out you really don't like questions because you never asked any here. But you again reiterated your views for like the third time, but finally you demand I give you two people I would shoot and two people I would save. Essentially a question, and finally something new to work with.

Post 1127: Fun sidenote here, but Jamiet complains about you railing against him without asking any questions. And other than a page 13 question, which could have easily been missed, you never really asked them anything substantial either. Hilariously in this post you practically ask them nothing of note, yet again. Maybe you're the problem here....

Post 1170: Claims not to give a fuck about my newness, yet makes it a talking point. Okay, in writing this summary so far, I can see how my newness wasn't the focus of your concern, but you were incorporating it as a talking point. And I'm annoyed this still has to be dredged up yet again.

I mean, it seems that you can't accept my explanations as to why I am self-aware. Nothing seems to satisfy you. And you keep coming back to the point that I am new as a justification for your position. Pretty hypocritical, but I suppose in this post it's clear you are finally being emotional as well.

I'm also going to take this opportunity to point out that you are distracting us both from wolf hunting. Has this issue actually been so concerning to you that you think it's the most productive thing you could be doing? It really makes me hope you are Mafia because clearly I'm terrible at blowing people off when they are wasting my time.

Post 1179: Finally, you start laying down the questions, and regain the more productive mindset that was promised by your behavior at the beginning of the game. It took some begging from me, and even Jamiet making the same complete, but we finally got there.

Post 1186: This is too funny because poor Jamiet has to deal with your response which contains no questions. The poor guy just asked you what you wanted to him, and you respond by mocking him. Just ask him a damn question and you'll probably get an answer.

Post 1266: I really don't get this response. Despite you hardly giving me any direct answers, I actually had been addressing all of your concerns over and over. So I'm pretty pleased I managed to interpret what you wanted, and made a good effort to address your concerns. The issue is that you didn't like any of my responses, but somehow you've decided I'm complaining about questions.

Again, I guess the issue here is that your behavior seemed to indicated I wasn't addressing your concerns, and so I concluded you must have some questions for me. I asked you what questions you had and instead of formulating something, you just whined.

It really comes down to me not wanting to make the extra effort of reading your mind, and you not wanting to make the extra effort to spoon-feed me what's on your mind.

I haven't responded to your last post or two, so I guess that is next. But I can see now that, bizarrely, part of the issue in communication between us is that your behavior indicated to me that you had questions for me, and for some reason you hated being asked what those questions were. And in the other direction, you felt like you weren't asking questions, you just wanted a dialogue where I convinced you that I wasn't Mafia, or something along those lines, I'm really still a bit fuzzy on what your goal was since it doesn't seem like you've ever been prepared to listen to anything I've said.

I'm sorry, but I'm not looking up that many posts without quotes.

Sorry, here are the post links, in order of mention:

572: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 24#p341024

853: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 29#p341329

1018: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 99#p341499

1023: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 04#p341504

1127: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 11#p341611

1170: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 54#p341654

1179: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 63#p341663

1186: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 70#p341670

1266: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 50#p341750

[pyxxy]

there are PRs in this game?

JOATJOATJOATJOATJOAT

sounds like a perfect game for me to get lost in unhelpful highly theoretical and ultimately NAI mech talk

[pyxxy]

delayer power (Quartermaster):
- only useful to try and mess with the Royalist Spy
- could mess with a town PR by accident
- _please do not use this tonight_

the informant power is probably the best D1 option for QTRMSTER, if a power must be used

Priest:
- dont bother with WIFOM re: saving worcej
- would encourage using track or neighbor tonight (N1)

Navigator:
- would not jail worcej tn
- would maybe commute worcej tn
- otoh I'm only at like 80% belief of his claim so if you wanted to sit this one out, I understand
- Cop is a great power to use this time of year

Captain:
- please don't shoot me
- that's it
- oh right wait uh maybe watch worcej
- yeah do that
- it's pretty cool because if you watch worcej, then none of the other PRs have to worry about worcej

_gonna say that last part again_

I think the right play for town is to have the Captain watch worcej and the rest is _who wants to know, eh?_

and worcej if you're somehow the Captain please don't say so

this has been mech talk with pyxxy

[pyxxy]

actually yeah this works pretty well

scum can't drive to fool the Watch power because then the watcher just reports back who the driver was and EzChop

get rekt scum

if worcej is truly outed then he just uses whatever power he thinks is best, plays the WIFOM game, and reports back to the thread if he lives

actually maybe this is something I would want to talk to worcej about

I think it is mandatory, worcej, that you use one of your powers tonight. No need to out your role, no need to say which power. But we need you to (if town) maximize your usefulness while alive or (if scum) feed us fake info that lets us chop you later on

TLDR:
Pirate Captain should probably watch worcej tonight
rest of PRs should probably leave worcej alone to force scum into WIFOM
worcej must use a power tonight in case he lives

open to feedback on this analysis

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm going to call this post wolfy because you already tried to explain how you saying 'someone is off' was meant as a joke, but now I feel like you're purposely trying to make sure everyone thinks you were joking. I'm not sure what your motivation with these type of posts are.

You seem off this game.

Point and case right here. We've never played together so now this looks like you're trying hard to make jokes and seen non-serious to cover up others calling you out for some of your comment. 'B-but I was just joking, see!' Not sure what the purpose of this post is if it doesn't have ulterior motives.

Making jokes is a natural part of how this community plays the game; if you're going to scum-read people for that, you will end up with a lot of scumreads.

Just saying.

[Jamiet99uk]

well we better hammer him so he doesnt get a chance to flood the game with scummy stuff

##end

When does Bozo ever "flood" the game with anything?

[Jamiet99uk]

Can't argue there. ##end

Wow.

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh shit! The game started yesterday?

How the f*** and I gonna catch up 59 pages?

Ho ho ho.

[Jamiet99uk]

How come I'm on your do not kill list? Also, I have opposite vibes right now on Jamie and Damo. I still think there is something disingenuous about the way Jaime is posting. I thought that Damo's catchup had some decent takes and I didn't think he was just posting to feel like he needed to catch up with things and appear active. What are you seeing that I'm not?

I asked you if you have any questions for me.

You ignore me when I directly address you, yet you continue to throw shade on me.

Dislike.

Okay, I'm not sure if this is just a site thing, but why are people demanding questions yet don't feel like ever giving reasons for what they say? Jamie, I've literally been commenting on your slot this entire game, and you finally chose to engage me halfway through D1. I think it's incredibly disingenuous to come out and say that I've been ignoring you when I've literally been transparent with my thoughts on your slot. I'd have to iso you and look through specific points in order to pull out my exact issues, but like I don't think you're trying to play in a way that is flirting with the line between serious and joking so that you can conveniently jump back and forth and when someone calls you out, you can say 'jkjkjkjk'. I'm having a hard time trying to follow your thought progression and see your thinking in a linear way. Perhaps I'm doing a disservice by not having specific posts of yours to show and comment on (though I have quoted you numerous times saying I don't like certain posts), but I also don't have QUESTIONS, I have ISSUES. So I'm not trying to interview you here right now, I'm trying to get a response from you and trying to understand and see where you are coming from. However, all you can say is 'wHeRe ArE tHe QuEsTiOnS'.

Okay then.

I will do the work that you're less willing to do than I would ideally like.

I will, in due course (give me a few hours, I'm at work) iso your comments on me and see if I can find anything to correct you on.

[Jamiet99uk]

Eden's posts been tweaking me all game. This is neither the funny BSing early game Eden that I'm used to, nor the deliberative and thoughtful Eden I've seen in other parts of the game. I don't get it, and scum leaning for it.

Also, did you really wager your son's life on something? And since when do you HAVE a son?

Bonatogether is Eden's adopted stepchild.

[Jamiet99uk]

I often scumread jamie early. This game is no different. I don't get his style of play. Like, did he REALLY not get that ghug was making a joke calling Eden's post a fake jamie one?

I can't tell when jamie is pretending to be jamie or not.

Hi

I'm Jamie

I love you very much