MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[yavuzovic]

There is a 1 in 4 chance there is a CWV and no tough guy, which would be a good combination for us.

I think an argument can be made for the CWV, if there is one, to claim before N1 is over to prevent accidental town kills, but that would also give up the chance for the CWV to take out a mafia. I think I would stay hidden as the CWV, in my opinion the problems a hidden CWV cause the mafia are worth the risk.

I think it is fair to stay hidden, but in this case doc and watcher should play safe, like repeating between two players. Gunsmith can delay the gun distribution a little bit. Mafia has to switch targets as long as they kill so this leaves us in a situation where mafia is disadvantaged. This advantage applies at N3 though. Still, I think it is considerable.
Another point is that we can agree on a round where we ask CWV to claim. Then we get a clean townsperson at the very least. (Assuming there is only one claim). Mafia either can't kill CWV or may not want to kill because even if tough guy survives the night, they will lose one night protection from guns.

[yavuzovic]

I am Civil War Veteran. I think the benefit of me claiming now outweighs the cost. I think I'm a reasonably to draw a visit from Town, and it's not worth the gamble.

If you think my choice to claim on Day 1 is dumb, let's talk about it in the AAR. It's done now.

Oh. Okay I didn't see that.
What is AAR?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I am Civil War Veteran. I think the benefit of me claiming now outweighs the cost. I think I'm a reasonably to draw a visit from Town, and it's not worth the gamble.

If you think my choice to claim on Day 1 is dumb, let's talk about it in the AAR. It's done now.

Oh. Okay I didn't see that.
What is AAR?

AAR means After Action Report. It is another name for post-game discussion. I just don’t want to distract the game with a discussion about whether my claim was the right thing to do. We can talk about that at the end of the game.

[yavuzovic]

I am Civil War Veteran. I think the benefit of me claiming now outweighs the cost. I think I'm a reasonably to draw a visit from Town, and it's not worth the gamble.

If you think my choice to claim on Day 1 is dumb, let's talk about it in the AAR. It's done now.

Oh. Okay I didn't see that.
What is AAR?

AAR means After Action Report. It is another name for post-game discussion. I just don’t want to distract the game with a discussion about whether my claim was the right thing to do. We can talk about that at the end of the game.

I see. Thank you for explaining. Whatever you are planning, I hope it works out.

[bo_sox48]

##VOTE lfischl

Would like to see the quiet folks speak their minds given that there is actually something of note to talk about today.

[lfischl]

##VOTE lfischl

Would like to see the quiet folks speak their minds given that there is actually something of note to talk about today.

Sorry was very busy today, for the balki claim I said something earlier, I don’t like it, but I do think he is probably town. Seems very defensive though, I don’t understand why he won’t talk about claiming it at all

[ghug]

##VOTE lfischl

Would like to see the quiet folks speak their minds given that there is actually something of note to talk about today.

Sorry was very busy today, for the balki claim I said something earlier, I don’t like it, but I do think he is probably town. Seems very defensive though, I don’t understand why he won’t talk about claiming it at all

Classic fishy

[bo_sox48]

##VOTE lfischl

Would like to see the quiet folks speak their minds given that there is actually something of note to talk about today.

Sorry was very busy today, for the balki claim I said something earlier, I don’t like it, but I do think he is probably town. Seems very defensive though, I don’t understand why he won’t talk about claiming it at all

Is it a coincidence that your posts this game so far are:

- replying to Balki
- calling Balki defensive
- reiterating to me that Balki is defensive

I would like to know more, perhaps including but not limited to your preferred steak temperature.

[bozotheclown]

[


There is a 1 in 4 chance there is a CWV and no tough guy, which would be a good combination for us.

I think an argument can be made for the CWV, if there is one, to claim before N1 is over to prevent accidental town kills, but that would also give up the chance for the CWV to take out a mafia. I think I would stay hidden as the CWV, in my opinion the problems a hidden CWV cause the mafia are worth the risk.

Thanks for spelling that out; it's a starting point even though it's abhorrent to me.

What part is abhorrent?

[bozotheclown]

Ikaras cu se ractu gi'e mitcre le mitselskicni be le mitselxaioni . ca le vofli gi'e le caxmati cu carvi gi'e ca le carvi cu cenba lo vlina gi'e lo djacu . le skicu cu se sutra se kansa le fadni be le zabna gi'e le nelci be le verba

I came away with Icarus and verb. Any pointers to actual language? I'm failing here.

lojban (in tribute to xorxes)

[bozotheclown]

I am Civil War Veteran. I think the benefit of me claiming now outweighs the cost. I think I'm a reasonably to draw a visit from Town, and it's not worth the gamble.

If you think my choice to claim on Day 1 is dumb, let's talk about it in the AAR. It's done now.

Just after Bozo made a statement as to WHY NOT to claim. Nice way to stir up the posting for the day.

Balki is town. It is a benefit to town for them to claim because...?
Balki is town. It is NOT a benefit to town for them to claim because...?

or

Balki is mafia. same questions apply.

Is this a survey? You did not differentiate on the claim being real or fake as town.

town/real claim benefit: avoid town visits resulting in accidental town deaths
town/real claim detriment: mafia can avoid kill by CWV visit
town/fake claim benefit: confuse mafia, possibly draw tough guy visit
town/fake claim detriment: confuse town, slightly more likely for town to visit a possible real CWV
mafia/claim benefit: avoid town visits, potentially draw out real CWV
mafia/claim detriment: looks suspicious when claim is revealed as fake

[ghug]

I came away with Icarus and verb. Any pointers to actual language? I'm failing here.

lojban (in tribute to xorxes)

What was it meant to mean? La traduko de mia komputilo estis maladekvata.

[bozotheclown]

I am Civil War Veteran. I think the benefit of me claiming now outweighs the cost. I think I'm a reasonably to draw a visit from Town, and it's not worth the gamble.

If you think my choice to claim on Day 1 is dumb, let's talk about it in the AAR. It's done now.

Just after Bozo made a statement as to WHY NOT to claim. Nice way to stir up the posting for the day.

Balki is town. It is a benefit to town for them to claim because...?
Balki is town. It is NOT a benefit to town for them to claim because...?

or

Balki is mafia. same questions apply.

I don't know if Balki claim is true or not but I strongly think he is town. Don't see any reason for scum to fake claim about it at this moment. Don't know if the claim is a benefit for town, it depends on a lot of variables, but it's a good way to be sure you stay alive longer, which I can see Balki thinking it's a huge benefit (to him).

I think there are potential benefits as mafia, especially if it gets town credit as something mafia would be unlikely to do.

[ghug]

lojban (in tribute to xorxes)

What was it meant to mean? La traduko de mia komputilo estis maladekvata.

Ah fuck, I can't believe you've done this.

[bozotheclown]

@ghug I think it's interesting that Bozo picked up on what I had done, so he's reading thoroughly. Probably town.

Others.. hmmm

Close reading is not something I find alignment indicative from Bozo.

I can confirm I read the thread regardless of alignment.

I think Chaqa was pointing out that some players missed the reference and took our posts literally:

ghug seems to be trying to mislead the group by providing false information or distracting from the real issues at hand.

Chaqa is consistently trying to manipulate the group's decision-making process by sowing confusion and discord.

but is that TAI for Chaqa? :thinkingface:

ghug seems to be trying to mislead the group by providing false information or distracting from the real issues at hand.

Chaqa is consistently trying to manipulate the group's decision-making process by sowing confusion and discord.

The Chaqa post did seem to come out of no where in my opinion, but that makes me more likely to town him D1 then scum him.

[bozotheclown]

ghug seems to be trying to mislead the group by providing false information or distracting from the real issues at hand.

Chaqa is consistently trying to manipulate the group's decision-making process by sowing confusion and discord.

but is that TAI for Chaqa? :thinkingface:

That post was meant as a joke.

[bozotheclown]

ghug seems to be trying to mislead the group by providing false information or distracting from the real issues at hand.

Chaqa is consistently trying to manipulate the group's decision-making process by sowing confusion and discord.

The Chaqa post did seem to come out of no where in my opinion, but that makes me more likely to town him D1 then scum him.

My post was meant as a joke, and I assume Chaqa's post was as well.

[bozotheclown]

@ghug I think it's interesting that Bozo picked up on what I had done, so he's reading thoroughly. Probably town.

Others.. hmmm

Is it just me or is the most common thing in mafia on this site for someone to say “I think X is Y because of how they responded to me/voted for me/read me” - it makes it so easy to be pocketed.

I think bo makes a very brave and valid point here.

I think ghug is town because of how they validated bo_sox's post.

[bozotheclown]

R1. Basically every argument for or against before still applies, but there are added considerations.

Scum knows Balki's alignment, so either:

He's scum, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions. It could also be baiting a counterclaim if Balki thinks the vet claiming is a bad call.

He's town, in which case the claim's purpose is to buy Balki some cover from early votes and night actions, while potentially drawing a kill from the mafia either knowing that he will likely kill one of them back or that they'll have wasted a kill on a vanilla townie. I don't think a counterclaim is significantly more appealing than claiming was to begin with because there's no certainly Balki is scum even if he's not the vet.

Thanks for breaking it down like that.

Reminds me of a game from a couple of years ago. I pulled doctor. Somewhere in the middle of the game Ezio declares, "I'm the doctor." I'm thinking, "No you effing are not!" I'm all giddy because I'm thinking that we caught a confirmed scum when in reality, they were probably playing to bait it out. They never explained it to me post-game so I can only surmise it fits your town scenario.

It certainly has given us a lot more to talk about and I think ultimately buys Balki time at night.

Fake claiming doctor as town is usually not a good idea. I tried to find the game you were talking about, and I think it was M64. That game involved everyone choosing their role given 2 choices, and Ezio falsely claimed to have not chosen the doctor role, and almost got DKed for doing it.

[pyxxy]

Chaqa is consistently trying to manipulate the group's decision-making process by sowing confusion and discord.

but is that TAI for Chaqa? :thinkingface:

That post was meant as a joke.

As was mine.