MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[damo666]

Another townie thing about Bo's D1 vote. He moved off lfischl with 20 minutes to go about an hour after becoming the sole voter left on lfischl. If he had been bussing wouldn't he have just left it?

Because he would have expected us to give him town credit for staying on a lfischl vanity wagon? Is that the argument you are making?

Yes.

[damo666]

I don’t see a point in casting a “night vote.” My “vote” will simply stay with whomever the majority of our PRs chooses.

I do see a benefit in all of the non-clears making arguments to support who they think is scum and who they think is town. Right now, my lead suspects are Bo, rdrivera, and Chaqa. I’ll try to put a bit more time into it later today to read some more and elaborate more. I encourage everyone to re-read the game, or re-read parts of the game. We’ve learned a ton of new info recently, and it all looks a little different now.

To help gambler if there is one decide who to bet on. They could get an item that prevents a NK.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I don’t see a point in casting a “night vote.” My “vote” will simply stay with whomever the majority of our PRs chooses.

I do see a benefit in all of the non-clears making arguments to support who they think is scum and who they think is town. Right now, my lead suspects are Bo, rdrivera, and Chaqa. I’ll try to put a bit more time into it later today to read some more and elaborate more. I encourage everyone to re-read the game, or re-read parts of the game. We’ve learned a ton of new info recently, and it all looks a little different now.

To help gambler if there is one decide who to bet on. They could get an item that prevents a NK.

I understand that, of course.

My point is that the three cleared town should select the chop target for tomorrow. They should make that choice during the night so that, if we stick with it, Gambler would receive an item.

I don’t think it matters who the non-clears “vote for” tonight. But for non-clears, this may be your last opportunity to solve the game. Go back and re-read with all of the new info you have. Make your case.

[rdrivera2005]

No one ever talks about the many games where I spend the whole time keeping my teammates alive (celaph comes to mind in one or two games). Specificlly, Damo knows this as i've been scum with him a bunch of times.

But it's not as easy to use that in a case as "chaqa has a reputation as a busser, look at this one vote count from thirty games ago!" type BS.

tldr all of the accusations I get every single game got old forty games ago and it's weird I'm the only one who gets the "bussing reputation" comments every game.

I also have this bussing reputation based on old games where I bussed hard so it's not only you.

[rdrivera2005]

I don’t see a point in casting a “night vote.” My “vote” will simply stay with whomever the majority of our PRs chooses.

I do see a benefit in all of the non-clears making arguments to support who they think is scum and who they think is town. Right now, my lead suspects are Bo, rdrivera, and Chaqa. I’ll try to put a bit more time into it later today to read some more and elaborate more. I encourage everyone to re-read the game, or re-read parts of the game. We’ve learned a ton of new info recently, and it all looks a little different now.

To help gambler if there is one decide who to bet on. They could get an item that prevents a NK.

I understand that, of course.

My point is that the three cleared town should select the chop target for tomorrow. They should make that choice during the night so that, if we stick with it, Gambler would receive an item.

I don’t think it matters who the non-clears “vote for” tonight. But for non-clears, this may be your last opportunity to solve the game. Go back and re-read with all of the new info you have. Make your case.

I think the voting exercise Is important because if we follow with this then next day we won't have a "real" voting. Also, letting the clears choose the DK is a great way for scum just to avoid producing any new info.

[damo666]

I don’t see a point in casting a “night vote.” My “vote” will simply stay with whomever the majority of our PRs chooses.

I do see a benefit in all of the non-clears making arguments to support who they think is scum and who they think is town. Right now, my lead suspects are Bo, rdrivera, and Chaqa. I’ll try to put a bit more time into it later today to read some more and elaborate more. I encourage everyone to re-read the game, or re-read parts of the game. We’ve learned a ton of new info recently, and it all looks a little different now.

SCUM

Chaqa - his very survival following his watcher claim
Bozo - vibes, the tunnel on bo
rdr - inactivity

Balki - mainly towny posts
Bo - reasons already stated

TOWN

[damo666]

To help gambler if there is one decide who to bet on. They could get an item that prevents a NK.

I understand that, of course.

My point is that the three cleared town should select the chop target for tomorrow. They should make that choice during the night so that, if we stick with it, Gambler would receive an item.

I don’t think it matters who the non-clears “vote for” tonight. But for non-clears, this may be your last opportunity to solve the game. Go back and re-read with all of the new info you have. Make your case.

I think the voting exercise Is important because if we follow with this then next day we won't have a "real" voting. Also, letting the clears choose the DK is a great way for scum just to avoid producing any new info.

Good point. Shift => town for rdr.

Also the PRs might vote for 3 different vts.

Please all vote.

[rdrivera2005]

I was looking the voting from D3 to see if I can see a pattern but it's almost pointless. After the 3 clears voted for lfischl it was a done deal, any vote after this don’t get any credit. Even lfischl gave up, choosing to vote Chaqa instead of a closer wagon. It could mean both Bo and Bozo are scum, but it isn't a combination I would expect.

On the earlier votes, Chaqa vote looks a lot better then Balki. Chaqa was second vote and put lfishcl tied with Bo and then Balki just bail out and voted me out of nowhere. But both votes where with 20 hours to go, so not sure if we can read something on it.

[damo666]

Current nightvote

Bo 2 - Bunny, Bozo
Chaqa 1 - damo
damo 1 - Chaqa

Balki Bo Koala rdr worcej to vote

Emboldened have posted without voting

[rdrivera2005]

I understand that, of course.

My point is that the three cleared town should select the chop target for tomorrow. They should make that choice during the night so that, if we stick with it, Gambler would receive an item.

I don’t think it matters who the non-clears “vote for” tonight. But for non-clears, this may be your last opportunity to solve the game. Go back and re-read with all of the new info you have. Make your case.

I think the voting exercise Is important because if we follow with this then next day we won't have a "real" voting. Also, letting the clears choose the DK is a great way for scum just to avoid producing any new info.

Good point. Shift => town for rdr.

Also the PRs might vote for 3 different vts.

Please all vote.

Why clears should vote for different VTs? I think the best option is for them no not vote at all, until closer to EON/EOD and let the suspects (us VTs) vote each other, then they can reach a consensus or vote whoever they want. Probably need to be done with some time before EON for gambler adjust his gamble (that could be the last by the way).

[damo666]

What can be gleaned from voting [imo]

Day 1

Balki - nothing
Bozo - nothing
Bo - towny as previously argued
Chaqa - nothing
rdr - he voted for me with votes at 2 each for fish,Bunny, ghug, worcej; he could have voted any of those 3 town to help fish so I would argue this is towny

Day 2

Balki - nothing
Bozo - arguably not scummate with bo
Bo - nothing
Chaqa - nothing
rdr - nothing

Day 3

Balki - moved off rdr when rdr got his second vote, slight suspicion only
Bozo - as per D2
Bo - kinda confirms not scummate with Bozo
Chaqa - nothing
rdr - again arguably not scummate of fish

Summary

Bo and rdr probably town so scumpair in {Chaqa, Bozo, Balki} in that order.

[damo666]

I think the voting exercise Is important because if we follow with this then next day we won't have a "real" voting. Also, letting the clears choose the DK is a great way for scum just to avoid producing any new info.

Good point. Shift => town for rdr.

Also the PRs might vote for 3 different vts.

Please all vote.

Why clears should vote for different VTs? I think the best option is for them no not vote at all, until closer to EON/EOD and let the suspects (us VTs) vote each other, then they can reach a consensus or vote whoever they want. Probably need to be done with some time before EON for gambler adjust his gamble (that could be the last by the way).

I'm not saying they should, I'm saying they might which would give gambler a headache. Worcej and Koala waiting for rest of VTs to vote first probably a good idea.

[worcej]

I’m not going to answer any questions about my claim. Don’t visit me unless you’re a Wolf.

I suggest that we focus on alignments.

Being awfully defensive for a town role, and it's D1 man, live a little

This phrasing is VERY awkward

This is a great D1 quote find...

[damo666]

@Balki @Bo @rdr please indicate your top scum

That's me done for the day.

@Worcej good luck.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Let's not spend more time talking about whether the VT-claims should vote.

##vote Bo

I would also be excited about flipping rdrivera and Chaqa.

My point is that the vote tonight is practically meaningless. The town clears will decide who is chopped, so a vote has no consequence and should not be used to try to unpair anyone.

It is much more important for the VT-claims to try to solve the game. Go back and re-read. Share things that you notice. If you are town, you just learned a great deal of information you did not have before. You've been given 4 big clues (Bunny is town, worcej is town, koala is town, lfischl is scum). Use those clues and solve the game. You may only have a few hours left to do so.

[worcej]

The paradox of mafia: sometimes it is seen as more scummy to vote scum than to not vote scum.

That is the down side of being a known busser as mafia.

Literally ever mafia player is a busser.

I have played in over 60 mafia games, I have a reputation for doing *everything* at this point.

No, but the game of you and kgray openly bussing each other multiple phases is definitely above the average scum player.

Stop being defensive about being a loose cannon - it's what makes you good at this game, but comes with the downside of we always give you a sideways glance.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I understand that, of course.

My point is that the three cleared town should select the chop target for tomorrow. They should make that choice during the night so that, if we stick with it, Gambler would receive an item.

I don’t think it matters who the non-clears “vote for” tonight. But for non-clears, this may be your last opportunity to solve the game. Go back and re-read with all of the new info you have. Make your case.

I think the voting exercise Is important because if we follow with this then next day we won't have a "real" voting. Also, letting the clears choose the DK is a great way for scum just to avoid producing any new info.

Good point. Shift => town for rdr.

Also the PRs might vote for 3 different vts.

Please all vote.

I do not think this post reflects good logic.

Why have you given rdrivera town points for his argument? You don't think it is an argument that would come from scum? A town player is not the only kind of player who can make a good point. And I don't even think this was a good point.

And the idea that the three PRs might vote for different VTs is just incredibly suboptimal. The PRs will vote together. If they do not, they are ceding disproportionate control of the game to scum.

Do not spend your time telling people to engage in a meaningless vote. Spend your time solving the game and telling us why certain people are more likely scum or more likely town.

[worcej]

Good point. Shift => town for rdr.

Also the PRs might vote for 3 different vts.

Please all vote.

Why clears should vote for different VTs? I think the best option is for them no not vote at all, until closer to EON/EOD and let the suspects (us VTs) vote each other, then they can reach a consensus or vote whoever they want. Probably need to be done with some time before EON for gambler adjust his gamble (that could be the last by the way).

I'm not saying they should, I'm saying they might which would give gambler a headache. Worcej and Koala waiting for rest of VTs to vote first probably a good idea.

I don't see how you think any of us would vote off the same block here. We're inching closer to MiLo, the time of consensus amongst clears is pretty much mandatory and was part of the process on D3

[BunnyGo]

This still feels like town!Damo to me. No major justification, just feels.

[damo666]

Let's not spend more time talking about whether the VT-claims should vote.

##vote Bo

I would also be excited about flipping rdrivera and Chaqa.

My point is that the vote tonight is practically meaningless. The town clears will decide who is chopped, so a vote has no consequence and should not be used to try to unpair anyone.

It is much more important for the VT-claims to try to solve the game. Go back and re-read. Share things that you notice. If you are town, you just learned a great deal of information you did not have before. You've been given 4 big clues (Bunny is town, worcej is town, koala is town, lfischl is scum). Use those clues and solve the game. You may only have a few hours left to do so.

You think scum will NK a vt?