MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[Balki Bartokomous]

Once we mass claim, we will know immediately in which buckets the scum claimed.

If scum claims PR, we might even want to claim specific roles, and we may be able to narrow it down to a specific CC.

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that this is optimal. Mass claim today. Start by claiming VT or PR. Figure out in which buckets scum claimed, and then we're going to be able to root them out a lot easier.

It's better to wait for this kind of thing, but with Damo's VT claim, and a few hard or soft PR claims out there, I don't think we have too much of a "hide PRs for tonight" advantage left.

[BunnyGo]

Here is why I would not wait until tomorrow:

We will have at least two deaths between today and tomorrow. Scum do not know yet who those two deaths will be, or what buckets they will be in. I want to force scum to choose what buckets to claim in now so we can make decisions about what buckets to narrow in order to find town clears.

The main advantage from waiting is to keep PRs hidden another night, but there are enough claims out there now that scum probably have enough info to have a good chance at shooting and killing a PR tonight anyway.

Is this a scum slip?

I am not sold on it if you’re thinking of what I think you’re thinking of, but in case you’re not then please share with the class.

I’m not sold either. But the way he wrote about scum having enough info to shoot and kill a PR seems like he knows worcej is doctor. And maybe that they have a hooker after all.

[Balki Bartokomous]

People who have agreed to be here and claim their role at exactly 10:00 am PT
1. Balki
2. Damo
3. Worcej
4. Chaqa
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

Stop claiming.

This is not a list for claiming. It is a list for agreement that we should claim. I do not recognize the claims that we have already received. They don't count.

[rdrivera2005]

So it seems there's no hooker? Most of the way through D2 and nobody claimed RB'd, and nobody did that vague "should we claim if we were RB'd?" question they get when they are Vanilla Town and get the RB message.

Other (less likely) options:

Scum thought HB was doctor and would self-save, so they RB'd him.

Someone was roleblocked and decided not to share that information with the class.

The Hooker decided to take a night off.

Good question. I'd forgotten.

RB/kill seems incredibly likely to me given that the kill looked PR-hunty and the existence of a roleblock is valuable info. Why don't you feel that way?

I hadn’t considered strongly enough the scum team would be intentionally hiding the hooker. It’s not THAT much information. If (for example) they suspected chaqa was really claiming, then RBing him is much more crucial.

I might be undervaluing the play though.

With a Watcher and CWV possibly in play I don't think scum will want to make many visits. If there is a RBer probably using him to RB and kill the NK is the best choice.

[ghug]

The shocking thing here is Damo being so blunt in “public” about this makes me want to town him over anything else.

Ofc I'm town.

I don't think Koala is gambler (he wants to sacrifice himself) and don't give any town points to Damo for pointing this.

I agree with the first point but I'm kinda leaning town on damo for it.

[ghug]

FWIW I think ghug is probably not town.

Then let’s get a better second wagon going.

##vote Ghug

Please at least stylize my name properly if you're going to make bad votes.

[bo_sox48]

Is this a scum slip?

I am not sold on it if you’re thinking of what I think you’re thinking of, but in case you’re not then please share with the class.

I’m not sold either. But the way he wrote about scum having enough info to shoot and kill a PR seems like he knows worcej is doctor. And maybe that they have a hooker after all.

I did not think about the last part.

Interesting.

[ghug]

At the moment from a tpov there are 3 scum from 11.

If we massclaim we are in a better position whatever scum claim.

I suggest we massclaim NOW before mafia have a chance to coordinate. There is a significant chance mafia will select sub-optimally.

I HARDCLAIM VT

Stop

[bo_sox48]

People who have agreed to be here and claim their role at exactly 10:00 am PT
1. Balki
2. Damo
3. Worcej
4. Chaqa
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

Stop claiming.

This is not a list for claiming. It is a list for agreement that we should claim. I do not recognize the claims that we have already received. They don't count.

So you aren’t confident that worcej is the doctor?

[ghug]

I think that enough cats are out of enough bags that we should mass claim. This is especially true here where we may have items (guns, etc.) that we can give to our clear townies, should we get any from this exercise.

I would suggest that we claim in an organized way. Either (a) we set an order here in this thread and insist that people claim in that order, or else (b) we set a time when everyone is available and we claim at that exact time.

I am pretty sure that (b) is preferable, but only if we can coordinate it and everyone is available at the same time. And if we do this, the sooner the better.

I am going to propose right now that we do a mass claim in 1 hour and 48 minutes, at 10:00 am PT. Please confirm that you agree and are available at that time.

I disagree and am not available at that time.

[bozotheclown]

As if me jokingly claiming my role early when no one would believe it isn't something I would do.

I literally told brain he caught me as being Godfather once on day 1 or something and I never died.

If you are the watcher, I do not think it was helpful in this setup to be vague about it, and if you are not the watcher and are town, I do not think there is a good reason to risk revealing the watcher through a CC.

[ghug]

I think that enough cats are out of enough bags that we should mass claim. This is especially true here where we may have items (guns, etc.) that we can give to our clear townies, should we get any from this exercise.

I would suggest that we claim in an organized way. Either (a) we set an order here in this thread and insist that people claim in that order, or else (b) we set a time when everyone is available and we claim at that exact time.

I am pretty sure that (b) is preferable, but only if we can coordinate it and everyone is available at the same time. And if we do this, the sooner the better.

I am going to propose right now that we do a mass claim in 1 hour and 48 minutes, at 10:00 am PT. Please confirm that you agree and are available at that time.

I think we should scumhunt, as we have been doing, more and PR hunt less. Even if we mass claim the scumteam will just be claiming VT here; they have much more room to hide among the vanilla group than the PR claimant we already know about and the softer claims that will be much more obvious when they are ready to be. Save this for D3.

I agree with this but it's also a huge dogwhistle if we do end up mass claiming.

[Balki Bartokomous]

So you aren’t confident that worcej is the doctor?

All of us here at Balki Bartokomous thank you for your question. We will answer in due time.

[ghug]

Okay, Bo is not going to claim.

I still think it is optimal to go forward and do this even without Bo.

If there is more dissent about why this is a good idea, I'd be happy to explain why Bo's protest is misguided. But if there is a consensus among non-Bos to do this, then I would still like to go ahead.

You say “fuck you, your wife, children, dog, and entire extended family” to me much more eloquently than ghug does.

I've learned I need to keep it simple or you'll miss it.

[bo_sox48]

So you aren’t confident that worcej is the doctor?

All of us here at Balki Bartokomous thank you for your question. We will answer in due time.

You already did

[Balki Bartokomous]

I really think we should mass claim. I feel strongly about it. Who wants to discuss?

[ghug]

Here is why I would not wait until tomorrow:

We will have at least two deaths between today and tomorrow. Scum do not know yet who those two deaths will be, or what buckets they will be in. I want to force scum to choose what buckets to claim in now so we can make decisions about what buckets to narrow in order to find town clears.

The main advantage from waiting is to keep PRs hidden another night, but there are enough claims out there now that scum probably have enough info to have a good chance at shooting and killing a PR tonight anyway.

This strikes me as more overeager puppy dog energy than malicious.

[bo_sox48]

I think that enough cats are out of enough bags that we should mass claim. This is especially true here where we may have items (guns, etc.) that we can give to our clear townies, should we get any from this exercise.

I would suggest that we claim in an organized way. Either (a) we set an order here in this thread and insist that people claim in that order, or else (b) we set a time when everyone is available and we claim at that exact time.

I am pretty sure that (b) is preferable, but only if we can coordinate it and everyone is available at the same time. And if we do this, the sooner the better.

I am going to propose right now that we do a mass claim in 1 hour and 48 minutes, at 10:00 am PT. Please confirm that you agree and are available at that time.

I think we should scumhunt, as we have been doing, more and PR hunt less. Even if we mass claim the scumteam will just be claiming VT here; they have much more room to hide among the vanilla group than the PR claimant we already know about and the softer claims that will be much more obvious when they are ready to be. Save this for D3.

I agree with this but it's also a huge dogwhistle if we do end up mass claiming.

I don’t feel like the mafia team has any reason to listen to me, but if they do then I apologize for hiding their stupidity because this one isn’t exactly hard to figure out on their own

[ghug]

We could join you on ghug instead.

Sure. I just want 2-3 leading wagons that don’t include our PR claims on day 2. You know…it’s the little things.

I never really had any intention of keeping Chaqa up top, but I saw an opportunity to help worcej get his head back in the game and took it

##VOTE ghug

Explain this, please.

You were quick to jump on the "I'm glad someone else finally sees it" train when votes started coming, but there's been suspicion of me for a while and none of it had come from you.

[bo_sox48]

Sure. I just want 2-3 leading wagons that don’t include our PR claims on day 2. You know…it’s the little things.

I never really had any intention of keeping Chaqa up top, but I saw an opportunity to help worcej get his head back in the game and took it

##VOTE ghug

Explain this, please.

You were quick to jump on the "I'm glad someone else finally sees it" train when votes started coming, but there's been suspicion of me for a while and none of it had come from you.

If I throw suspicion at you I have to talk to you so I’d rather just keep it in my head until I’m confident it may matter