M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[bozotheclown]

Rdr, I'm in the same grounds as you in town reading Kak and scum reading TFB so I'm not judging you, but on paper it is still scummy in that's all you've done so can you be more significant and catch some scum or something so I can rule you out.

Again we don't actually have that many miskilled available

Why would a mafia teammate town read Kakarroto early D1?

[bozotheclown]

Based on everyone's interaction with Kakarroto, I would say Bonatogether, damo, Fluminator, HB, Jamiet, KoalaAttack, and rdrivera seem more likely to be town (compared to not considering their interaction with Kakarroto). However, that only leaves ghug, worcej, and myself.

[KoalaAttack]

Someone remind me why we think Koala has a gun?

@Ghug: Why was this your immediate reaction to a shot being fired?

Because I wanted to vote for koala but I didn't want to vote for him if there was a compelling reason to think he'd just shot Kak. I was inclined to believe there wasn't, since he appeared to not be present.

OK, yeah, so maybe this is tunneling, but I just finished a re-read with my Eden hat on, and I'm really stuck on this.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but GMs process PMs when they get around to them, assuming they have a life outside GM-ing. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but all all experienced players should be well aware for this.

So applying the motivation filter from the Mafia Guide again:

I just don't see an experienced Townie ghug making this mistake while genuinely trying to solve in a Closed Setup. I mean, I could make this mistake, sure. But I got the impression during the last game a few people thing ghug is one of the better players on here.

But I can definitely see a Mafia ghug playing fast & loose with the follow-up questions from Jamiet (nice question BTW) and not thinking this through as carefuly as a Townie ghug actually trying to solve would.

So I think it's a slip. I would love to hear some opinions on this from non-ghugs.

[rdrivera2005]

Well, I was wrong about Kak and TFB. Sorry TFB.

Good job Vig, but I still think shooting D1 is a poor choice.

Does this imply you believe there is another Vig so it's useful to mention the last bit?

Very interesting to put the red part through the Town/Mafia motivations filter.

Hey, The Guide Works! No wonder I have been The President since the times of the Garden of Eden. Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the awesomest of all?

Koala, why are you asking stupid questions for the sake of asking?

If there are another Vig he can't obviously shoot D1 can't he?

Anyway I don't think there is another Vig, it was just a comment because over a sucess like this shot people make bad moves like last game when it probably costed us the game.

[rdrivera2005]

Rdr, I'm in the same grounds as you in town reading Kak and scum reading TFB so I'm not judging you, but on paper it is still scummy in that's all you've done so can you be more significant and catch some scum or something so I can rule you out.

Again we don't actually have that many miskilled available

Agree, I can see why I am on the suspects list. I wasn't around for the last part of the day but after reading the thread I doubt I would have changed my mind.

We probably have 2 miskills left (considering 2 Mafia left). Not that bad assuming we have some PRs and some obvious town.

[Jamiet99uk]

Sure: I declared I'd suicide if folks didn't chose the Impersonation Target. I postulate that folks who pushed me to suicide are Mafia angling for an easy/safe MK. Kak & Jamiet were the 2 people early on who were pushing my wagon for attempting to Impersonate.

If you still can't follow (and are not Mafia pretending) I can't help you :)

My goodness you are self-obsessed. You must spend 12 hours in front of the mirror every day.

I know I even wrote a Mafia Guide and I was told every time someone reads it my ego grows!

Tell me Jamiet, to apply your own rubric – how was this post you just made about 12 hours in front of the mirror helpful for the Town?

The Mafia motivation would be to keep riding the wave of folk's annoyance with Impersonation to MK me. But I am curious, what Town motivations did you have for it?

I was just expressing annoyance at your approach. Never mind.

[damo666]

@Koala

Did you post in Master thread by mistake?

I think ghug was suggesting there is a delay or condition mechanism wtt vigshot.

[damo666]

Based on everyone's interaction with Kakarroto, I would say Bonatogether, damo, Fluminator, HB, Jamiet, KoalaAttack, and rdrivera seem more likely to be town (compared to not considering their interaction with Kakarroto). However, that only leaves ghug, worcej, and myself.

I think this rules out Bozoghug and Bozoworcej

[damo666]

Koala. I vote C

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like there are players being more protective of their opinions than Koala here…

As usual, I am being as open as I possibly can.

I put it to you that Bozo is the opposite and Ghug is little better. Both have avoided my questions.

I am happy to discuss any issues that are on your mind, Worcej.

I didn't avoid shit, Jamie.

Well at the time I made that statement, I'd been clearly asking you something and you hadn't answered it, and I had to remind / chase you for an answer.

You have answered now, thanks.

[damo666]

Too much ice

[Jamiet99uk]

No. I am summarising what I genuinely believe Bozo to have said about me.

If you are better at interpreting Bozo's words and actions than you think I am, please could you explain why you think he is voting for me?

@Ghug:

Why did you ignore this question?

Can you address it now please??

He thought our interaction was weird and wanted to apply pressure to it to see what would happen.

So he didn't have any scumreads?

He voted me because he thought my interaction with you was weird, even though he also said he didn't necessarily think I was Mafia aligned.

He kept his vote on me at EoD and nearly got me killed.

What's your reflection on those events, now?

[damo666]

Jamiet, why did your activity drop so much at eod after being one of the most active posters? What was going on for you then?

I was at the Colpitts Inn pub quiz and could only check in during the breaks to avoid it looking like I was cheating at the quiz.

I can confirm there is said pub.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm wanting to [redacted] right out of here.

Koala, stop being so opaque.

Town, fucking get ti otgether. Death of Kak was a bonus, not an invitation to sit on laurels.

This is unusually emotional from Hamilton Brian.

I like it.

[Jamiet99uk]

Koala, stop being so opaque.

I am happy to. How am I being opaque? I am 100% transparent about what I'm doing.

I claim the PR of the Townue Heel. I will troll and rile up the Mafia, and get them to engage. More engagement == mode data for the rest of us to analyze. Just like the mystery AwesomeNinja who shot Kak (way to go!).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(pro ... wrestling)

Ooh. Are you a wrestling fan?

[Jamiet99uk]

What about Kak's setup discussions made you not want to vote for him?

I didn't expect scum Kak to openly speculate about setup and Mafia roles. Usually scum not engage in this type of speculation to avoid saying something that can be either a scumslip or give info to town when they flip. Looking at Kak posts I am guessing we have 3 scum (2 now) and no strong powers.

Scum mech talk all the time.

Ghug is right. As scum, it's useful to talk about mechanics because you don't need to lie about them, in principle. Talking about mechanics is an opportunity to fill the thread with content and look like you're participating, without mentioning your team-mates, falsifying reads, etcetera.

[Jamiet99uk]

Bozo, why were you so interested in pushing the ghug/jamiet countervotes specifically when there were many other wagons at the time? Were the other ones not that compelling to you?

I think KoalaAttack and TFB were the only other wagons with more than 1 vote, and I was not particularly interested in voting for either of them.

There was a Bozo wagon that got up to 3 votes too

[Jamiet99uk]

I probably got lucky and Jamiet is mafia, I don't think he would try to get me DKed for voting for him as town.

Bozo, I am very sick of your shit already.

As EoD approached I repeatedly engaged with your suspicions of me. Your response was to ignore me completely.

If you actually suspect me and are not totally full of shit, as you appear to be, please fucking engage with me.

I'm not asking very much but you are behaving with a scum mindset.

I did not suspect you until you pushed to DK the one player voting for you in the last hour of D1. This post was the second reason to suspect you.

Thank you for confirming that you did not scumread or suspect me when you voted for me.

I would like the record to show that Bozo has admitted this.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: Why was this your immediate reaction to a shot being fired?

Because I wanted to vote for koala but I didn't want to vote for him if there was a compelling reason to think he'd just shot Kak. I was inclined to believe there wasn't, since he appeared to not be present.

OK, yeah, so maybe this is tunneling, but I just finished a re-read with my Eden hat on, and I'm really stuck on this.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but GMs process PMs when they get around to them, assuming they have a life outside GM-ing. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but all all experienced players should be well aware for this.

So applying the motivation filter from the Mafia Guide again:

I just don't see an experienced Townie ghug making this mistake while genuinely trying to solve in a Closed Setup. I mean, I could make this mistake, sure. But I got the impression during the last game a few people thing ghug is one of the better players on here.

But I can definitely see a Mafia ghug playing fast & loose with the follow-up questions from Jamiet (nice question BTW) and not thinking this through as carefuly as a Townie ghug actually trying to solve would.

So I think it's a slip. I would love to hear some opinions on this from non-ghugs.

I don't think it's necessarily a slip.

Perhaps Ghug made a rather simplistic assumption and did not consider the possibility of there being a significant delay in processing the shot (which is possible).

But why would that be a scumslip?

Why would Scum Ghug be more likely to fail to consider this nuance than Town Ghug?

Why do you think Mafia Ghug would play "fast and loose" whilst Town Ghug would be more careful and methodical?

[Fluminator]

It's called a ghugslip