MAFIA 79: The Price is Right! [GAME THREAD]

[sweetandcool]

##Vote Sweet&Cool

I'm hesitant to vote a newcomer (he's not a newbie, he's played before), but there is a LOT of steering coming from him and not a lot of thinking things through or getting information.

I don't get Fox's progression on s&c here, I actually have the opposite. s&c started wanting to no kill which is a classic newbie town trap, then elected on a pseudo-random vote once informed of the trap, then gradually developed a read rooted in in-game reasons which grew in confidence throughout the day. that's exactly how newer townies play when they start grasping things.

if s&c is mafia steering things then they had a remarkable personality shift in a short time, because s&c's start was anything but steering a kill

that doesn't make Fox suspicious per se, people can be wrong, but I'm not moved by Fox's later framing of s&c as scum-indicative "confidence + hedging." kind of feels like Fox needed to latch onto a read and landed on s&c

##vote Foxcastle

perfectly ok with Bona wagon though.
Chaqa wagon remains both dumb and reasonable
sweetandcool wagon is bad

Strongly disagree that it's a newbie town trap. When I was newbie scum, I used it, for example. It's an easy way for newbie scum to push (what they think is) a pro-town position without having to risk sticking their neck out on another player.

"Steering" might be too strong. But there's a lot of pointing fingers without a lot of basis for doing so this early in the game.

Also, why do I need a read to latch on to? If I'm scum, I'm can just say the vibe is off or something.

I do agree that me pushing a pro-town position is a point of suspicion against me. Despite being a new player, I am still clever. If I was mafia, I would definitely be coasting D1. Pointing fingers is pretty risky.

[ghug]

Can you clarify how I have communicated as a mafia traitor?

Please refer to my treatise on Post #342.

Yeah, it didn't make much sense.

Why do you think a convoluted and very specific conspiracy theory is more likely to come from scum?

[Foxcastle]

I don't get Fox's progression on s&c here, I actually have the opposite. s&c started wanting to no kill which is a classic newbie town trap, then elected on a pseudo-random vote once informed of the trap, then gradually developed a read rooted in in-game reasons which grew in confidence throughout the day. that's exactly how newer townies play when they start grasping things.

if s&c is mafia steering things then they had a remarkable personality shift in a short time, because s&c's start was anything but steering a kill

that doesn't make Fox suspicious per se, people can be wrong, but I'm not moved by Fox's later framing of s&c as scum-indicative "confidence + hedging." kind of feels like Fox needed to latch onto a read and landed on s&c

##vote Foxcastle

perfectly ok with Bona wagon though.
Chaqa wagon remains both dumb and reasonable
sweetandcool wagon is bad

Strongly disagree that it's a newbie town trap. When I was newbie scum, I used it, for example. It's an easy way for newbie scum to push (what they think is) a pro-town position without having to risk sticking their neck out on another player.

"Steering" might be too strong. But there's a lot of pointing fingers without a lot of basis for doing so this early in the game.

Also, why do I need a read to latch on to? If I'm scum, I'm can just say the vibe is off or something.

I do agree that me pushing a pro-town position is a point of suspicion against me. Despite being a new player, I am still clever. If I was mafia, I would definitely be coasting D1. Pointing fingers is pretty risky.

You're not a new player, though. You're a new player here.

I'm probably tunneling by now, because all I can see in this post is:
* Twisting my words to throw shade on me (though, I am assuming a lot of sarcasm in that first sentence, which is maybe unfair)
* Trying to deflect suspicion by claiming to be a newbie
* No small amount of hypocrisy in claiming that mafia have an incentive to coast and avoid pointing fingers while voting me for doing the opposite of that

[Foxcastle]

Please refer to my treatise on Post #342.

Yeah, it didn't make much sense.

Why do you think a convoluted and very specific conspiracy theory is more likely to come from scum?

Convoluted and specific (lots of "evidence"!) makes him look busy and productive, but at the same time, it's a theory that's never really going to be taken seriously or come back to bite him. It helps create an impression for other players that he's solving.

[Foxcastle]

Yeah, it didn't make much sense.

Why do you think a convoluted and very specific conspiracy theory is more likely to come from scum?

Convoluted and specific (lots of "evidence"!) makes him look busy and productive, but at the same time, it's a theory that's never really going to be taken seriously or come back to bite him. It helps create an impression for other players that he's solving.

But again, I'm tunneling here, so I'm no inclined to see the worst in anything Sweet does.

[sweetandcool]

No sarcasm. I like to throw in emojis and make it pretty clear when I'm sarcastic.

I was trying to agree with a point you made without having to type your statement out in full. If you feel my summary in my first line was inaccurate and a twist of your words then I apologize, that was not my intention.

I find it interesting that you keep harping on my status as a newbie. If your definition of new is absolutely never playing a game of Mafia, then you are correct that I am not new. Am I experienced? Certainly not. I've played a few games on BGA, but as the new player, I was frequently voted off D1.

[ghug]

Yeah, it didn't make much sense.

Why do you think a convoluted and very specific conspiracy theory is more likely to come from scum?

Convoluted and specific (lots of "evidence"!) makes him look busy and productive, but at the same time, it's a theory that's never really going to be taken seriously or come back to bite him. It helps create an impression for other players that he's solving.

It seems like at least a couple people like it.

[ghug]

I don't think Fox is scum, but if he is, the "look how tunnely I am" is the smoking gun.

[Foxcastle]

No sarcasm. I like to throw in emojis and make it pretty clear when I'm sarcastic.

I was trying to agree with a point you made without having to type your statement out in full. If you feel my summary in my first line was inaccurate and a twist of your words then I apologize, that was not my intention.

I find it interesting that you keep harping on my status as a newbie. If your definition of new is absolutely never playing a game of Mafia, then you are correct that I am not new. Am I experienced? Certainly not. I've played a few games on BGA, but as the new player, I was frequently voted off D1.

Misreading you is on me, then.

Being new here but not new to the game is what makes you dangerous.

And I'm hardly alone in noting your newness. Chaqa and Eden have both brought it up (Chaqa declining to vote for you because it would be cliche, Eden asserting that the no-kill position is town indicative from new players), and that's just two that I can think of off the top of my head without searching.

[sweetandcool]

No sarcasm. I like to throw in emojis and make it pretty clear when I'm sarcastic.

I was trying to agree with a point you made without having to type your statement out in full. If you feel my summary in my first line was inaccurate and a twist of your words then I apologize, that was not my intention.

I find it interesting that you keep harping on my status as a newbie. If your definition of new is absolutely never playing a game of Mafia, then you are correct that I am not new. Am I experienced? Certainly not. I've played a few games on BGA, but as the new player, I was frequently voted off D1.

Misreading you is on me, then.

Being new here but not new to the game is what makes you dangerous.

And I'm hardly alone in noting your newness. Chaqa and Eden have both brought it up (Chaqa declining to vote for you because it would be cliche, Eden asserting that the no-kill position is town indicative from new players), and that's just two that I can think of off the top of my head without searching.

You are correct. Newness shouldn't be a defense, yet as you said Chaqa and Eden both are giving me some favour for being new (I think those are the only two, but it's possible someone else has too).

Of course, it's hard to get to know a new player if you vote them off D1. That is what D2 and beyond are for :D

[Foxcastle]

Why do you think a convoluted and very specific conspiracy theory is more likely to come from scum?

Convoluted and specific (lots of "evidence"!) makes him look busy and productive, but at the same time, it's a theory that's never really going to be taken seriously or come back to bite him. It helps create an impression for other players that he's solving.

It seems like at least a couple people like it.

Are these the same people who vote town out on D1 game after game after game? (I.e., any of us)

[ghug]

Convoluted and specific (lots of "evidence"!) makes him look busy and productive, but at the same time, it's a theory that's never really going to be taken seriously or come back to bite him. It helps create an impression for other players that he's solving.

It seems like at least a couple people like it.

Are these the same people who vote town out on D1 game after game after game? (I.e., any of us)

I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm saying it doesn't fit the facts to claim it's never going to be taken seriously.

[ghug]

I actually feel pretty good about a Bona kill. He's been totally immemorable.

[Foxcastle]

It seems like at least a couple people like it.

Are these the same people who vote town out on D1 game after game after game? (I.e., any of us)

I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm saying it doesn't fit the facts to claim it's never going to be taken seriously.

To rephrase: it's never going to have serious implications for the game. But then, you never really know what will or won't, do you, so that's not really a very good claim to make, so I'll go ahead and retract it.

The main point I'm trying to make, though, is that it's a low-risk way to make it look like he's solving.

[worcej]

Another VC:
Foxcastle (4) snowy801, rdrivera2005, sweetandcool, President Eden
Chaqa (3) Chaqa, Jamiet99uk, bozotheclown
sweetandcool (2) Bonatogether, Foxcastle
Bonatogether (2) damo666, ghug
KoalaAttack (1) Dousing
Jamiet99uk (1) KoalaAttack

Currently Foxcastle is set to not win any fabulous prizes. ~2 hours left.

[sweetandcool]

Are these the same people who vote town out on D1 game after game after game? (I.e., any of us)

I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm saying it doesn't fit the facts to claim it's never going to be taken seriously.

To rephrase: it's never going to have serious implications for the game. But then, you never really know what will or won't, do you, so that's not really a very good claim to make, so I'll go ahead and retract it.

The main point I'm trying to make, though, is that it's a low-risk way to make it look like he's solving.

I would argue it's more of a high-risk play, since it gives you ammo to make the argument you are making.

I could have easily not gotten involved since Jamiet immediately jumped on you and was playing devil's advocate. If I were Mafia, I would be pleased to see public opinion going against you, and I wouldn't even need to get involved.

[worcej]

GM Note:
My boss dropped a surprise meeting that will run from 1:30 PM to 2:00 PM (phase change), with the potential to run over depending on whatever the content of the meeting is. My co-GM is also incredibly busy and not available to provide late VC's or process the phase.

Please have patience around the phase change and note that when it strikes 2:00 PM PST, or Los Angeles to make it easier, on https://time.is/ that the phase is over and I will be on ASAP to finish out the phase change.

[Foxcastle]

I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm saying it doesn't fit the facts to claim it's never going to be taken seriously.

To rephrase: it's never going to have serious implications for the game. But then, you never really know what will or won't, do you, so that's not really a very good claim to make, so I'll go ahead and retract it.

The main point I'm trying to make, though, is that it's a low-risk way to make it look like he's solving.

I would argue it's more of a high-risk play, since it gives you ammo to make the argument you are making.

I could have easily not gotten involved since Jamiet immediately jumped on you and was playing devil's advocate. If I were Mafia, I would be pleased to see public opinion going against you, and I wouldn't even need to get involved.

I could easily have coasted myself, but here I am attracting all kinds of attention. It would be a pretty stupid unforced error from an experienced player who's won his fare share of games as mafia, is that what I do as scum?

Actually, don't answer that.

We are really going around and around here, and it's taking up a lot of the thread and we should stop so that everyone else can talk. I'm going to look at other players in case I need to give my D1 impressions before I go out, I encourage you to do the same and engage with other people.

[ghug]

Are these the same people who vote town out on D1 game after game after game? (I.e., any of us)

I'm not saying it's accurate, I'm saying it doesn't fit the facts to claim it's never going to be taken seriously.

To rephrase: it's never going to have serious implications for the game. But then, you never really know what will or won't, do you, so that's not really a very good claim to make, so I'll go ahead and retract it.

The main point I'm trying to make, though, is that it's a low-risk way to make it look like he's solving.

Where I'm trying to lead you is that I think an overspecific theory like that is more likely to come from excited new town. It's very brainbomby, who's basically excited new town every time he's town.

[KoalaAttack]

OMG the magic of the Peterbot is back!

Hooray thank you Peter! What are those elder god people who gave Gandalf their powers called again? Google tells me Valar. Anywho you are one of those, a Valar!


With my newly-resurrected Wizardry powers, I shall

##VOTE sweetandcool


because this is a confession of knowing how to play Mafia coupled with alleged incredulity of "why are people fixated on my supposed newness?":

I find it interesting that you keep harping on my status as a newbie. If your definition of new is absolutely never playing a game of Mafia, then you are correct that I am not new. Am I experienced? Certainly not. I've played a few games on BGA, but as the new player, I was frequently voted off D1.

which would be all fine and well, except for these:


(1) sweetandcool from the Sign Up thread:

What is "sus"? Did you mean "SOS"?

And will there be a new thread tomorrow for chat? Just want to make sure I'm not missing a Discord, a QT, or something else.


(2)

Howdy all! So are we just waiting for somebody to die? Is it the day right now? What type of town do we live in? A nice country village, big city, campground, etc? I imagine if we are dealing with some mafia goons then we are probably in the big city.

(3)

What's a scumslip? Are you saying it is a faux pas to say "mafia goons"?

##vote sweetandcool

don't worry about it man

I really don't know the slang; this is my first time playing with y'all. It's frustrating not understanding what you are saying.

So to summarize:

- sweetandcool played Mafia before
- sweetandcool seems like a very smart and capable person given the general language & logic of their posts
- sweetandcool is clearly willing to pun in the effort to post so many responses
- I am sure sweetandcool is familiar with Google to find the MafiaScum website (which I successfully did back during my first game, for instance)

- this leads me to conclude that sweetandcool is intentionally singing the song "oh I'm so new, I really have no clue"
- seems like a familiar strategy...
- oh wait, that's exactly what MafiaKoala did that one game rdrivera referred to!

- and then is it really surprising folks fixate on your supposed newness after all of the above you posted?
- hmmm....

Suspicious!

PS: I would have not voted for a genuinely new player on D1 regardless (paying forward the karma and all that) – but I don't feel that someone merely new to this site but not the game warrants similar protections, sorry mate!