MAFIA 78: Random Facts [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[TheFlyingBoat]

Can someone tell me what lfischl's bussing looks like as mafia? I feel like the only mafia game I recall ever looking at him play was one where he self-destructed D1 and tied himself to a bunch of his team resulting in mafia conceding early.

Based on the most recent game it didn't seem like he bussed at all based on a quick perusal (correct me if I am wrong) and in the game before that it seemed like ones he was more forced into (bus damo to save self), not something where he puts a vote to leaves a hanging vote, especially not when Damo was there.

As bad as lfischl looks, we shouldn't rule out a Chaqa/Koala team. I don't think BK is bad after doing more VCA. Will need to think more on it.

What tickles my scumdar there is how they behaved especially Day 1, with Koala generating non-scummy reasons to vote for Chaqa while laying out the course to abandon the vote. He has PE and Chaqa at the top of his scum lists for reasons he knows no one will ever latch onto as a reason to vote either.

In Case of Dying Declaration Suspects List update


Koala's Suspects List 4.0:

(1) Chaqa – having been reading Damo-related things in ISO, I just don't see anything to redeem my Suspicions on Chaqa. Claims Mafia, repeatedly. Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. Posts Suspect Lists including zero justifications. Did say Damo was a good info flip late in the day, but Damo being Town kind of negates that.

(2) President Eden – See my first-ever-VCA. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. If there is a Helpful Friendly Neighborhood Mafia type on the evil mastermind team, President Eden fits the bill. It was close between Chaqa and PE, but I'm a tad hesitant because my Suspicion of President Eden is similar to that of Balki last game, which was incorrect.

For reference here is one of the reads where it looks the most obvious to me in terms of maybe being scum theater.

Gonna re-read these two in a bit more deeply to see if I am right or going way too galaxy brained.

[KoalaAttack]

This is very interesting. I wish you said KoalaAttack and Bono or BK3K, because I have a lot of suspicions of Chaqa – but Chaqa is the one other person who 100% knows this to not be true.

I guess my Suspicion of Chaqa notwithstanding... Hi Chaqa, do you think this is just a Townie reaching for straws or Mafia trying to counter-accuse?


For everyone else:

As bad as lfischl looks, we shouldn't rule out a Chaqa/Koala team. I don't think BK is bad after doing more VCA. Will need to think more on it.

What tickles my scumdar there is how they behaved especially Day 1, with Koala generating non-scummy reasons to vote for Chaqa while laying out the course to abandon the vote. He has PE and Chaqa at the top of his scum lists for reasons he knows no one will ever latch onto as a reason to vote either.

In Case of Dying Declaration Suspects List update
Koala's Suspects List 4.0:

(1) Chaqa – having been reading Damo-related things in ISO, I just don't see anything to redeem my Suspicions on Chaqa. Claims Mafia, repeatedly. Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. Posts Suspect Lists including zero justifications. Did say Damo was a good info flip late in the day, but Damo being Town kind of negates that.

(2) President Eden – See my first-ever-VCA. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. If there is a Helpful Friendly Neighborhood Mafia type on the evil mastermind team, President Eden fits the bill. It was close between Chaqa and PE, but I'm a tad hesitant because my Suspicion of President Eden is similar to that of Balki last game, which was incorrect.

For reference here is one of the reads where it looks the most obvious to me in terms of maybe being scum theater.

Gonna re-read these two in a bit more deeply to see if I am right or going way too galaxy brained.

Claims Mafia, repeatedly.

[*]Chaqa - Gets too much joy out of joking to be scum. could be reaching for ragging rights if he lays it out on the table and still wins?

Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly.

lfischl is locktown

Who else is locktown?

since it was just that easy to locktown lfischl off one post I was thinking maybe you could work some more of that big bad chaqa voodoo magic and conjure up a few more for us

See my first-ever-VCA.

Two things that jumped out at me both have to do with President Eden:

(1) ghu really likes to change the vote right after Pre changes the vote earlier in the day – is this normal or Suspicious?

(2) since a lot of folks have been talking about ghug pushing Bona – it was Pre vote that put Bona at 6 votes first, and then ghu decided to back off Bona and go to Damo instead – not sure what to make of this?

koala's post hits hard

I am not going to keep going, too much work – but you get the idea. The statement by TFB in red is demonstrably false. I stand by every single one of those highlighted reasons to suspect Chaqa (we'll see sooner or later) and President Eden (come on, give me at least some credit for my first-ever VCA actually helping to catch a Mafia). And above are examples of other people "latching on" to them.

So the question is – did TFB really not see all these other folks "latching on" to same things about Chaqa or President Eden? I mean, BK3K has been pretty blunt about expressing the Chaqa-trolling suspicions for instance. So, like, if this is a Mafia frame attempt, why is it so bad? Does it mean it's an honest mistake?

[KoalaAttack]

@Koala: because I thought Bunny was the CWV.

Making mafia kill him (when I thought that) or narrowing our PoE was a good play.

Thanks – this makes total sense, I just really wish you said that first, and not as a follow-up after I Suspected you for saying "same exact logic" with a different reaction this time ... so, Suspicion lessened a little but still largely there.

[TheFlyingBoat]

This is very interesting. I wish you said KoalaAttack and Bono or BK3K, because I have a lot of suspicions of Chaqa – but Chaqa is the one other person who 100% knows this to not be true.

I guess my Suspicion of Chaqa notwithstanding... Hi Chaqa, do you think this is just a Townie reaching for straws or Mafia trying to counter-accuse?


For everyone else:

As bad as lfischl looks, we shouldn't rule out a Chaqa/Koala team. I don't think BK is bad after doing more VCA. Will need to think more on it.

What tickles my scumdar there is how they behaved especially Day 1, with Koala generating non-scummy reasons to vote for Chaqa while laying out the course to abandon the vote. He has PE and Chaqa at the top of his scum lists for reasons he knows no one will ever latch onto as a reason to vote either.

In Case of Dying Declaration Suspects List update
Koala's Suspects List 4.0:

(1) Chaqa – having been reading Damo-related things in ISO, I just don't see anything to redeem my Suspicions on Chaqa. Claims Mafia, repeatedly. Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. Posts Suspect Lists including zero justifications. Did say Damo was a good info flip late in the day, but Damo being Town kind of negates that.

(2) President Eden – See my first-ever-VCA. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. If there is a Helpful Friendly Neighborhood Mafia type on the evil mastermind team, President Eden fits the bill. It was close between Chaqa and PE, but I'm a tad hesitant because my Suspicion of President Eden is similar to that of Balki last game, which was incorrect.

For reference here is one of the reads where it looks the most obvious to me in terms of maybe being scum theater.

Gonna re-read these two in a bit more deeply to see if I am right or going way too galaxy brained.

Claims Mafia, repeatedly.

[*]Chaqa - Gets too much joy out of joking to be scum. could be reaching for ragging rights if he lays it out on the table and still wins?

Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly.

lfischl is locktown

Who else is locktown?

since it was just that easy to locktown lfischl off one post I was thinking maybe you could work some more of that big bad chaqa voodoo magic and conjure up a few more for us

See my first-ever-VCA.

Two things that jumped out at me both have to do with President Eden:

(1) ghu really likes to change the vote right after Pre changes the vote earlier in the day – is this normal or Suspicious?

(2) since a lot of folks have been talking about ghug pushing Bona – it was Pre vote that put Bona at 6 votes first, and then ghu decided to back off Bona and go to Damo instead – not sure what to make of this?

koala's post hits hard

I am not going to keep going, too much work – but you get the idea. The statement by TFB in red is demonstrably false. I stand by every single one of those highlighted reasons to suspect Chaqa (we'll see sooner or later) and President Eden (come on, give me at least some credit for my first-ever VCA actually helping to catch a Mafia). And above are examples of other people "latching on" to them.

So the question is – did TFB really not see all these other folks "latching on" to same things about Chaqa or President Eden? I mean, BK3K has been pretty blunt about expressing the Chaqa-trolling suspicions for instance. So, like, if this is a Mafia frame attempt, why is it so bad? Does it mean it's an honest mistake?

I'll give you Eden, I missed it in my quick skim and that is quite good actually. As for Chaqa though, Chaqa trolling there isn't something that many would vote off of on future days. Maybe BK3K would, but certainly not a majority. lfischl, same thing. I don't think I thought anything of it contemporaneously. I just wrote it off as Chaqa being Chaqa and I feel like a majority did as well.

[KoalaAttack]

I'll give you Eden, I missed it in my quick skim and that is quite good actually. As for Chaqa though, Chaqa trolling there isn't something that many would vote off of on future days. Maybe BK3K would, but certainly not a majority. lfischl, same thing. I don't think I thought anything of it contemporaneously. I just wrote it off as Chaqa being Chaqa and I feel like a majority did as well.

Re Eden – thank you :)

Re Chaqa – sure, but now we are at the "majority" discussion as opposed to "no one ever will" which is what you originally said... BK3K did, and I did re Mafia claims – but I think we are representative of the broader group of "folks who don't know Chaqa well". Sounds like you know Chaqa well – so it makes sense for you to say "I would never", but to go from that to "no one would ever" is either projection or hyperbole or both. More importantly, it hurts our team (assuming for a second both you and Chaqa are Townies). I mean, having 2 new people who don't know Chaqa well go off tunneling common-sense suspicion for trolling instead of hunting real Mafia is not exactly helpful to catching Mafia, is it? ... And the lfischl claim, a few folks raised eyebrows, the brainbomb quote was just the first I found.

Which is all to say, I'm not trying to convince you here. I can totally see your point if you are telling me "that's just Chaqa indeed". But I have to take your word for it. And maybe you are Mafia with Chaqa, you know what I mean? All I'm saying is – I still think it's a logical and legit reason for me to continue suspecting Chaqa.

[Chaqa]

@Koala: because I thought Bunny was the CWV.

Making mafia kill him (when I thought that) or narrowing our PoE was a good play.

Thanks – this makes total sense, I just really wish you said that first, and not as a follow-up after I Suspected you for saying "same exact logic" with a different reaction this time ... so, Suspicion lessened a little but still largely there.

I did say this already implicitly when I explained why we would no kill, I just didn’t use the example because I didn’t remember we even No killed last game

[Chaqa]

I need to do some more digging on TFB.

I think Lfischl is the sure thing, but the last scum is tricky.

[BK3K]

Can someone tell me what lfischl's bussing looks like as mafia? I feel like the only mafia game I recall ever looking at him play was one where he self-destructed D1 and tied himself to a bunch of his team resulting in mafia conceding early.

Based on the most recent game it didn't seem like he bussed at all based on a quick perusal (correct me if I am wrong) and in the game before that it seemed like ones he was more forced into (bus damo to save self), not something where he puts a vote to leaves a hanging vote, especially not when Damo was there.

As bad as lfischl looks, we shouldn't rule out a Chaqa/Koala team. I don't think BK is bad after doing more VCA. Will need to think more on it.

What tickles my scumdar there is how they behaved especially Day 1, with Koala generating non-scummy reasons to vote for Chaqa while laying out the course to abandon the vote. He has PE and Chaqa at the top of his scum lists for reasons he knows no one will ever latch onto as a reason to vote either.

In Case of Dying Declaration Suspects List update


Koala's Suspects List 4.0:

(1) Chaqa – having been reading Damo-related things in ISO, I just don't see anything to redeem my Suspicions on Chaqa. Claims Mafia, repeatedly. Makes random statements re lfischl alignment with shaky hindsight justification at best, repeatedly. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. Posts Suspect Lists including zero justifications. Did say Damo was a good info flip late in the day, but Damo being Town kind of negates that.

(2) President Eden – See my first-ever-VCA. Jumped on the Cussing Out incident in a bad way. If there is a Helpful Friendly Neighborhood Mafia type on the evil mastermind team, President Eden fits the bill. It was close between Chaqa and PE, but I'm a tad hesitant because my Suspicion of President Eden is similar to that of Balki last game, which was incorrect.

For reference here is one of the reads where it looks the most obvious to me in terms of maybe being scum theater.

Gonna re-read these two in a bit more deeply to see if I am right or going way too galaxy brained.

Very interesting

[BK3K]

Question: is it standard and common knowledge that scum chat is on discord?

[Chaqa]

Question: is it standard and common knowledge that scum chat is on discord?

Yes. This was a big point last game. Balki didn't know this, which arguably led to him getting killed by rivera, which changed up the endgame a lot.

[BK3K]

Question: is it standard and common knowledge that scum chat is on discord?

Yes. This was a big point last game. Balki didn't know this, which arguably led to him getting killed by rivera, which changed up the endgame a lot.

Ok, just checking since Koala mentioned it a few times but i didn't hear that anywhere else. Thanks

[TheFlyingBoat]

I'll give you Eden, I missed it in my quick skim and that is quite good actually. As for Chaqa though, Chaqa trolling there isn't something that many would vote off of on future days. Maybe BK3K would, but certainly not a majority. lfischl, same thing. I don't think I thought anything of it contemporaneously. I just wrote it off as Chaqa being Chaqa and I feel like a majority did as well.

Re Eden – thank you :)

Re Chaqa – sure, but now we are at the "majority" discussion as opposed to "no one ever will" which is what you originally said... BK3K did, and I did re Mafia claims – but I think we are representative of the broader group of "folks who don't know Chaqa well". Sounds like you know Chaqa well – so it makes sense for you to say "I would never", but to go from that to "no one would ever" is either projection or hyperbole or both. More importantly, it hurts our team (assuming for a second both you and Chaqa are Townies). I mean, having 2 new people who don't know Chaqa well go off tunneling common-sense suspicion for trolling instead of hunting real Mafia is not exactly helpful to catching Mafia, is it? ... And the lfischl claim, a few folks raised eyebrows, the brainbomb quote was just the first I found.

Which is all to say, I'm not trying to convince you here. I can totally see your point if you are telling me "that's just Chaqa indeed". But I have to take your word for it. And maybe you are Mafia with Chaqa, you know what I mean? All I'm saying is – I still think it's a logical and legit reason for me to continue suspecting Chaqa.

No you’re right I have my veteran blinders on. And def don’t stop looking into Chaqa, like I said there’s a very real possibility he is scum. I just think there should be reasons being him trolling which I think there are based on connections and behavior

[TheFlyingBoat]

Reasons beyond hill trolling which I think there are *

[TheFlyingBoat]

Beyond him*

[KoalaAttack]

Faire enough – can you share what you think those reasons are?

[KoalaAttack]

In general, how would you all stack-rank people by actually trying to solve?

I specifically asked folks to post their Suspects Lists last night and only BK3K actually .

Bona and Bozo were both trying to solve in their own ways instead – Bona with a FrankenPost on TFB, Bozo with a bunch of random Suspicion bits on lfischl, Chaqa, TFB, BK3K, and myself.

Chaqa and TFB both posted some things last night, but for sure way less in terms of actual cases. TFB claims IRL busy-ness, Chaqa is just ... honestly, I give up on trying to read into Chaqa's attitude :)

lfischl continues conveniently hiding

[KoalaAttack]

But to Chaqa's and TFB's credit they are both trying to solve now during the Day – as is BK3K – now Bona is busy IRL and lfischl is still missing

[Chaqa]

I'm basically sure I've caught Lfischl already, so I'm mostly just biding time until the flip. If I'm wrong and we kill Lfischl, the game is over, and if I'm right, someone else will die before tomorrow, so it's not worth it IMO to put any more effort in until I have more information.

Maybe that seems defeatest, but it's more just how I choose to prioritize my time. I wouldn't shirk it so much if I wasn't sure Lfischl is scum.

[lfischl]

In general, how would you all stack-rank people by actually trying to solve?

I specifically asked folks to post their Suspects Lists last night and only BK3K actually .

Bona and Bozo were both trying to solve in their own ways instead – Bona with a FrankenPost on TFB, Bozo with a bunch of random Suspicion bits on lfischl, Chaqa, TFB, BK3K, and myself.

Chaqa and TFB both posted some things last night, but for sure way less in terms of actual cases. TFB claims IRL busy-ness, Chaqa is just ... honestly, I give up on trying to read into Chaqa's attitude :)

lfischl continues conveniently hiding

alright I'm here, koala who is your #2 scumread I guess myself

[lfischl]

In general, how would you all stack-rank people by actually trying to solve?

I specifically asked folks to post their Suspects Lists last night and only BK3K actually .

Bona and Bozo were both trying to solve in their own ways instead – Bona with a FrankenPost on TFB, Bozo with a bunch of random Suspicion bits on lfischl, Chaqa, TFB, BK3K, and myself.

Chaqa and TFB both posted some things last night, but for sure way less in terms of actual cases. TFB claims IRL busy-ness, Chaqa is just ... honestly, I give up on trying to read into Chaqa's attitude :)

lfischl continues conveniently hiding

alright I'm here, koala who is your #2 scumread I guess myself

besides myself