MAFIA 79: The Price is Right! [GAME THREAD]

[bozotheclown]

Now that we definitely know I was driven there are only two worlds we can live in:

World 1: sweetandcool is Mafia. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing. So actually sweetandcool is Mafia traitor.

World 2: sweetandcool is Bodyguard. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing.

Crap, I was planning on concluding that in world 1 Mafia needed to take 2 powers, but that's not true. So not nearly as exonerating as I thought. Still posting because I tried

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

Correct! Sorry, I'm being very lousy at keeping this straight. I really need to write down on paper things that are globally known and things that are only known or believed by me.

I'll stop trying now. Only looking like an idiot.

Thank you bozo.

Do you think Bonatogether's claim that he saw PE visit you could be fake?

[sweetandcool]

Now that we definitely know I was driven there are only two worlds we can live in:

World 1: sweetandcool is Mafia. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing. So actually sweetandcool is Mafia traitor.

World 2: sweetandcool is Bodyguard. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing.

Crap, I was planning on concluding that in world 1 Mafia needed to take 2 powers, but that's not true. So not nearly as exonerating as I thought. Still posting because I tried

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

This is probably stupid, but I'm townreading Bozo because I have no idea why Mafia would help me muddle through this.

[sweetandcool]

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

Correct! Sorry, I'm being very lousy at keeping this straight. I really need to write down on paper things that are globally known and things that are only known or believed by me.

I'll stop trying now. Only looking like an idiot.

Thank you bozo.

Do you think Bonatogether's claim that he saw PE visit you could be fake?

No, I can't believe it is fake.

The only way it's fake is if Bona and Eden went to truly epic lengths to quasi-verify Bona with all of that back and forth and Bona's excessive posts. You could just feel the frustration roiling off of Bona. Such a truly epic swindle deserves to be falled for, hook line and sinker.

So no, can't be fake.

[bozotheclown]

Correct! Sorry, I'm being very lousy at keeping this straight. I really need to write down on paper things that are globally known and things that are only known or believed by me.

I'll stop trying now. Only looking like an idiot.

Thank you bozo.

Do you think Bonatogether's claim that he saw PE visit you could be fake?

No, I can't believe it is fake.

The only way it's fake is if Bona and Eden went to truly epic lengths to quasi-verify Bona with all of that back and forth and Bona's excessive posts. You could just feel the frustration roiling off of Bona. Such a truly epic swindle deserves to be falled for, hook line and sinker.

So no, can't be fake.

I would expect the tracker to see PE visit Dousing if you were driven with Dousing and PE visited you, which is the reason for my question about the tracker/driver interaction.

[sweetandcool]

Do you think Bonatogether's claim that he saw PE visit you could be fake?

No, I can't believe it is fake.

The only way it's fake is if Bona and Eden went to truly epic lengths to quasi-verify Bona with all of that back and forth and Bona's excessive posts. You could just feel the frustration roiling off of Bona. Such a truly epic swindle deserves to be falled for, hook line and sinker.

So no, can't be fake.

I would expect the tracker to see PE visit Dousing if you were driven with Dousing and PE visited you, which is the reason for my question about the tracker/driver interaction.

Ah, I see. I think tracker would see what Bona claims, but obviously your interpretation is pretty likely too. I guess we will have to see what GM says.

Again, you are equally likely to be correct, but here is the logic I think happens mechanically:

1. Bona tracks Eden. JOAT drives sweetandcool with Dousing.
2. Eden "kills" sweetandcool. Bona, sees Eden visit sweetandcool, but Eden's kill action applies to Dousing because of the drive.

I think this is correct because drive seems to target the actions made on a player. It doesn't actually redirect who they visited. So Eden still visited me, but the action they took on me applied to Dousing.

[bozotheclown]

I don't see why the mafia would choose to drive sweetandcool with Dousing if sweetandcool and Bonatogether are town, when they could have driven anyone else with Dousing. PE could even have driven himself with Dousing.

The other possibilities I can think of are:

1. Bonatogether is mafia, sweetandcool is town, and sweetandcool was driven with Dousing. This would mean that the mafia only chose the JOAT and not to recruit the traitor, which does not seem likely.

2. Bonatogether is town, sweetandcool is mafia, and sweetandcool was driven with Dousing to try to clear sweetandcool. This also would mean that the mafia only chose the JOAT and not to recruit the traitor.

3. Bonatogether and sweetandcool are mafia. If this is the case, the mafia did not make any selections. However, the 2 mafia goons would have known the identity of the traitor when PE, Bonatogether, and sweetandcool all claimed to be PRs, if they did not figure it out sooner. Bonatogether claiming PE visited sweetandcool provides an explanation why sweetandcool did not prevent the Dousing NK.

I think number 3 makes sense, because sweetandcool claimed when he realized he was identified by Dousing, and PE and Bonatogether claimed because they thought they were identified by Chaqa.

In the case where Bonatogether is mafia, the mafia could have used the strongman, but that would still mean they have a JOAT, so it is no different.

[bozotheclown]

No, I can't believe it is fake.

The only way it's fake is if Bona and Eden went to truly epic lengths to quasi-verify Bona with all of that back and forth and Bona's excessive posts. You could just feel the frustration roiling off of Bona. Such a truly epic swindle deserves to be falled for, hook line and sinker.

So no, can't be fake.

I would expect the tracker to see PE visit Dousing if you were driven with Dousing and PE visited you, which is the reason for my question about the tracker/driver interaction.

Ah, I see. I think tracker would see what Bona claims, but obviously your interpretation is pretty likely too. I guess we will have to see what GM says.

Again, you are equally likely to be correct, but here is the logic I think happens mechanically:

1. Bona tracks Eden. JOAT drives sweetandcool with Dousing.
2. Eden "kills" sweetandcool. Bona, sees Eden visit sweetandcool, but Eden's kill action applies to Dousing because of the drive.

I think this is correct because drive seems to target the actions made on a player. It doesn't actually redirect who they visited. So Eden still visited me, but the action they took on me applied to Dousing.

I don't think that is typical for a driver action on this site, but the answer is not clear from the setup.

[sweetandcool]

I think GM answers your question here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 08#p338908

[sweetandcool]

I think GM answers your question here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 08#p338908

Though it looks like the GM contradicts themself later in the page. At least the first "no" is contradicted by Chaqa's later question.

[sweetandcool]

Dang, I totally see why people think I'm the traitor. I haven't thought of the traitor role since D1. I thought the traitor would have to find a sneaky way to communicate. But actually, what I have done (if I were the traitor), I hid in plain sight. I spent two days in a row fiercely targeting town players, guiding Mafia towards an easy town kill. Not a bad result for the traitor. Assuming they didn't recruit, it will be interesting to find out if they ever thought I was the traitor.

I will have to remember this for next time. What an informative game!

[Jamiet99uk]

PRESIDENT EDEN HAS DIED. He was a Mafia Goon.

Night 4 has begun. You may post.

Whoopy doopy doo.

[Bonatogether]

Now that we definitely know I was driven there are only two worlds we can live in:

World 1: sweetandcool is Mafia. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing. So actually sweetandcool is Mafia traitor.

World 2: sweetandcool is Bodyguard. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing.

Crap, I was planning on concluding that in world 1 Mafia needed to take 2 powers, but that's not true. So not nearly as exonerating as I thought. Still posting because I tried

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

Correct! Sorry, I'm being very lousy at keeping this straight. I really need to write down on paper things that are globally known and things that are only known or believed by me.

I'll stop trying now. Only looking like an idiot.

Thank you bozo.

i think there's only true and false things. it never hurt anyone to say some shit that someone else couldn't verify

[Bonatogether]

Now that we definitely know I was driven there are only two worlds we can live in:

World 1: sweetandcool is Mafia. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing. So actually sweetandcool is Mafia traitor.

World 2: sweetandcool is Bodyguard. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing.

Crap, I was planning on concluding that in world 1 Mafia needed to take 2 powers, but that's not true. So not nearly as exonerating as I thought. Still posting because I tried

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

This is probably stupid, but I'm townreading Bozo because I have no idea why Mafia would help me muddle through this.

bad reason

[Jamiet99uk]

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

This is probably stupid, but I'm townreading Bozo because I have no idea why Mafia would help me muddle through this.

bad reason

Bozo has a tendency to talk about mechanics as any alignment, it's not suggestive of whether he's scum or not, that he would do that.

[Chaqa]

Now that we definitely know I was driven there are only two worlds we can live in:

World 1: sweetandcool is Mafia. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing. So actually sweetandcool is Mafia traitor.

World 2: sweetandcool is Bodyguard. Eden killed them, but JOAT drove them with Dousing.

Crap, I was planning on concluding that in world 1 Mafia needed to take 2 powers, but that's not true. So not nearly as exonerating as I thought. Still posting because I tried

If you and Bonatogether are mafia, there doesn't need to be a JOAT.

This is probably stupid, but I'm townreading Bozo because I have no idea why Mafia would help me muddle through this.

I’m confused why you’re acting like this is some big revelation when I sorted this out yesterday lol

[Chaqa]

I think GM answers your question here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 08#p338908

Though it looks like the GM contradicts themself later in the page. At least the first "no" is contradicted by Chaqa's later question.

Yeah I figured I’d sort it out later lol

[Foxcastle]

eden you motherfucker

you visited sweetandcool

you want to wifom this shit because there's no way you survive after that scumclaim


##vote President Eden

##end

I am not sure it is even possible for Bonatogether to have seen PE visit sweetandcool, since PE was a goon and sweetandcool was not NKed.

##CALL GM: If the tracker targets player A, player A targets player B, and player B and player C are driven, would the tracker be notified that player A visited player B or player C?

##GM NOTE: In this case, the tracker would be notified that Player A visited Player B. The driver does not change who a player visits.

[dargorygel]

I think GM answers your question here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 08#p338908

Though it looks like the GM contradicts themself later in the page. At least the first "no" is contradicted by Chaqa's later question.

Yeah I figured I’d sort it out later lol

Consider it sorted. I was wrong. Incorrect. Silly.
Apologies for answering in haste, chaqa (and all.)

See foxcastle's answer directly above... which I agree with, endorse, and re-concluded similarly.

[damo666]

eden you motherfucker

you visited sweetandcool

you want to wifom this shit because there's no way you survive after that scumclaim


##vote President Eden

##end

I am not sure it is even possible for Bonatogether to have seen PE visit sweetandcool, since PE was a goon and sweetandcool was not NKed.

##CALL GM: If the tracker targets player A, player A targets player B, and player B and player C are driven, would the tracker be notified that player A visited player B or player C?

##GM NOTE: In this case, the tracker would be notified that Player A visited Player B. The driver does not change who a player visits.

So either Bona is Tracker or Mafia knowing Sweet was driven with Dousing or both Bona and Sweet are Mafia (unlikely imo.)

If Bona is Tracker then either Sweet was driven with Dousing or Sweet is scum and Dousing was strongmanned.

I think that's right!

[Chaqa]

Isn't it also likely that Bona and Eden are both mafia and made up this whole elaborate thing to frame Sweet tomorrow?