MAFIA 79: The Price is Right! [GAME THREAD]

[bozotheclown]

@rdr thoughts on the above post?

@chaqa would appreciate your input as well, along with how you're reading Eden's game right now

Why did you solicit other people's responses to Koala's post, but not respond to i t yourself?

Because I know what I think, and there's nothing to respond to there anyway

I also am curious how you are interpreting that post, since you seemed to imply that KoalaAttack and sweetandcool were not correct in assessing your interpretation.

[bozotheclown]

Who's he pocketing?

Also remind me why Chaqa? Is it the "I wasn't dedicated to voting off damo" thing or was there more

I think he could be pocketing me, for one, because the last game we were both town and he tunneled me the whole game and it was hard for me not think he was doing it as mafia. I will have to go back and read his posts to find an example of what I thought could be pocketing.

This is a really weird perspective because I haven’t thought about you much at all this game. I have a mild townread because you tunneling on some stupid shit I said seems like town!Bozo, but otherwise you’re not even in my radar

I don't see the connection between you finding me unrememberable and my perception of Jamie.

[Chaqa]

I think he could be pocketing me, for one, because the last game we were both town and he tunneled me the whole game and it was hard for me not think he was doing it as mafia. I will have to go back and read his posts to find an example of what I thought could be pocketing.

This is a really weird perspective because I haven’t thought about you much at all this game. I have a mild townread because you tunneling on some stupid shit I said seems like town!Bozo, but otherwise you’re not even in my radar

I don't see the connection between you finding me unrememberable and my perception of Jamie.

Oh, I thought you were saying I was pocketing you

[bozotheclown]

Seems hard to believe d1 Jamie is ever scum

When was the last time you ever saw him post more than Bona? And most of that came while the bot was down and most people were on cruise control

He’s been less memorable today for me but I don’t think that matters much. And it could be an indictment of my lack of focus lol.

like one of the last two games on d1 i'm pretty sure

Ok true, last game he tripled you up d1 (lmao). You were traveling on college visits though so pretty significant anomaly.

Also he was the runaway lead poster d1 and...... town.

You are not providing any evidence that Jamie would not be a high poster as mafia, though.

[bozotheclown]

This is a really weird perspective because I haven’t thought about you much at all this game. I have a mild townread because you tunneling on some stupid shit I said seems like town!Bozo, but otherwise you’re not even in my radar

I don't see the connection between you finding me unrememberable and my perception of Jamie.

Oh, I thought you were saying I was pocketing you

OK, that makes more sense. Are you?

[Chaqa]

I don't see the connection between you finding me unrememberable and my perception of Jamie.

Oh, I thought you were saying I was pocketing you

OK, that makes more sense. Are you?

Well no, which is why I was confused by the post

[sweetandcool]

wdym

not to be a dick to y'all but a lot of dousing/s&c and you/koala is tedious to get through

i guess part of it is that i independently TR 3/4 of y'all and haven't made up my mind on koala yet

starting to appreciate why people glazed over when i used to get in arguments

##vote Eden

He isn’t capable of introspection

I just can't bring myself to vote for Eden until I see an actual argument for it.

[Chaqa]

One thing that is keeping me suspicious of Eden is his lack of giant-walls-of-text, but I don't recall super well if he starts this early in the game.

His odd pushing on my goofy mafia heuristic is also strange.

[dargorygel]

Vote Count 2:04
KoalaAttack: (3) Bona, damo, sweet
Chaqa: (3) bozo, Eden, rdr
President Eden: (3) snowy, Jamie, Chaqa
Snowy801: (2) Koala, Dousing

One end vote (damo for Koala)
All have posted and voted

No One is in the lead.

[Dousing]

So your preferences to flip today are Bona, Sweet, or maybe Koala / Eden.

Therefore you're voting Snowy.

Uh-huh.

Yeah I was just changing my vote after I messed it up.

town of Salem is the closest game I’ve played to this and obviously there’s a meta here that I’m trying to understand but you’re gonna have to expect me to be playing sub-optimally in my very first run through

I just popped on the forum in the ten minutes before I had to head to work, I didn’t really think about who to vote for or how it’d read tbh

"I didn't really think about who to vote for"

Let me advise you:

That is one of the most important things you should be thinking about.

Yeah ofc but like I said I literally had work in ten minutes, excuse me for prioritizing my personal life over an online forum

[snowy801]

I am here until EoD

[Dousing]

Yeah I was just changing my vote after I messed it up.

town of Salem is the closest game I’ve played to this and obviously there’s a meta here that I’m trying to understand but you’re gonna have to expect me to be playing sub-optimally in my very first run through

I just popped on the forum in the ten minutes before I had to head to work, I didn’t really think about who to vote for or how it’d read tbh

"I didn't really think about who to vote for"

Let me advise you:

That is one of the most important things you should be thinking about.

Yeah ofc but like I said I literally had work in ten minutes, excuse me for prioritizing my personal life over an online forum

Also I had ten hours before EoD iirc so it’s not like I was throwing the game away

[snowy801]

Why did you solicit other people's responses to Koala's post, but not respond to i t yourself?

Because I know what I think, and there's nothing to respond to there anyway

I also am curious how you are interpreting that post, since you seemed to imply that KoalaAttack and sweetandcool were not correct in assessing your interpretation.

Alright well, (and @jamiet too I guess)

I was primarily interested in rdr's reaction to this because he seems to at the very least moderately town read Koala.

The entire post appears to hinge on two (lies or misunderstandings, as I think bona repeatedly put)
1) He assumes the premise of my scum reading him to hinge on when/if: I mean he's not totally wrong it is an issue of language, but that's just a blatant strawman and
2) He makes a very weird assumption, at least in my eye as Jamiet seemed to disagree, that I was being hypocritical as I used similar language to Bona? It was a hard stretch and I wanted to understand how people felt about the continuation of such bad faith arguments (continuation being an extension of the general theme of bona's case against him)

But alas, I guess we'll never hear from either of them so that's that

Wow it's really been like 4 hours and nobody's moved their vote at all huh

I wonder if I let this game of chicken continue or start making moves now

[rdrivera2005]

Because I know what I think, and there's nothing to respond to there anyway

I also am curious how you are interpreting that post, since you seemed to imply that KoalaAttack and sweetandcool were not correct in assessing your interpretation.

Alright well, (and @jamiet too I guess)

I was primarily interested in rdr's reaction to this because he seems to at the very least moderately town read Koala.

The entire post appears to hinge on two (lies or misunderstandings, as I think bona repeatedly put)
1) He assumes the premise of my scum reading him to hinge on when/if: I mean he's not totally wrong it is an issue of language, but that's just a blatant strawman and
2) He makes a very weird assumption, at least in my eye as Jamiet seemed to disagree, that I was being hypocritical as I used similar language to Bona? It was a hard stretch and I wanted to understand how people felt about the continuation of such bad faith arguments (continuation being an extension of the general theme of bona's case against him)

But alas, I guess we'll never hear from either of them so that's that

Wow it's really been like 4 hours and nobody's moved their vote at all huh

I wonder if I let this game of chicken continue or start making moves now

I really don't understand what you are talking about. Could you explain me as I have 8 years?

[snowy801]

Ok see here: viewtopic.php?p=337350#p337350 (quote truncated as it's monstrously long)

The two parts I mention in my post above

OK my case on Snowy is growing as Snowy is posting but ignoring my repeating questioning...

Because as far as I can tell they have no actual rationale for their hardlock of me as Mafia to share...



This is the best I can find:

When we flip you as Mafia, if I'm still alive, I'll say "boom" just for you.

Speaking of reasons why I actually believe something, I direct people to review this comment

In other words, they hardlock me as Mafia for using a definitive "when" instead of "if" inside a joke banter post with Bona.

First section of my previous comment, wherein Koala makes his professional assumption on why I scum read him. Assumptions are fair, given that I've hardly explained my rationale, but then he turns it into a single issue vote which sets up the strawman.

earliest setup reading mafia player

The best part is – the last one is by Snowy themselves!

So Snowy – you are a Mafia hardlock because you didn't say "if" when you said Bona is the earliest setup reading mafia player – riiiiight? You just stated it as a fact. Clearly, you can only know this from Mafia chat.

Continuation, and this is the "stretch." First, either misunderstanding or willful twisting of an innocuous phrase. Some leniency can be provided as Jamiet apparently also misunderstood this, but as both he and bona pointed out hardly relevant in any sense and a deliberately bad faith argument to extend his premise, which could've been fair in isolation but isn't (also guys, while I appreciate you guys making these rebuttals for me it kind of ruins the point of not giving them anything to work with)

So to you, rdrivera, I wanted to hear your understanding of these growing serious of misunderstandings and possibly willful ignorance, but for whatever reason all of it seems to be just escaping your mere glance which my personal respect for your ability continues to find extremely worrisome. You seem to be very out of it as a whole in this game, and your position on Koala is merely an extension of that

To return to the original point, the reason why this comment caught my eye:

i think i'm pretty clearly cooler as i wasn't born in the previous millennium like a boomer

When we flip you as Mafia, if I'm still alive, I'll say "boom" just for you.

And here's where I requested for my sanity check, and apparently bozo interpreted this line as being somewhat similar to how Koala saw it, as my claiming that because he said "when", I deduced that Koala must know with certainty that bona is scum, which can only happen if Koala is scum and therefore knew this. But this must also mean that bona is scum with Koala.

This is not, in fact, what I read when I saw this line. As some of you may recall from my old rants, the best way to deduce alignment is to not observe player action, but to consider the state of mind from which this action is derived. In this very simplistic form of that concept, we see here that certainty is expressed in a way that instantly rang alarm bells in my head - but I did not understand it as a slip of knowledge. Instead, I perceived it to be him attempting to emulate a state of mind in which he is town, being certain that he has caught scum (bona) and slipping in his expression of that.

In the conversation leading up to this moment, both bona and Koala hammer at each other seemingly convinced that the other is scum. But bona's language is natural, indicative of just him being his usual self having caught scum. Koala's is not.

This is not the only reason why I scum read him, but it is the primary reason. I was hoping that you, rdrivera, could see the build up and the implications that I was attempting to make and both see your reaction to it as well as your understanding to the validity to my theories. But instead what I received was utter apathy on the alignment of Koala, excepting a meek "well I think he's town" response from you.

You can see why I find you, independent of Koala, very concerning.

But I am equally hopeful that I will not have to dirty my hands, and that town will be forced to resolve your question in my absence. We shall again, on this topic, see how the wind blows.

Now tell me, why is Koala town?

[snowy801]

That's the whole point... you're vacillating between "oh my god, how could you E V E R suspect me" and "lol here's my throwaway 'suspects' who happen to be the people on my ass at the moment"

You're not going to write walls like me as town, I get that, but even when you're coasting as town you at least believe what you say and want people to take it seriously. Here you're acting like you want us to take you seriously by getting indignant that you're under suspicion, but then your actual reads and votes are self-aware throwaways. Like the indignance at being suspected is just to deflect and hope the pressure goes away, and you don't really care about the reads... which is one of the many ways you would play as scum.

How you gonna respond to that Chaqa Whaqa?

He’s making some good points tbh I probably should put some more effort in

Not Chaqa and Eden both saying they'll put more effort in and continuing to sleep

[snowy801]

Now what happens if I switch to Koala...

Koala votes Chaqa in self-pres

Chaqa votes back in return

Jamiet and Dousing are left as free agents...

This game has too few moving parts. I guess chicken it is

[Dousing]

I get your point: it's a bit disingenuous of Koala to twist the argument like that.

But I also think you're misrepresenting Koala here: their issue isn't that the quotes you provided is some smoking gun. The problem is that the quotes Koala produced is the ONLY evidence you have to hardlock Koala as scum

A key issue is that you didn't give Koala a lot to work with here.

[Dousing]

I get your point: it's a bit disingenuous of Koala to twist the argument like that.

But I also think you're misrepresenting Koala here: their issue isn't that the quotes you provided is some smoking gun. The problem is that the quotes Koala produced is the ONLY evidence you have to hardlock Koala as scum

A key issue is that you didn't give Koala a lot to work with here.

If that's hard to read it's because I just woke up from a nap

[snowy801]

I get your point: it's a bit disingenuous of Koala to twist the argument like that.

But I also think you're misrepresenting Koala here: their issue isn't that the quotes you provided is some smoking gun. The problem is that the quotes Koala produced is the ONLY evidence you have to hardlock Koala as scum

A key issue is that you didn't give Koala a lot to work with here.

I did that on purpose. The question is then how he reacted based on that lack of information

rdrivera, as an example, seems to scum read me for no particularly stated reason. Do I then make assumptions on why he does so, and berate him for it? I've personally just been telling him to put in some work

What's important is why people do things. Why did Koala make a massive omgus case decrying bona's case on him as being disingenuine, and then proceed to call me scum after. Is there a town player underneath that bluster motivating these posts? What do you think Dousing