MAFIA 78: Random Facts [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[brainbomb]

im fine with both

[damo666]

im fine with both

I assume you mean either.

[brainbomb]

im fine with both

I assume you mean either.

no I am hoping you both die somehow

[President Eden]

if swords is mafia then rivera has done the most work to
keep reminding us that swords isnt scummy and theres plenty of time to kill a lurker and that swords isnt a priority.

thoughts?

I don't think the bolded part is a fair characterization of rivera's posts. Maybe I'm biased because his thoughts mirror mine, but I loathe the idea of shooting into the lurkers knowing full well we probably have to do it pretty soon due to the rough miskill situation. And I don't think he's ever said swords is not scummy, he's not really expressed an opinion on swords's play at all (which I guess could be suspicious if you want it to be, but I don't find it to be).

I'm more ponderous of ghug's earlier vote for lfischl, implicitly over swords (his reasoning being that we should start up wagons on the lurkers to see where people fall, which admittedly would have been a good idea). But if ghug is mafia he's obviously leaning hard into WIFOM/chaos/whatever with his votes, so I don't know that I have the info to glean anything more than what I want to see in it

[TheFlyingBoat]

I think it is possible TFB, damo, and ghug are all mafia and there was a fair amount of bussing going on D1. It would explain some of the unusual D1 voting. Also, TFB's strong push on damo D1 seems like a good bus candidate to me.

Why do you think it is a good bus candidate instead of just good scum hunting? I don't think I've ever been taken to KILO except in my galaxy brain play where I tried to throw the game as a VT to force a town win. People will ask questions about why I am still alive at the end of the game if I were to make it there after successfully "bussing" damo if we were both scum, so I don't think in a world in which I am scum I'll have accomplished anything that increases my win equity by doing so.

You were the top wagon when you started pushing damo, so it would have given you someone to vote for without risking a return vote, and potentially make damo look better of you were the D1 DK. However, it is the strong push you made for a damo DK on what I consider not much justification that I find questionable.

If I am scum with damo why do I bother protecting bona early when he is an easy mk because people find his posts weird and have terrible difficulty reading him? Like I could just railroad him, never let damo's name come up and take an easy D1 MK and then pick a new target during the night phase? It's not like buddying him would be useful or even work given he is often ignored even when right AND he's shown a propensity to scum read me in the past even when I say he isn't scum in prior games.The only explanation then that matches those assumptions surely is that me/damo/bona are a scum team, but surely that is absurd prima facie.

As for the justification, it was phenomenal. It's an oddity that has a relatively low incidence rate and only occurs when scum. And despite my somewhat fun nature while presenting it, at its core it is a recognition of an attempt to manufacture fake reads and fit in via a consistent tell which is a good way to hunt scum.

[brainbomb]

youve had a full day to try to look at the counter wagons to yourself and instead youve disregarded any scumreads ppl have to claim a dichotomy exists between me and lfischl.
that never had a chance of swinging my way so what is this really about

[brainbomb]

Hi all. got a pretty busy day and lots of cleaning to do ahead of my
nephews coming over for a night of video games and board games.

I think koala is still probably town and I dont know why rivera is getting agitatef by him but I dislike the eden wagon and I am really shocked to see so many people always claiming to scumread swords but
no voters ever seem to go there

It was no me that was agitated about Koala. I find his interaction with KB weird but today I had a good grasp on the type of player he is.

Sword have done nothing this game, so you can't really have a scumread on him, we can kill him as a policy, but that's it.

Why you dislike the Eden wagon?

[ghug]

I for one am shocked ghug would refuse to pick a wagon between eden and damo.

shocked truly

Why two when you could three?

[brainbomb]

Also a bit suprised chaqa never checked in before his dnd night

[President Eden]

Unfortunately I've been roped into something that's likely to take up a big part of the remaining day. I think I'll be able to keep an eye on things and I think I'll be around for EOD, but not sure yet.

I don't think much of anything has changed about the game state. I won't vote rdr, bozo, brain, Bona and probably won't vote BK. damo is my top preference, then ghug, then after that it's a bit hazy. Based on how today has gone I'm pretty confident damo and ghug are mafia, and the mafia has struggled to figure out how to attack a day where the wagons have been locked on to multiple scum all day long. My initial case on damo remains undisputed, and he's now just flailing around right now trying to find anything that will work to get him and ghug out of today - which is why he landed on lfischl (who is basically just a lurker rand vote - and note how ghug picked lfischl too!) but immediately and shamelessly followed lfischl's hint that he might vote me.

Like this post and makes me more confident you're town, but why wouldn't ghug call a hard bus right now instead of equivocating and being wishy-washy? I feel like scum ghug would try stop the bleeding and cut damo loose here. The only explanation I can think of that explains why ghug is waiting and trying to see if there is a way to save damo is if the other two scum buddies are mega inactive lurkers and/or people ghug doesn't trust to lead the game to a successful end after he racks up a couple miskills for scum before getting caught.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it's damo, ghug, and a couple of people who either haven't been involved (lurkers) or have proven ineffectual at being able to steer things away from damo and ghug. I can imagine that it's got to be hard in ghug's shoes where both you and your only other teammate that's getting into the mix are on the block. You don't want to give them up unless you have to.

Look at his Bona vote at this stage... that's obviously not going anywhere and it's hard to believe he even gives a shit about it

[President Eden]

Hi all. got a pretty busy day and lots of cleaning to do ahead of my
nephews coming over for a night of video games and board games.

I think koala is still probably town and I dont know why rivera is getting agitatef by him but I dislike the eden wagon and I am really shocked to see so many people always claiming to scumread swords but
no voters ever seem to go there

It was no me that was agitated about Koala. I find his interaction with KB weird but today I had a good grasp on the type of player he is.

Sword have done nothing this game, so you can't really have a scumread on him, we can kill him as a policy, but that's it.

Why you dislike the Eden wagon?

oh lol, punished for searching with 'swords'

my b. I think my point stands anyway though

[ghug]

if swords is mafia then rivera has done the most work to
keep reminding us that swords isnt scummy and theres plenty of time to kill a lurker and that swords isnt a priority.

thoughts?

I don't think the bolded part is a fair characterization of rivera's posts. Maybe I'm biased because his thoughts mirror mine, but I loathe the idea of shooting into the lurkers knowing full well we probably have to do it pretty soon due to the rough miskill situation. And I don't think he's ever said swords is not scummy, he's not really expressed an opinion on swords's play at all (which I guess could be suspicious if you want it to be, but I don't find it to be).

I'm more ponderous of ghug's earlier vote for lfischl, implicitly over swords (his reasoning being that we should start up wagons on the lurkers to see where people fall, which admittedly would have been a good idea). But if ghug is mafia he's obviously leaning hard into WIFOM/chaos/whatever with his votes, so I don't know that I have the info to glean anything more than what I want to see in it

Last game there was appetite for a lurker kill, and calls for yavu were louder than calls for lfischl. Sure enough, lfischl was the scum and we miskilled yav. Here, I was seeing lots more discussion of swordsman, so I chose to zag while others zigged. Maybe that didn't work because there's less appetite for a lurker kill in general, or because my political capital with the town is low right now (for reasons I don't entirely understand), but it's something to ponder as the game progresses.

[brainbomb]

maybe it does
rivera is pretty towny but hes certainly shielding swords pressure and that could be a grievous mistake

[brainbomb]

if swords is mafia then rivera has done the most work to
keep reminding us that swords isnt scummy and theres plenty of time to kill a lurker and that swords isnt a priority.

thoughts?

I don't think the bolded part is a fair characterization of rivera's posts. Maybe I'm biased because his thoughts mirror mine, but I loathe the idea of shooting into the lurkers knowing full well we probably have to do it pretty soon due to the rough miskill situation. And I don't think he's ever said swords is not scummy, he's not really expressed an opinion on swords's play at all (which I guess could be suspicious if you want it to be, but I don't find it to be).

I'm more ponderous of ghug's earlier vote for lfischl, implicitly over swords (his reasoning being that we should start up wagons on the lurkers to see where people fall, which admittedly would have been a good idea). But if ghug is mafia he's obviously leaning hard into WIFOM/chaos/whatever with his votes, so I don't know that I have the info to glean anything more than what I want to see in it

Last game there was appetite for a lurker kill, and calls for yavu were louder than calls for lfischl. Sure enough, lfischl was the scum and we miskilled yav. Here, I was seeing lots more discussion of swordsman, so I chose to zag while others zigged. Maybe that didn't work because there's less appetite for a lurker kill in general, or because my political capital with the town is low right now (for reasons I don't entirely understand), but it's something to ponder as the game progresses.

its that every zig people have proposed youve zagged

to a strange method. and I dont expect you to be me but I suspect youre just picking townies as attacks of opportunity

[ghug]

Unfortunately I've been roped into something that's likely to take up a big part of the remaining day. I think I'll be able to keep an eye on things and I think I'll be around for EOD, but not sure yet.

I don't think much of anything has changed about the game state. I won't vote rdr, bozo, brain, Bona and probably won't vote BK. damo is my top preference, then ghug, then after that it's a bit hazy. Based on how today has gone I'm pretty confident damo and ghug are mafia, and the mafia has struggled to figure out how to attack a day where the wagons have been locked on to multiple scum all day long. My initial case on damo remains undisputed, and he's now just flailing around right now trying to find anything that will work to get him and ghug out of today - which is why he landed on lfischl (who is basically just a lurker rand vote - and note how ghug picked lfischl too!) but immediately and shamelessly followed lfischl's hint that he might vote me.

Like this post and makes me more confident you're town, but why wouldn't ghug call a hard bus right now instead of equivocating and being wishy-washy? I feel like scum ghug would try stop the bleeding and cut damo loose here. The only explanation I can think of that explains why ghug is waiting and trying to see if there is a way to save damo is if the other two scum buddies are mega inactive lurkers and/or people ghug doesn't trust to lead the game to a successful end after he racks up a couple miskills for scum before getting caught.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it's damo, ghug, and a couple of people who either haven't been involved (lurkers) or have proven ineffectual at being able to steer things away from damo and ghug. I can imagine that it's got to be hard in ghug's shoes where both you and your only other teammate that's getting into the mix are on the block. You don't want to give them up unless you have to.

Look at his Bona vote at this stage... that's obviously not going anywhere and it's hard to believe he even gives a shit about it

Man, that's unfair. Bona had severe interest as recently as the beginning of the day, and we had an hour left and no consensus. Plenty of wagons emerge in that timeline, and I still see bona doing a fat load of nothing despite being here all day.

[President Eden]

It is definitely plausible that we're making a strategic mistake by not shooting lurkers earlier. This spot is a weird one

But if damo and ghug are mafia... hell even if just one is, we still have time to shoot them, I'm pretty sure

[ghug]

I don't think the bolded part is a fair characterization of rivera's posts. Maybe I'm biased because his thoughts mirror mine, but I loathe the idea of shooting into the lurkers knowing full well we probably have to do it pretty soon due to the rough miskill situation. And I don't think he's ever said swords is not scummy, he's not really expressed an opinion on swords's play at all (which I guess could be suspicious if you want it to be, but I don't find it to be).

I'm more ponderous of ghug's earlier vote for lfischl, implicitly over swords (his reasoning being that we should start up wagons on the lurkers to see where people fall, which admittedly would have been a good idea). But if ghug is mafia he's obviously leaning hard into WIFOM/chaos/whatever with his votes, so I don't know that I have the info to glean anything more than what I want to see in it

Last game there was appetite for a lurker kill, and calls for yavu were louder than calls for lfischl. Sure enough, lfischl was the scum and we miskilled yav. Here, I was seeing lots more discussion of swordsman, so I chose to zag while others zigged. Maybe that didn't work because there's less appetite for a lurker kill in general, or because my political capital with the town is low right now (for reasons I don't entirely understand), but it's something to ponder as the game progresses.

its that every zig people have proposed youve zagged

to a strange method. and I dont expect you to be me but I suspect youre just picking townies as attacks of opportunity

Do you think Eden, damo, and I are all scum? If I were doing for easy attacks on townies, why wouldn't I vote for one of them?

[President Eden]

Like this post and makes me more confident you're town, but why wouldn't ghug call a hard bus right now instead of equivocating and being wishy-washy? I feel like scum ghug would try stop the bleeding and cut damo loose here. The only explanation I can think of that explains why ghug is waiting and trying to see if there is a way to save damo is if the other two scum buddies are mega inactive lurkers and/or people ghug doesn't trust to lead the game to a successful end after he racks up a couple miskills for scum before getting caught.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it's damo, ghug, and a couple of people who either haven't been involved (lurkers) or have proven ineffectual at being able to steer things away from damo and ghug. I can imagine that it's got to be hard in ghug's shoes where both you and your only other teammate that's getting into the mix are on the block. You don't want to give them up unless you have to.

Look at his Bona vote at this stage... that's obviously not going anywhere and it's hard to believe he even gives a shit about it

Man, that's unfair. Bona had severe interest as recently as the beginning of the day, and we had an hour left and no consensus. Plenty of wagons emerge in that timeline, and I still see bona doing a fat load of nothing despite being here all day.

How can you possibly find Bona more sus than damo right now lol. This is wild.

##VOTE ghug

I don't think you believe anything you're saying right now

[ghug]

I'm starting to come around to the idea that it's damo, ghug, and a couple of people who either haven't been involved (lurkers) or have proven ineffectual at being able to steer things away from damo and ghug. I can imagine that it's got to be hard in ghug's shoes where both you and your only other teammate that's getting into the mix are on the block. You don't want to give them up unless you have to.

Look at his Bona vote at this stage... that's obviously not going anywhere and it's hard to believe he even gives a shit about it

Man, that's unfair. Bona had severe interest as recently as the beginning of the day, and we had an hour left and no consensus. Plenty of wagons emerge in that timeline, and I still see bona doing a fat load of nothing despite being here all day.

How can you possibly find Bona more sus than damo right now lol. This is wild.

##VOTE ghug

I don't think you believe anything you're saying right now

How can you possibly find me more sus than bona right now lol. This is wild.

Damo's played the game all day. Bona hasn't. You were on board with bona being scummy yesterday and nothing has changed. I still think he's a decent kill, but there's no reason bona shouldn't be on the block right now. Instead it's you and me, and I haven't even seen a reason for you yet.

[President Eden]

Man, that's unfair. Bona had severe interest as recently as the beginning of the day, and we had an hour left and no consensus. Plenty of wagons emerge in that timeline, and I still see bona doing a fat load of nothing despite being here all day.

How can you possibly find Bona more sus than damo right now lol. This is wild.

##VOTE ghug

I don't think you believe anything you're saying right now

How can you possibly find me more sus than bona right now lol. This is wild.

Damo's played the game all day. Bona hasn't. You were on board with bona being scummy yesterday and nothing has changed. I still think he's a decent kill, but there's no reason bona shouldn't be on the block right now. Instead it's you and me, and I haven't even seen a reason for you yet.

hello his entire N1?? what?

he hasn't set the world on fire D2 but idk how you can look at all the evidence for damo and tell me in good faith that Bona is more suspicious.

sorry half your team doesn't care about the game