MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

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Balki Bartokomous
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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1721 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:36 pm

worcej wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:30 pm
Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role
If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1722 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm

I'll work out for you what happens if bo does come back and claim PR:

Then we have 4 PR claimants, and only 3 Actual PRs.

3 of us are telling the truth, and at most one is lying.

So from your POV, at most 1 of worcej, me, and bo can be scum (no matter what bo claims).

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1723 Post by worcej » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm
Correction to my reason (1) Strongman should be Toughguy.
Possible. I just assumed they would also save it for me whenever they want because it can avoid having to play save-chicken with me

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1724 Post by KoalaAttack » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:33 pm
So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?
Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1725 Post by damo666 » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:38 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:55 pm
damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:54 pm

A non-specfic PR claimant voting another non-specific PR claimant when there are only 3 PR claimants is bizarre in the extreme.
I don't understand. It's only bizarre in the extreme if you believe everyone's claims, no? But aren't at least 3 claims lies, like, by definition?

I mean, if you just believe the claims, I seriously don't get how this game works. Say I am Mafia next time – why wouldn't I just hardclaim Doctor ASAP? I think I'm missing something here.
Yes, three claims are lies and they lie within the vt claimants. There are three town PRs and 3 claimants (possibly 4 if you include bo) so a max of 1 scum there. No town would have lied, it would be to town's disadvantage.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1726 Post by KoalaAttack » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:39 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:33 pm
So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?
Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1727 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:40 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:33 pm
So to summarize my understanding – I see the current reasoning, and the implied 2 assumptions supporting it are:

(1) no PR in their right mind would ever claim VT in the mass-claim scenario
(2) Bo will claim VT

Correct?
Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.
Even better...we let scum figure out the lying PR for us. They don't want to leave PRs alive. So we find the 2 (but really 3) scum in the VT pool for today.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1728 Post by Balki Bartokomous » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:40 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:39 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm


Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.
Yes. Assumption (1) is reasonable and the right assumption to make.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1729 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:41 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:39 pm
KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:37 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:35 pm


Correct!

Cool, thank you.

In that case, I agree with folks who are saying that we really do need Bo (or a sub) to reply with enough time before the day ends for others to read & process.

And a (perhaps stupid) question to the group – is Assumption (1) reasonable to make based on your prior Mafia experience? It certainly makes sense to me, just want to double-check that practice matches the theory.
Let's play out what happens in that case. Say (for example) that damo is really a PR.

Now in a day or so we start voting him. He announces "No no! *I'm* really the watcher after all!" Who will believe him? We'll kill him for sure that day. Then we get a miskill we can't afford. AND for the previous time we've been working with bad assumptions as a group.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1730 Post by KoalaAttack » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm

Great, makes perfect sense. Cheers. Temporary

##vote bo_sox48

until such time that Bo contributes their claim.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1731 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm

Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:36 pm
worcej wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:30 pm
Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role
If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.
Why leave the doctor alive at all?

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1732 Post by Chaqa » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm

This is an exhausting conversation to read.

All three of you are PRs.

Worcej is Doctor.
Koala is a totally mysterious role
Bunny is ???

Unless bo comes in CCing, we don't need to worry about this.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1733 Post by Chaqa » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:45 pm

Welp, feels embarassing to crosspost that with you guys wrapping it up. lmao

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1734 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:36 pm
worcej wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:30 pm
Throwing this out there now: I wasn’t RB’ed, so my gut is the scum roles are the Ninja, strongarm, and fake doctor role
If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.
Why leave the doctor alive at all?
Fear of watcher!chaqa?

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1735 Post by damo666 » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:48 pm

Ditto my unnecessary post. Hadn't read all the explanations.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1736 Post by damo666 » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm
Balki Bartokomous wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:36 pm


If I were scum, I’d be much more worried about Tracker and Watcher than Doctor though. I probably wouldn’t RB the Doctor there even if I could, especially while killing a non-PR claimer who was a somewhat unlikely save target.
Why leave the doctor alive at all?
Fear of watcher!chaqa?
Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1737 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:52 pm

damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm


Why leave the doctor alive at all?
Fear of watcher!chaqa?
Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.
My last post at night sort of addressed this:

If watcher!chaqa and worcej targeted each other, one of them was guaranteed to succeed.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1738 Post by KoalaAttack » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:53 pm

damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:44 pm


Why leave the doctor alive at all?
Fear of watcher!chaqa?
Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.
Again, sorry if this is naive because I'm new, but:

But the mass claim business happened after the night was over. So during the night they would only have a maybe-Watcher maybe-protected by a maybe-Doctor and/or maybe-watching the maybe-Doctor.

And wouldn't the WIFOM approach be "let them waste the mutual Watching/Healing on each other while we take out someone else?"

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1739 Post by damo666 » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:53 pm

BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:52 pm
damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm


Fear of watcher!chaqa?
Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.
My last post at night sort of addressed this:

If watcher!chaqa and worcej targeted each other, one of them was guaranteed to succeed.
but worcej was scumreading Chaqa? He'd hardly save him.

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Re: MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

#1740 Post by BunnyGo » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:55 pm

KoalaAttack wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:53 pm
damo666 wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:46 pm


Fear of watcher!chaqa?
Then why not kill Chaqa? I keep coming back to this.
Again, sorry if this is naive because I'm new, but:

But the mass claim business happened after the night was over. So during the night they would only have a maybe-Watcher maybe-protected by a maybe-Doctor and/or maybe-watching the maybe-Doctor.

And wouldn't the WIFOM approach be "let them waste the mutual Watching/Healing on each other while we take out someone else?"
excellent reasoning. That's roughly what I'm arguing too.

If that argument is what really happened, then Chaqa is town because scum would not know he was lying.

There's another reason that damo is advocating for (reasonably): Chaqa is scum, and so scum COULDN'T target him, and if they HAD targeted worcej, we'd all say "CHAQA CHAQA, WHAT'D YOU SEE?!?!"

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