MAFIA 78: Random Facts [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

Could also just be Chaqa who has gone back to not caring now that he’s not a kill target lol.

[President Eden]

Right now I think the team is among damo, ghug, lfischl, swordsman, and the other two rookies, in that order (the order after ghug doesn’t really matter though). Chaqa and Boat go back in the mix if damo is town, which is another good reason to flip him, but secondary to the fact that my case on him is way better than my case for ghug.

Main thing in favor of the ghug wagon right now is that all three people on it are bleeding town

[President Eden]

Actually, maybe Chaqa should be in the mix regardless of damo's flip

[bozotheclown]

Here is a question for everyone (not a survey). Which is the most likely scenario:

1. Bonatogether and damo are mafia bussing each other.

2. PE and ghug are mafia leading mis-kills of Bonatogether and damo.

3. The mafia are watching town vote for each other and consist primarily of BK3K, lfischl, rdrivera, and swordsman.

4. none of the above

I don’t see anything specifically compelling about Bona’s and damo’s interactions that says they’re busing. I’m pretty confident damo is mafia, and Boma keeps alternating between good posting and aggressively disdainful levels of spamming, which is making it harder for me to TR him than it should be. But they don’t look like a mafia pair to me.

ghug certainly could , be mafia, he’s not really leading anything imo. I’m less sold on what I pointed out n1 (and am mildly annoyed that I’m being represented as though I was, when I CLEARLY felt and feel much better about my damo case). I’m moved by brain’s observations though. And I feel like ghug is also in that here-to-be-here space like damo was before we called him out for it and he felt compelled to dial it up.

I think there’s necessarily some element of lurking mafia, but I’d be shocked if there are no mafia outside the lurkers.

So I guess strictly none of the above, but some truth to all? Thinking damo + ghug + a couple of lurkers for now, and that Bona is just being lazy and obnoxious rather than deliberately bloating the thread. I still think more strongly about damo than ghug, but I’d vote ghug ahead of a lot of other people

I agree damo's vote justifications D1 seemed off, but I am not sure I see the scum motivation for his vote changes. Maybe if he were mafia with Bonatogether or TFB, or both.

[ghug]

his claim that chaos is pro town in a game where 1 PR is dead and another is outted is demonstrably never the opinion he would have as town. he would be screaming at people for creating choas in that situaition.

do not listen to him if he claims otherwise.

Ok but you're wrong.

[ghug]

Here is a question for everyone (not a survey). Which is the most likely scenario:

1. Bonatogether and damo are mafia bussing each other.

2. PE and ghug are mafia leading mis-kills of Bonatogether and damo.

3. The mafia are watching town vote for each other and consist primarily of BK3K, lfischl, rdrivera, and swordsman.

4. none of the above

4. At least one of bonatogether and damo is scum and then it's either 1 or 3. I think 3 is probably more likely, but 1 is certainly possible. It'd be a bus by necessity.

Why are you sure that Bonatogether and damo are not both town?

I'm not sure. I scumread both of them and thus think their both being town is unlikely.

[President Eden]

Here is a question for everyone (not a survey). Which is the most likely scenario:

1. Bonatogether and damo are mafia bussing each other.

2. PE and ghug are mafia leading mis-kills of Bonatogether and damo.

3. The mafia are watching town vote for each other and consist primarily of BK3K, lfischl, rdrivera, and swordsman.

4. none of the above

I don’t see anything specifically compelling about Bona’s and damo’s interactions that says they’re busing. I’m pretty confident damo is mafia, and Boma keeps alternating between good posting and aggressively disdainful levels of spamming, which is making it harder for me to TR him than it should be. But they don’t look like a mafia pair to me.

ghug certainly could , be mafia, he’s not really leading anything imo. I’m less sold on what I pointed out n1 (and am mildly annoyed that I’m being represented as though I was, when I CLEARLY felt and feel much better about my damo case). I’m moved by brain’s observations though. And I feel like ghug is also in that here-to-be-here space like damo was before we called him out for it and he felt compelled to dial it up.

I think there’s necessarily some element of lurking mafia, but I’d be shocked if there are no mafia outside the lurkers.

So I guess strictly none of the above, but some truth to all? Thinking damo + ghug + a couple of lurkers for now, and that Bona is just being lazy and obnoxious rather than deliberately bloating the thread. I still think more strongly about damo than ghug, but I’d vote ghug ahead of a lot of other people

I agree damo's vote justifications D1 seemed off, but I am not sure I see the scum motivation for his vote changes. Maybe if he were mafia with Bonatogether or TFB, or both.

Or Chaqa maybe? I think having a mafia on the block at some point would have been enough reason for him to feel compelled to invent new premises to justify switching his votes around. As sure as I am that his play up until he was called out matched his mafia M.O., I admit that he's not going to just invent new frameworks to rationalize changing his vote without some kind of impetus from the tactical situation (or else he could just stick to what he's already said, which he often does, dipping for long periods). So presumably we were right on one of the d1 wagons to force a change.

[ghug]

ghug is the type of scum player who hates when he gets scumread for doing things he normally does as town. THe only time he ever cant refute it or he just clams up is when you spell out exactly what he is doing that is scummy, and that it is something he knows he only does as scum. and then he wont even argue because he will be too impressed to even know what to say. So far he has argued talking points being made about him being mafia because he knows those are the reasons why he is scum here. There are other legitimate reasons why he is absolutely scum here that no one has named specifically yet.

The first half of this is probably accurate, but it in no way supports the conclusion that I'm scum.

not necessarily but you have wanted to debate people on the merits of anything that looks like a scumread on you, and attack the phoenitcs, or the terms being used, or some caveat to each rather than addressing the substance that the person scumreading you finds you scummy plain and simple.
If they just simply shouldnt find you scummy thats a different argument. For example when the narrative is that you are chaotic as town, you are. but its situational. and the situation and the players you chose to display chaos towards do not seem like things you would do as town.
Additionally I think you just hate being scumread for boring reasons. And you love it when people just know exactly why you did what you did. So in this case the only way I could get you to stop fighting me on it is if I spelled exactly who you were protecting and why, and said it to a level of exactness youd just be impressed beyond measure with. and I cant do that because youre complicated and I probably will never get it exactly right why you did it, or who you exactly saved.

and thats because you did it very well.

I'm very concerned with being right regardless of alignment, though, which is where this falls apart. It's fine psychoanalysis but it's not very good scumhuntanalysis.

[ghug]

##VOTE ghug

Primarily because I still do not understand why BunnyGo moved up and TFB moved down in ghug's D1 scum reads before D1 EOD.

Did you miss my explanation or are you simply unhappy with it?

[President Eden]

The first half of this is probably accurate, but it in no way supports the conclusion that I'm scum.

not necessarily but you have wanted to debate people on the merits of anything that looks like a scumread on you, and attack the phoenitcs, or the terms being used, or some caveat to each rather than addressing the substance that the person scumreading you finds you scummy plain and simple.
If they just simply shouldnt find you scummy thats a different argument. For example when the narrative is that you are chaotic as town, you are. but its situational. and the situation and the players you chose to display chaos towards do not seem like things you would do as town.
Additionally I think you just hate being scumread for boring reasons. And you love it when people just know exactly why you did what you did. So in this case the only way I could get you to stop fighting me on it is if I spelled exactly who you were protecting and why, and said it to a level of exactness youd just be impressed beyond measure with. and I cant do that because youre complicated and I probably will never get it exactly right why you did it, or who you exactly saved.

and thats because you did it very well.

I'm very concerned with being right regardless of alignment, though, which is where this falls apart. It's fine psychoanalysis but it's not very good scumhuntanalysis.

1) I question that, I think you hate being caught for the wrong reasons way more than being wrong about anything as town. I've seen it idk how many times in all our SvT battles in the last couple years. I think you honestly believe what you're saying about wanting to be right all the time but I don't think it's actually true.
2) That's going to manifest in different ways depending on your alignment regardless. As town it will be externally focused on pushing suspects and protecting town reads, as mafia it will be internally focused on why people suspect you for the right/wrong reasons. I think you've been more internally focused.

[Chaqa]

Could also just be Chaqa who has gone back to not caring now that he’s not a kill target lol.

Don't construe not having much to say with not saying much.

I'm content with the prevailing wagons to an extent, though I think ghug is town.

[President Eden]

Could also just be Chaqa who has gone back to not caring now that he’s not a kill target lol.

Don't construe not having much to say with not saying much.

I'm content with the prevailing wagons to an extent, though I think ghug is town.

not asking for a solve, but I guess I am - who else besides damo do you think is mafia?

[ghug]

not necessarily but you have wanted to debate people on the merits of anything that looks like a scumread on you, and attack the phoenitcs, or the terms being used, or some caveat to each rather than addressing the substance that the person scumreading you finds you scummy plain and simple.
If they just simply shouldnt find you scummy thats a different argument. For example when the narrative is that you are chaotic as town, you are. but its situational. and the situation and the players you chose to display chaos towards do not seem like things you would do as town.
Additionally I think you just hate being scumread for boring reasons. And you love it when people just know exactly why you did what you did. So in this case the only way I could get you to stop fighting me on it is if I spelled exactly who you were protecting and why, and said it to a level of exactness youd just be impressed beyond measure with. and I cant do that because youre complicated and I probably will never get it exactly right why you did it, or who you exactly saved.

and thats because you did it very well.

I'm very concerned with being right regardless of alignment, though, which is where this falls apart. It's fine psychoanalysis but it's not very good scumhuntanalysis.

1) I question that, I think you hate being caught for the wrong reasons way more than being wrong about anything as town. I've seen it idk how many times in all our SvT battles in the last couple years. I think you honestly believe what you're saying about wanting to be right all the time but I don't think it's actually true.
2) That's going to manifest in different ways depending on your alignment regardless. As town it will be externally focused on pushing suspects and protecting town reads, as mafia it will be internally focused on why people suspect you for the right/wrong reasons. I think you've been more internally focused.

I don't think that's true. I struggle with getting sidetracked defending myself as town (i.e. here) once pressure mounts to a reasonable volume.

[President Eden]

I'm very concerned with being right regardless of alignment, though, which is where this falls apart. It's fine psychoanalysis but it's not very good scumhuntanalysis.

1) I question that, I think you hate being caught for the wrong reasons way more than being wrong about anything as town. I've seen it idk how many times in all our SvT battles in the last couple years. I think you honestly believe what you're saying about wanting to be right all the time but I don't think it's actually true.
2) That's going to manifest in different ways depending on your alignment regardless. As town it will be externally focused on pushing suspects and protecting town reads, as mafia it will be internally focused on why people suspect you for the right/wrong reasons. I think you've been more internally focused.

I don't think that's true. I struggle with getting sidetracked defending myself as town (i.e. here) once pressure mounts to a reasonable volume.

is that what happened? because before you were getting sidetracked today you and Bona were just absolutely shitting up the thread with nonsense last night.

[Chaqa]

Could also just be Chaqa who has gone back to not caring now that he’s not a kill target lol.

Don't construe not having much to say with not saying much.

I'm content with the prevailing wagons to an extent, though I think ghug is town.

not asking for a solve, but I guess I am - who else besides damo do you think is mafia?

Swordsman almost for sure.

Koala has not seemed genuine and his super-tunnel on me and Bona seems like a way to imitate his town-stubbornness vote on me he did last game when we fought.

Beyond that I'm not sure yet. I townread Brain, Ghug, Lfischl, you, and TFB.

Bona I'm not sure on, but he seems town to me if I had to pick.

I guess that leaves last one in Bozo, Rivera, B3K, who are all pretty meh to me atm.

[ghug]

With that in mind, some thoughts on recent events:
1. Does anyone remember bona expressing a strong opinion, like, ever?
2. I feel like my wagon is coming from a good place even if y'all are terribly wrong. My chaos does not tend to win me friends. I am a little concerned by the fact that brain has been largely consistent on a scumread for ~48 hours now while continuing to treat me with respect, but I think I'm inclined to trust my D1 townread for the time being.
3. There's a cynical part of me that thinks Bishkek was coached to lurk. He seemed plenty in it D1 and just isn't now.

[ghug]

1) I question that, I think you hate being caught for the wrong reasons way more than being wrong about anything as town. I've seen it idk how many times in all our SvT battles in the last couple years. I think you honestly believe what you're saying about wanting to be right all the time but I don't think it's actually true.
2) That's going to manifest in different ways depending on your alignment regardless. As town it will be externally focused on pushing suspects and protecting town reads, as mafia it will be internally focused on why people suspect you for the right/wrong reasons. I think you've been more internally focused.

I don't think that's true. I struggle with getting sidetracked defending myself as town (i.e. here) once pressure mounts to a reasonable volume.

is that what happened? because before you were getting sidetracked today you and Bona were just absolutely shitting up the thread with nonsense last night.

Well last night I was drunk.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE ghug

Primarily because I still do not understand why BunnyGo moved up and TFB moved down in ghug's D1 scum reads before D1 EOD.

Did you miss my explanation or are you simply unhappy with it?

Your explanations since D1 have been vague, and I do not find the reasons you gave D1 convincing.

[BK3K]

##vote chaqa

Why? No solid reason. Hate the scum claim and subsequent walk back.

Feel like at least one of the wagons, maybe more, are scum fabricated

Random guess is right 33% of the time

[ghug]

##VOTE ghug

Primarily because I still do not understand why BunnyGo moved up and TFB moved down in ghug's D1 scum reads before D1 EOD.

Did you miss my explanation or are you simply unhappy with it?

Your explanations since D1 have been vague, and I do not find the reasons you gave D1 convincing.

I found Bunny's votes on suspiciously unjustified and potentially opportunistic. I thought Boat's insistence on differentiating between the other wagons while he was on the block was town-motivated.