Twenty Questions, Game 90

[Jamiet99uk]

Free guess:

Qi Jiguang

[JECE]

No. It’s a shame, these countries are woefully underrepresented in the past ninety selections (no one’s chosen a Greek yet??). Still they were also some of the least likely to be correct, with the exception of certain Romanian voivodes and the PLC.

You have China, Flanders, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, and Portugal remaining.

I thought that it might be a Pole from the era of partitions and decided to throw in the rest of Eastern Europe and other unlikely possibilities.

[JECE]

Koxinga?

[JECE]

Ok we have spent FAR too much time on nationality. At least now we know it's a famous person from China or Japan.

Oops, misread the answer.

I think that he is unlikely to be Japanese. None of the daimyos claimed to be independent of Japan or the emperor as far as I understand. It would be odd to demur over the question of whether any Japanese man of this period was "from" Japan.

[Foxcastle]

1. real
2. male
3. non-english native language
4. unknown to wikipedia for him speaking a second (or more) language(s)
5. dead
6. born AFTER 1st of January 1500 AD/CE
7. From a country forming the League of Nations in 1920*
8. Not (primarily?) described as entertainer (might fit depending on interpretation)
9. Died before 1st of January 1940 AD/CE
10. NOT from Suriname, the Lesser Antilles, Malta, Cyprus, Africa or Asia (excluding China, Japan, Siam/Thailand, Persia/Iran)
11. non-spanish native language
12. Primarily a military man, military leader, rebel, political reformer and/or political leader involved in the political state of his (and maybe neighbouring) country(/ies)
13. Not alive after 1800 AD/CE (according to wikipedia)
14. Not a native French speaker
15. Not from: Bohemia, Bosnia, Brazil, Croatia, Czechia, Greece, Herzegovina, Kosovo, Moldavia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Persia/Iran, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Siam/Thailand, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, Transylvania or Wallachia
16. Not born in Netherlands
17. Born in either China or Japan

*taken liberally, because of the political state during his life, is considered a native from the list in the link below

NOT
Marshall Tito (not counted for free guess)
Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar y Palacio (not counted for free guess)

[Foxcastle]

Died before 1650?

[damo666]

Ok we have spent FAR too much time on nationality. At least now we know it's a famous person from China or Japan.

Oops, misread the answer.

I think that he is unlikely to be Japanese. None of the daimyos claimed to be independent of Japan or the emperor as far as I understand. It would be odd to demur over the question of whether any Japanese man of this period was "from" Japan.

Yep. Must be from what we now call China. No more questions needed on this.

[damo666]

Free guess

Li Zicheng

[damo666]

Free guess

Li Zicheng

Ignore if answer to Fox's question is No.

[Kakarroto]

Ok we have spent FAR too much time on nationality. At least now we know it's a famous person from China or Japan.

Oops, misread the answer.

I think that he is unlikely to be Japanese. None of the daimyos claimed to be independent of Japan or the emperor as far as I understand. It would be odd to demur over the question of whether any Japanese man of this period was "from" Japan.

Yep. Must be from what we now call China. No more questions needed on this.

I ... kinda disagree on this point, Japan at the time was more like the HRE in that regard. There were regions who were practically independent. Sure, there was a connection to the emperor/tenno, but it isn't as cut and dry as mentioned above.

The phrasing was: "I’ll take “country” liberally and say yes." Japan, at least before Tokugawa, was a feudal decentralised conglomerate with different leader in each region that didn't listen to any oversight. Someone could also describe Japan as anarchical in that time. That phrasing from our GM could fit Japan at the time.

However, we can probably rule out Japan with Foxcastles question, if the answer is no, it's probably not someone from Japan. If he died before 1650 AD/CE however, so he lived in the period between 1500-1650, I think we can't rule Japan out. Maybe I'm wrong here but we also shouldn't discard an option too fast.

Well ... we could ask our GM nicely for clarification if in their eyes the Japan in the 16th century was only a country if judged liberally ... but that is nearly a question, no? I think we can't really afford to use a question here.

Well, if he died before 1650 (or our GM explicitly retracts Japan, I think I'll use my free guess on one of the three following persons:
Oda Nobunaga
Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Tokugawa Ieyasu

[JECE]

I mean, we can't rule Japan out completely, but Japan at the time would count as a country by any of the three relevant definitions on Merriam-Webster:

1 : an indefinite usually extended expanse of land : REGION
2 a : the land of a person's birth, residence, or citizenship
2 b : a political state or nation or its territory

Where Merriam-Webster defines a state as:

5 a : a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory
especially : one that is sovereign

Decentralized conglomerates such as the Holy Roman Empire fit those definitions.

[han-shahanshah]

I ... kinda disagree on this point, Japan at the time was more like the HRE in that regard. There were regions who were practically independent. Sure, there was a connection to the emperor/tenno, but it isn't as cut and dry as mentioned above.

The phrasing was: "I’ll take “country” liberally and say yes." Japan, at least before Tokugawa, was a feudal decentralised conglomerate with different leader in each region that didn't listen to any oversight. Someone could also describe Japan as anarchical in that time. That phrasing from our GM could fit Japan at the time.

Yes, this is the interpretation I was looking for! I even brought up the HRE as an example a little earlier hoping someone would see the connection.

Well, apologies for all this confusion. I’ll be refunding all your free guesses to recognize my own ambiguous description..

Died before 1650?

Yes.

[han-shahanshah]

I mean, we can't rule Japan out completely, but Japan at the time would count as a country by any of the three relevant definitions on Merriam-Webster:

1 : an indefinite usually extended expanse of land : REGION
2 a : the land of a person's birth, residence, or citizenship
2 b : a political state or nation or its territory

Where Merriam-Webster defines a state as:

5 a : a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory
especially : one that is sovereign

Decentralized conglomerates such as the Holy Roman Empire fit those definitions.

Politically organized can be a tricky term.

Two questions left I believe?

[JECE]

I ... kinda disagree on this point, Japan at the time was more like the HRE in that regard. There were regions who were practically independent. Sure, there was a connection to the emperor/tenno, but it isn't as cut and dry as mentioned above.

The phrasing was: "I’ll take “country” liberally and say yes." Japan, at least before Tokugawa, was a feudal decentralised conglomerate with different leader in each region that didn't listen to any oversight. Someone could also describe Japan as anarchical in that time. That phrasing from our GM could fit Japan at the time.

Yes, this is the interpretation I was looking for! I even brought up the HRE as an example a little earlier hoping someone would see the connection.

Well, apologies for all this confusion. I’ll be refunding all your free guesses to recognize my own ambiguous description..

Died before 1650?

Yes.

Unfortunately, 1650 is right in the middle of the Ming-Qing transition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitio ... ng_to_Qing

[Jamiet99uk]

So just to be clear this person is definitely from Japan ?

[DougJoe]

Well, if he died before 1650 (or our GM explicitly retracts Japan, I think I'll use my free guess on one of the three following persons:
Oda Nobunaga
Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Don't forget about Shingen Takeda, the Tiger of Kai, and Kenshin Uesugi, the Dragon of Echigo!

[Kakarroto]

So just to be clear this person is definitely from Japan ?

Personally I wouldn't discount China but our GM's reaction points more to Japan, if I read it correctly.

How do you all (except our GM) feel about a question 19 that is phrased like "Was this person on the winning side during a civil war/conflict/war of domination/war of unification?", is it acceptable or would you phrase it in another way? Or would you prefer a totally different question?

[Kakarroto]

Well, if he died before 1650 (or our GM explicitly retracts Japan, I think I'll use my free guess on one of the three following persons:
Oda Nobunaga
Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Don't forget about Shingen Takeda, the Tiger of Kai, and Kenshin Uesugi, the Dragon of Echigo!

Yeah, there were many important personalities at the time, though personally I tend to think of the winning side more; and honestly, I think it's probably something like a 50/50 between Nobunaga and Ieyasu, at least for me.

[Kakarroto]

1. real
2. male
3. non-english native language
4. unknown to wikipedia for him speaking a second (or more) language(s)
5. dead
6. born AFTER 1st of January 1500 AD/CE
7. From a country forming the League of Nations in 1920*
8. Not (primarily?) described as entertainer (might fit depending on interpretation)
9. Died before 1st of January 1940 AD/CE
10. NOT from Suriname, the Lesser Antilles, Malta, Cyprus, Africa or Asia (excluding China, Japan, Siam/Thailand, Persia/Iran)
11. non-spanish native language
12. Primarily a military man, military leader, rebel, political reformer and/or political leader involved in the political state of his (and maybe neighbouring) country(/ies)
13. Not alive after 1800 AD/CE (according to wikipedia)
14. Not a native French speaker
15. Not from: Bohemia, Bosnia, Brazil, Croatia, Czechia, Greece, Herzegovina, Kosovo, Moldavia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Persia/Iran, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Siam/Thailand, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, Transylvania or Wallachia
16. Not born in Netherlands
17. Born in either China or Japan
18. Died before 1650 AD/CE


*taken liberally, because of the political state during his life, is considered a native from the list in the link below

NOT
Marshall Tito (not counted for free guess)
Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar y Palacio (not counted for free guess)


I'm not sure how to deal with damo's guess, since our GM didn't answer it but it kinda fulfills a valid guess even though it might've been refunded with the Japan clarification?

Also, do you guys have any ideas what we should ask for the 19th question?

[Jamiet99uk]

Free guess:

Qi Jiguang

CALL QUESTIONMASTER

Did you respond to this guess?