MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?

This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.

[rdrivera2005]

Great, I am really relieved I didn't loss the game.

If I am alive tomorrow I will try to re-read and dig deeper so whoever is the last scum please kill me...

Whoever is scum you will be alive. You can't kill yourself and Balki and Chaqa have to keep you to create the suspicion you are the dark horse.

So I fully expect I will be the NK.

I think we both should put some effort this night to help the surviving one to decide.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

[damo666]

Great, I am really relieved I didn't loss the game.

If I am alive tomorrow I will try to re-read and dig deeper so whoever is the last scum please kill me...

Whoever is scum you will be alive. You can't kill yourself and Balki and Chaqa have to keep you to create the suspicion you are the dark horse.

So I fully expect I will be the NK.

I think we both should put some effort this night to help the surviving one to decide.

OK

[Balki Bartokomous]

On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?

This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.

lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?

[rdrivera2005]

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:

I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim

That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.

[rdrivera2005]

On Day 3 Lfischl chose to vote me instead of voting for Bozo.

Does this not make you wonder? If he was afraid of voting for his teammate, why would he vote for a different teammate?

This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.

lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?

CLAIMS

Balki: VT
Bozo:
Bo:
Bunny: PR [not doctor]
Chaqa: VT
damo: VT
Koala:
lfischl: VT
rdr: VT
worcej: doctor

Also updated scum list because someone asked for that,
Chaqa bozo Koala

This was on D3.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.

Nothing is going to make any of us "clear."

But I think it is remarkable how focused lfischl is on me on Day 1. His first four posts are about me or directed to me.

If someone gets a PM with secrets in it. And one of the secrets is that I am his teammate. I think it would be very unusual for him to direct his first four posts (more than half of his Day 1 posts in fact) to me or about me.

I am not saying I am clear, of course. I am saying that is strong evidence that I am not on lfischl's team. I am not one of lfischl's secrets. It is evidence of an "unpair."

[Balki Bartokomous]

This argument is weak. Lfischl voting Bozo would have locked both as top wagons. Voting you is a vanity wagon and could be distancing.
But him listing you and Bozo as top suspects is something I didn't expect if you are his partners.

lfischl never listed Chaqa/Bozo as his top suspects. Are you saying that he did that, or.... what are you saying?

Also updated scum list because someone asked for that,
Chaqa bozo Koala

This was on D3.

Ah, you are correct. I missed that.

[Chaqa]

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

I will check it out.

[Chaqa]

@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:

I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim

That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.

Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.

[Chaqa]

Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)

[rdrivera2005]

@rdrivera, @Damo, @Chaqa

Look at lfischl's Day 1. See where his focus is. See what he says. Consider what is most likely about my alignment.

Lfishcl had only 7 posts D1. His first two were answers to you. Do you think this somehow make you clear?

He also townreads Bo, which is probably why he didn't vote him neither Bozo at D3.

Nothing is going to make any of us "clear."

But I think it is remarkable how focused lfischl is on me on Day 1. His first four posts are about me or directed to me.

If someone gets a PM with secrets in it. And one of the secrets is that I am his teammate. I think it would be very unusual for him to direct his first four posts (more than half of his Day 1 posts in fact) to me or about me.

I am not saying I am clear, of course. I am saying that is strong evidence that I am not on lfischl's team. I am not one of lfischl's secrets. It is evidence of an "unpair."

I see your point, but you were also driving the thread, with first serious vote and then a claim. He made two posts directed to you and then two directed to Bo, one of them he said he finds you defensive but probably town. I won't give you town cred for this.

Interesting lfishcl included both you and Chaqa at his D2 scumreads.

I need to re-read Bozo, but it's a lot more messages and I also need to work.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:

I would be open to flipping someone like chaqa because I don't believe his claim

That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.

Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.

I don't understand this argument.

The vote was 6 lfischl, 2 Bozo, 1 Damo, 1 Chaqa.

You are saying that lfischl knew that he was going to be chopped, and he would have thought that whomever he had his vote on would "link himself to his teammate." Aren't you using the opposite of that logic right now, that his vote "delinks him from his teammate"? Why wouldn't Scum lfischl apply the same logic you are applying right now?

So you are saying that we should assume that you are not scum because scum wouldn't have wanted to have his vote on you when he died?

In the world where the scum team is Bozo/Chaqa/lfischl, what should we expect lfischl to do when he is about to be chopped?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)

I'd be interested to hear that from rdrivera and/or Damo if they believe it.

I am skeptical of players offering insights on their own meta, and I think you can understand why.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I see your point, but you were also driving the thread, with first serious vote and then a claim. He made two posts directed to you and then two directed to Bo, one of them he said he finds you defensive but probably town. I won't give you town cred for this.

You should. But it's okay.

[Chaqa]

@Chaqa, lfischl did vote you and did say a few times that he read you as scum.

Do you want to hear a complete list of everything lfischl said that was negative about you that might possibly convince someone else that you are scum?

You can read that here:


That's it. That is a complete list.

What does this remind me of?....

Ah, right, Chaqa said that lfischl was his top scumread, and also did not say anything negative about lfischl that might convince someone else to vote there.

This is about as classic partner distancing as I can imagine. Tell people that you would be happy to chop your teammate, but never try to convince anyone that your teammate is scum.

Sure, but within the context of Lfischl being on the block... does he really want to link himself to his teammate with his last act?

If he didn't care, he would vote Bozo, but he didn't, which means he didn't want to vote for a teammate.

I don't understand this argument.

The vote was 6 lfischl, 2 Bozo, 1 Damo, 1 Chaqa.

You are saying that lfischl knew that he was going to be chopped, and he would have thought that whomever he had his vote on would "link himself to his teammate." Aren't you using the opposite of that logic right now, that his vote "delinks him from his teammate"? Why wouldn't Scum lfischl apply the same logic you are applying right now?

So you are saying that we should assume that you are not scum because scum wouldn't have wanted to have his vote on you when he died?

In the world where the scum team is Bozo/Chaqa/lfischl, what should we expect lfischl to do when he is about to be chopped?

Vote Bozo, since he's up like 4 votes and it makes Bozo look good.

Wasting your vote on another wagon there was one reason I was suspicious of Bozo.

[Chaqa]

Re: scum distancing

Damo and Rivera should be able to attest that the way I interact with my teammates is much more direct.

I spent an entire game at Kgray's throat (and her at mine)

I'd be interested to hear that from rdrivera and/or Damo if they believe it.

I am skeptical of players offering insights on their own meta, and I think you can understand why.

To be honest, it is a little hypocritical coming from me in general, since I vary my playstyle by whatever way the wind, my ADHD, and my various levels of sobriety take me.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I guess that the remaining mafia player is likely to be Tough Guy. Do we think that's true?

I feel like scum team likely does not kill Bunny last night if they do not have Tough Guy, but I'm not sure about that.

I'm also not sure it matters, but I wonder if anyone has thoughts on it.