MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

The greater picture doesn't need to be connections. It can be a pattern in one person's behavior or even an attempt at finding meaning or motivation behind something you're commenting on. Your whole approach to this game is very drive-by.

I would argue I've been consistent with my style and approach to any game and people have chosen to not engage in the ideas I've presented, or at least the dialogue has been fairly curt - such as the Balki initial claim.

Your position is at least a position worthy of commentary - Chaqa is being worthless in actual content generation but just happens to agree with you to kill me and the australian bear person meme is just OMGUS'ing me. This isn't substance - it's just I am the next name on a random list of players.

You're not Chaqa. I expect different behavior from the two of you anyway. I also don't particularly townread Chaqa.

I'm not whinning like he is - I am more arguing against your position of being "drive-by"ey because if there isn't any substance for me to comment on then I am not going to be able to really engage with it in any other way than to call it out for the lack of substance.

[ghug]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Oh no this is classic bad worcej

[Balki Bartokomous]

So you think that my role claim makes me more likely to be scum?

Which Town PRs do you think I’m afraid of?

And when you say hammer me, do you really mean hammer me?

[Balki Bartokomous]

And to be clear, are you hammering me because you think I’m using my power sub-optimally, or are you hammering me because my role claim would be so dumb as Town that you don’t think Town!Balki would do it?

[worcej]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

Awesome!

How come?

Kind of cross posted, but even more of my analysis:

If you actually are the CWV then there was only 2 town actions that could target you while the scum could have up to 3 actions that can target players. Scum were at a distinct disadvantage to use their non-killing PRs that you just re-enabled the use of.

Let's get more fringe here too: let's say your town and faking it to increase the odds of scum hitting a real CWV - this is also worse then just staying quiet because you also increase the odds (though only a minor amount) of the two town PR roles of stumbling into the actual CVW (if it exists).

So, in a nut shell:
If you're the CWV - you helped scum out, which is bad.
If you're town and lying - you may have hurt the town for no reason, which is bad.
If you're scum and faking it, you're already bad.

Balki is bad.
QED.

[worcej]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Oh no this is classic bad worcej

A broken clock is right twice a day - eventually I'm going to be right about someone doing some fringe shit during a game instead of getting it right as the doctor (which I've done twice in my "career" lol...)

[Balki Bartokomous]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

Awesome!

How come?

Kind of cross posted, but even more of my analysis:

If you actually are the CWV then there was only 2 town actions that could target you while the scum could have up to 3 actions that can target players. Scum were at a distinct disadvantage to use their non-killing PRs that you just re-enabled the use of.

Let's get more fringe here too: let's say your town and faking it to increase the odds of scum hitting a real CWV - this is also worse then just staying quiet because you also increase the odds (though only a minor amount) of the two town PR roles of stumbling into the actual CVW (if it exists).

So, in a nut shell:
If you're the CWV - you helped scum out, which is bad.
If you're town and lying - you may have hurt the town for no reason, which is bad.
If you're scum and faking it, you're already bad.

Balki is bad.
QED.

I’m actually a very nice man.

[worcej]

And to be clear, are you hammering me because you think I’m using my power sub-optimally, or are you hammering me because my role claim would be so dumb as Town that you don’t think Town!Balki would do it?

The second one more than anything. I think it was too sub-optimum for you to issue the claim and the best play, while being slightly risky, was to just sit on it.

[worcej]

Awesome!

How come?

Kind of cross posted, but even more of my analysis:

If you actually are the CWV then there was only 2 town actions that could target you while the scum could have up to 3 actions that can target players. Scum were at a distinct disadvantage to use their non-killing PRs that you just re-enabled the use of.

Let's get more fringe here too: let's say your town and faking it to increase the odds of scum hitting a real CWV - this is also worse then just staying quiet because you also increase the odds (though only a minor amount) of the two town PR roles of stumbling into the actual CVW (if it exists).

So, in a nut shell:
If you're the CWV - you helped scum out, which is bad.
If you're town and lying - you may have hurt the town for no reason, which is bad.
If you're scum and faking it, you're already bad.

Balki is bad.
QED.

I’m actually a very nice man.

It isn't hard to be a nice bad man.

[Chaqa]

Half of you will sus me anyway, so using me for this idea is going to safe some headache later.

When is the old Chaqa who was fun to play mafia with coming back?

This shell of low energy and meh engagement is growing old.

I did the high effort thing for awhile and people still acted like “hurr durr Chaqa bad” thing so why bother

[ghug]

Awesome!

How come?

Kind of cross posted, but even more of my analysis:

If you actually are the CWV then there was only 2 town actions that could target you while the scum could have up to 3 actions that can target players. Scum were at a distinct disadvantage to use their non-killing PRs that you just re-enabled the use of.

Let's get more fringe here too: let's say your town and faking it to increase the odds of scum hitting a real CWV - this is also worse then just staying quiet because you also increase the odds (though only a minor amount) of the two town PR roles of stumbling into the actual CVW (if it exists).

So, in a nut shell:
If you're the CWV - you helped scum out, which is bad.
If you're town and lying - you may have hurt the town for no reason, which is bad.
If you're scum and faking it, you're already bad.

Balki is bad.
QED.

I’m actually a very nice man.

He bought me beer it's true.

[rdrivera2005]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

[Balki Bartokomous]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

You missed the QED post. That one shows that in any possible scenario, "Balki is bad."

But I don't want to kill worcej any time soon. I think he's fun.

[worcej]

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

You missed the QED post. That one shows that in any possible scenario, "Balki is bad."

But I don't want to kill worcej any time soon. I think he's fun.

Should I be concerned now?

[rdrivera2005]

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

You missed the QED post. That one shows that in any possible scenario, "Balki is bad."

But I don't want to kill worcej any time soon. I think he's fun.

I saw it. I also don't want to kill Worcej, he is usually much better when he is scum.

[ghug]

Yeah that sequence looks more townie. ##VOTE lfischl

[worcej]

My honest opinion atm is we should hammer Balki Day 2

To expand on this, in my eyes:

1. If Balki is town and is the CWV, then his claim was more beneficial for scum then town. Your only power (that is to help your team) in that role is to kill an accidental scum player and the scum's power against you must be chosen to activate once per game. By flagging your existence, you're now providing even more information to the scum team to plan their attack and push to the victory.
2. The more impressive play, that I 100% believe Balki is capable of executing, is fake claiming the role as scum because it will stop any town PRs from targetting you and creates a "shield" of town players refusing to flip him because he could be telling the truth.

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

I did address it after this post - the summary of that position is he improved the mafia's chances to hit actual PRs and gamble on if we have a CWV or not that could possibly be stumbled into, which was already the case for scum so he didn't improve the situation at all.

The gamble Balki would take here is hoping he doesn't get a CC from an actual CWV, which I think is rather gutsy and again did not actually improve the town position here, so I believe he's either the CWV for scum well above him actually being a VT and lying because it would make no sense to do that.

[worcej]

Why aren't you considering the possibility he is town and NOT the CWV?

You missed the QED post. That one shows that in any possible scenario, "Balki is bad."

But I don't want to kill worcej any time soon. I think he's fun.

I saw it. I also don't want to kill Worcej, he is usually much better when he is scum.

Ooof? lol

[worcej]

Half of you will sus me anyway, so using me for this idea is going to safe some headache later.

When is the old Chaqa who was fun to play mafia with coming back?

This shell of low energy and meh engagement is growing old.

I did the high effort thing for awhile and people still acted like “hurr durr Chaqa bad” thing so why bother

Yeah, but to be fair most of those people have vanished and are off causing chaos elsewhere.

Right now, it's rather bothersome to watch you just be a Grinch of Mafia and doing next to nothing while this dark cloud lingers over you.

[Hamilton Brian]

No...you again misread: I was saying it as if I was you. I think you're scum and driving this whole night voting thing so scum can kill our night vote and f*** the gambler.

Hey now all! Just checking in here.

Bunny, from the exchange with Balki, I take it you're not a fan of the night vote/gambler idea.