M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[bozotheclown]

That is actually the primary one on my mind right now. Rdr Worcej makes sense to me too, is that one of your pairs?

After reading how the end of D2 went, I think these are good possibilities. Neon would say rdrivera/worcej or KoalaAttack/worcej are more likely. I would go with rdrivera/worcej right now.

Neon? Like the princess one?

yes

[Fluminator]

I have never played with Neon so I don't get the reference but that's okay, I trust it's a good one

[bozotheclown]

Mid-drive to Dryden, ON atm and unsure how much longer I will have reception.

I town Jamie atm. His vibe is definitely about trying to solve and contribute to the game.
I believe Koala is town but his voting mechanic does not lock him into it.
I think Kak is town with some of his posts about setup, but this could be easy to fake too.
I don’t feel like Flum, ghug, damo, TFB, or Bona have done anything to give me an alignment read.
Bozo hasn’t actually done anything really yet.
HB’s anti-vibe list rubs me the wrong way, but not enough to really make me scum him.
Rdr seemed off to me initially. He’s the most negative opinion I have at this point, so putting a ##vote rdr in to ensure I meet game requirements.

No, my scum pool is currently bozo/damo/rdr

##vote damo

I don’t like damo’s rdr vote and lack of content outside of the Koala stuff as I mentioned.

It is not clear from this why worcej would not like damo’s vote for rdrivera.

Because damo provided no context for it at the time and it felt off-putting.

Well not much of a surprise NK.

I think the scumpair are within {Bona, bozo, Koala, rdr , worcej} but not specifically {bozo, worcej}.

If any of my assumed town have a strong argument why one or more of my scumpool can be moved to townpool please shout.

I don't have any particular scumread and statistically I ought to vote between Bona rdr and Koala. Having said I'll move off K it's a toss up. Let's try ##vote rdr

Why don't you consider this context? Since you were suspecting rdrivera and voted for him D1, why didn't you take the opportunity to make rdrivera a wagon regardless of your opinion of damo's vote?

[bozotheclown]

Anyway, I need to cast a vote.

I thought the Bozo tunnel might be scum Bozo, but he improved today.
Só I am not sure anymore.

I think Worcej including TFB on his reads is lazy (or drunk) Worcej but not sure if this is scum Worcej. His defense of himself looks more town angry then scum catched on a scumslip.

I will ##vote Bona because it ties the voting and the voting is pretty still right now.

Apparently damo isn't a consensus...

##vote bozo

I town Jamie hard and have a town-lean on bona far more than I do bozo.

rdrivera and worcej placing their final D2 votes on opposite town wagons for less than compelling reasons is consistent with them being mafia.

Again, sure - let’s fit every action I do into a narrative that you want.

I was clear about not wanting bona to be killed. I was clear about suspecting you.

My theory is that you and rdrivera are mafia primarily by POE, so I was looking for anything that would indicate this theory is incorrect. My point in this post is that your D2 voting does not disprove my theory.

[bozotheclown]

I really can't disagree with the read of me. Yesterday's EOD does look absolutely terrible on me. Indefensible, really. EOD I should just refresh this page instead of relying on the bot when I'm on my phone.

It isn’t the worst thing ever, it just sucked from my perspective because I really didn’t think Bona was town and there was only Jamie, Bona, myself, and you here - so you effectively forced a no kill or bona.

Pick your boot straps up and brush off the dust.

I think a mis-kill was inevitable, and HB's EOD provided a lot of useful information.

[worcej]

rdrivera and worcej placing their final D2 votes on opposite town wagons for less than compelling reasons is consistent with them being mafia.

Bozo, worcej's final D2 vote was on Hamilton Brian, not you.

You're mistaken to describe that as his "final D2 vote" unless you are telling us that you know for certain that HB is town.

Yes, saying that was worcej's final vote was not accurate. However, worcej town reading Bonatogether and voting for HB at EOD was still the opposite position from rdrivera.

Rdr wasn’t here for EOD to move his vote or contribute.

[bozotheclown]

I have never played with Neon so I don't get the reference but that's okay, I trust it's a good one

You were both in the last game, although not at the same time, but I thought you might have followed the game enough to understand the reference.

[worcej]

I really can't disagree with the read of me. Yesterday's EOD does look absolutely terrible on me. Indefensible, really. EOD I should just refresh this page instead of relying on the bot when I'm on my phone.

It isn’t the worst thing ever, it just sucked from my perspective because I really didn’t think Bona was town and there was only Jamie, Bona, myself, and you here - so you effectively forced a no kill or bona.

Pick your boot straps up and brush off the dust.

I think a mis-kill was inevitable, and HB's EOD provided a lot of useful information.

But that isn’t what I said - it was a no kill or Bona

[worcej]

It is not clear from this why worcej would not like damo’s vote for rdrivera.

Because damo provided no context for it at the time and it felt off-putting.

Well not much of a surprise NK.

I think the scumpair are within {Bona, bozo, Koala, rdr , worcej} but not specifically {bozo, worcej}.

If any of my assumed town have a strong argument why one or more of my scumpool can be moved to townpool please shout.

I don't have any particular scumread and statistically I ought to vote between Bona rdr and Koala. Having said I'll move off K it's a toss up. Let's try ##vote rdr

Why don't you consider this context? Since you were suspecting rdrivera and voted for him D1, why didn't you take the opportunity to make rdrivera a wagon regardless of your opinion of damo's vote?

That post isn’t context in my opinion - it is pretty poor reasoning and comes off as a dart throw versus establishing consensus and participating in the game.

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, worcej's final D2 vote was on Hamilton Brian, not you.

You're mistaken to describe that as his "final D2 vote" unless you are telling us that you know for certain that HB is town.

Yes, saying that was worcej's final vote was not accurate. However, worcej town reading Bonatogether and voting for HB at EOD was still the opposite position from rdrivera.

Rdr wasn’t here for EOD to move his vote or contribute.

rdrivera's last D2 post was 43 minutes before EOD, when Bonatogether and I were the top wagons. At that point, you and rdrivera were on different wagons.

[worcej]

I have never played with Neon so I don't get the reference but that's okay, I trust it's a good one

You were both in the last game, although not at the same time, but I thought you might have followed the game enough to understand the reference.

I GM’ed the game and don’t get the reference you’re making here

[worcej]

Yes, saying that was worcej's final vote was not accurate. However, worcej town reading Bonatogether and voting for HB at EOD was still the opposite position from rdrivera.

Rdr wasn’t here for EOD to move his vote or contribute.

rdrivera's last D2 post was 43 minutes before EOD, when Bonatogether and I were the top wagons. At that point, you and rdrivera were on different wagons.

Both your statement and my statement can be true here. I don’t see why that matters because I was here and was still participating.

Bona died because HB made a tie and no one was either going to break it because of either not being here or being fine with his death.

[bozotheclown]

It isn’t the worst thing ever, it just sucked from my perspective because I really didn’t think Bona was town and there was only Jamie, Bona, myself, and you here - so you effectively forced a no kill or bona.

Pick your boot straps up and brush off the dust.

I think a mis-kill was inevitable, and HB's EOD provided a lot of useful information.

But that isn’t what I said - it was a no kill or Bona

The only other option was mis-kill of me, which would not have been significantly better.

[bozotheclown]

I have never played with Neon so I don't get the reference but that's okay, I trust it's a good one

You were both in the last game, although not at the same time, but I thought you might have followed the game enough to understand the reference.

I GM’ed the game and don’t get the reference you’re making here

Like if I'm mafia I always put no more than 2 on a run away town led wagon like BunnyGo

And I have my teammates sit outside the wagon but never stacked and I avoid killing off wagon unless I need to for PR.

It's text book and this wolf team is following it to the T.

I see. I don't know, it would seem that Mafia teams following a standard playbook kind of goes counter to the whole idea of mis-leading the rest – especially when you are playing against clearly experienced folks on the other side though, no?

No. If mafia didn't do mafia things town would never win. Wolfs do wolfy things and try to mask it as town. You just have to play the probabilities and the probability I'm best at is wagon structure and emotional intent.

[bozotheclown]

Rdr wasn’t here for EOD to move his vote or contribute.

rdrivera's last D2 post was 43 minutes before EOD, when Bonatogether and I were the top wagons. At that point, you and rdrivera were on different wagons.

Both your statement and my statement can be true here. I don’t see why that matters because I was here and was still participating.

Bona died because HB made a tie and no one was either going to break it because of either not being here or being fine with his death.

I don't remember you town reading Bonatogether before EOD, why were you confident enough that Bonatogether was town that HB "forcing" a DK of Bonatogether looked bad at that time?

[Jamiet99uk]

After reading how the end of D2 went, I think these are good possibilities. Neon would say rdrivera/worcej or KoalaAttack/worcej are more likely. I would go with rdrivera/worcej right now.

What a weird post.

Why are you speculating about what PrincessNeon would think?

Neon is not in this game.

Why bring up a person who is not in the game, speculate about what their reads would be if they were playing, and then insert this fictional read from a non-player into your own commentary?

It was a reference that I think those who are interested in what I am saying will understand.

I am interested in what you are saying, clearly, because I am asking you about it and for some reason you didn't give a clear answer.

I do not understand, which is why I am asking you. Your unwillingness to answer is noted.

[worcej]

rdrivera's last D2 post was 43 minutes before EOD, when Bonatogether and I were the top wagons. At that point, you and rdrivera were on different wagons.

Both your statement and my statement can be true here. I don’t see why that matters because I was here and was still participating.

Bona died because HB made a tie and no one was either going to break it because of either not being here or being fine with his death.

I don't remember you town reading Bonatogether before EOD, why were you confident enough that Bonatogether was town that HB "forcing" a DK of Bonatogether looked bad at that time?

You have quoted a post where I said I did not want to kill Bona.

[Jamiet99uk]

You're mistaken to describe that as his "final D2 vote" unless you are telling us that you know for certain that HB is town.

This sentence is clumsy and I should re-phrase it. What I mean is, you (TheBozo) are mistaken to say that you know Worcej's "final D2 vote" was on town, unless you're telling us that you know HB's alignment.

TheBozo, the last time you made this mistake, involving my vote, it was because you were looking at the Bot whilst forgetting the context in which the vote was placed.

This time, can you explain what led to your error? The bot very clearly shows that Worcej's last vote in D2 was for Hamilton Brian. Moreover, the GM's end of day summary also clearly shows Worcej's vote being on HB when day ended. Plus, if you reviewed the events of EoD2, you couldn't fail to notice Worcej shouting at HB for tying the vote, and trying to get a flash-wagon on HB in motion.

It appears that sometimes you only notice votes when they involve you. You engaged in misleading questioning of me yesterday because my vote moved off my joke "the" vote, and onto you. Now in considering EoD2 you notice Worcej voting for you, but you don't notice him moving off you onto HB.

Are you selectively just looking for people voting you and seeking to shade them?

no

I assume this flippant response is merely an answer to my last sentence.

Could you address the question in bold?

How come you are super focused on certain details, and yet at the same time you are making glaring errors like this one?

[Jamiet99uk]

Scum to Town, updated:

bozotheclown
rdrivera2005
​Hamilton Brian
damo666
KoalaAttack
worcej
Flumin​ator
Jamiet99uk

Rdrivera has moved up because:

(a) He has been super inactive and his D2 was particularly egregious in this regard. I will re-read if I have time before EoN but I cannot call to mind a single thing he has done which would incline me to townread him.

(b) Rdrivera is dangerous as scum and letting him coast quietly into the endgame would be a serious problem if he is indeed scum.

(c) He just feels off.

Bozo is still at the top of my list after the latest example of being wrong about who Worcej was even voting for at EoD, which, as I said, strikes me as Bozo lazily looking for his own name rather than actually paying attention to everything that is going on. This strikes me as a scum!Bozo meta based on recent experiences.

Hamilton Brian has to be in contention if Bozo is scum, for obvious reasons.

Flum and Worcej scream town to me now and if I'm wrong about either, I'm sorry.

What makes you think worcej is likely to be town, other than his "strong" town read of you?

It has nothing to do with his read on me. He seems to be putting in a reasonable amount of effort to find scum and his thought-processes seem clear to me, which is a lot more than I can say for Damo or Rdrivera or, for that matter, yourself, since you are getting yourself confused about pretty basic things such as, in the present example, who Worcej was voting for at EoD2.

[worcej]

rdrivera's last D2 post was 43 minutes before EOD, when Bonatogether and I were the top wagons. At that point, you and rdrivera were on different wagons.

Both your statement and my statement can be true here. I don’t see why that matters because I was here and was still participating.

Bona died because HB made a tie and no one was either going to break it because of either not being here or being fine with his death.

I don't remember you town reading Bonatogether before EOD, why were you confident enough that Bonatogether was town that HB "forcing" a DK of Bonatogether looked bad at that time?

This is also a poor way to describe my thinking about EOD. I felt more likely that you are scum and my vote was on you because of that.

HB’s move forced me out of what I felt confident about and into a realm of “pick the lesser evil” because of his move alone and not because I was outnumbered via voting. I felt that my ability to impact the situation was removed.

Does that make sense to you? Not trying to be aggressive here, just trying to explain my thoughts.