M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[Kakarroto]

Sprinkle whatever doubts you have about the three people who I believe are town. Considering the circumstances, I doubt there is a major conspiracy going on here.

And, if you’re sitting here and are town and are doubting damo’s authenticity - if you never vocalized your pets, you’re less credible then him in my eyes.

well since you will have no vote tomorrow if you are actually the dog, I think I'm good, you've hurt town enough.

Also, if you actually have read my posts and understood them, I think bozo is much more likely mafia than damo. Sure both could be maf or town, but when had I damo this game as more likely mafia than bozo?

Also, if you still think giving information about the pets is towny, I think I can't help you anymore. I've tried so many different approaches to make the situation clear to you. But as I said, lets wait for god qt, when you hopefully notice I argue from good faith.

[worcej]

Sprinkle whatever doubts you have about the three people who I believe are town. Considering the circumstances, I doubt there is a major conspiracy going on here.

And, if you’re sitting here and are town and are doubting damo’s authenticity - if you never vocalized your pets, you’re less credible then him in my eyes.

well since you will have no vote tomorrow if you are actually the dog, I think I'm good, you've hurt town enough.

Also, if you actually have read my posts and understood them, I think bozo is much more likely mafia than damo. Sure both could be maf or town, but when had I damo this game as more likely mafia than bozo?

Also, if you still think giving information about the pets is towny, I think I can't help you anymore. I've tried so many different approaches to make the situation clear to you. But as I said, lets wait for god qt, when you hopefully notice I argue from good faith.

You argue in good faith, I just think your argument is flawed.

[Kakarroto]

Would you rather had me make no claim at all and possibly just died or claimed?

I’ll choose claim every single time. Also, shitty claims is kinda my thing lol

if you had OPENED YOUR EYES, you would've NOTICED what I wrote about NOT WANTING TO VOTE YOU FOR TODAY. I also tried to signal you by asking lfischl what he thought about people, including you. So even if bozo, damo and lfischl were mafia, they would still openly helped not to vote you and rescue you. There was no world where you would've been the target today, well, maybe if there was a gigantic mess up, but alright. So I'm pretty sure the claim was unnecessary to save you.

But yeah, spilt milk and all. Though if I could figure it out, I'm sure the mafia already knew too. That's why I said that survey is bad because the dog will be revealed.

Maybe that's a topic for god qt, not much sense in talking about it now.

YOU WERE ONLY ONE VOTE - Bo and Chaqa had a decent chance to swap onto me. We can sit here and micro-dissect this for eternity but ultimately it doesn’t matter - I had been a discussion as a flip choice by 4 different people throughout the phase. The arrow was pointing at me and I was still in danger.

You’re fundamentally wrong about the survey because the mechanic exists for the mafia to use to randomly find me too, so using it in a pro-town manner and trying to share information is actually an incredibly smart play.

bozo, damo, lfischl, yourself and me ... that are 5 votes that would've been there to save the dog. How many people are alive and have a vote?

The big problem here is that the mafia has access to the same information and can use it on top of their information gathering to find the dog ... but as I said, lets save that for the god qt.

[bozotheclown]

@eden I was sitting here practically on coals, wasn't sure if something bad happened to you, sure it's argh that we needed to wait so long but at least nothing bad happened to you.

anyway:

damo said he did pet worcej N1 and bozo N2 - however, he said this on D2 after 6 people said their pets. He could easily fudged this. With bozo petting ghug N1 and worcej N2 as well as lfischl who petted me N1 and worcej N2 those can't be mafia, right?

Well, imagine a world where mafia is bozo, lfischl, damo; imagine they found the dog N2. Bozo and lfischl could just insert this pet officially, they don't need to lie, they can just get you in the night, they might even get town points for trying to save you not to be the target for D3; imagine if maf damo knows this and changes the pet to N1 and just inserts a teammate as N2. Not that he needs to at this point since he would know who the dog is but still. The only risk would've been on N1 that I was the dog, but it was a small risk mathematically.

I'm not saying that this scenario has happened, but it's possible, so worcej your hardclaim on EoD wasn't so effective as you thought. It's still possible every single one of them is mafia. You needed to wait for the reveal to clear other people.

Also, bozo, if you thought I bussed bo, why, why, why why, why did you not jump onto that and vote bo too?

And for the off chance that worcej is mafia with two of his maf colleagues having him giving cover by 'petting' him and one towny fudging their pet, I'll pet worcej tonight. And you all should do the same.

I answer that question, Chaqa was my strongest town read.

[worcej]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

[worcej]

if you had OPENED YOUR EYES, you would've NOTICED what I wrote about NOT WANTING TO VOTE YOU FOR TODAY. I also tried to signal you by asking lfischl what he thought about people, including you. So even if bozo, damo and lfischl were mafia, they would still openly helped not to vote you and rescue you. There was no world where you would've been the target today, well, maybe if there was a gigantic mess up, but alright. So I'm pretty sure the claim was unnecessary to save you.

But yeah, spilt milk and all. Though if I could figure it out, I'm sure the mafia already knew too. That's why I said that survey is bad because the dog will be revealed.

Maybe that's a topic for god qt, not much sense in talking about it now.

YOU WERE ONLY ONE VOTE - Bo and Chaqa had a decent chance to swap onto me. We can sit here and micro-dissect this for eternity but ultimately it doesn’t matter - I had been a discussion as a flip choice by 4 different people throughout the phase. The arrow was pointing at me and I was still in danger.

You’re fundamentally wrong about the survey because the mechanic exists for the mafia to use to randomly find me too, so using it in a pro-town manner and trying to share information is actually an incredibly smart play.

bozo, damo, lfischl, yourself and me ... that are 5 votes that would've been there to save the dog. How many people are alive and have a vote?

The big problem here is that the mafia has access to the same information and can use it on top of their information gathering to find the dog ... but as I said, lets save that for the god qt.

reminder: I wasn’t here at phase change. I was wiping poop off my son’s ass.

[Kakarroto]

@eden I was sitting here practically on coals, wasn't sure if something bad happened to you, sure it's argh that we needed to wait so long but at least nothing bad happened to you.

anyway:

damo said he did pet worcej N1 and bozo N2 - however, he said this on D2 after 6 people said their pets. He could easily fudged this. With bozo petting ghug N1 and worcej N2 as well as lfischl who petted me N1 and worcej N2 those can't be mafia, right?

Well, imagine a world where mafia is bozo, lfischl, damo; imagine they found the dog N2. Bozo and lfischl could just insert this pet officially, they don't need to lie, they can just get you in the night, they might even get town points for trying to save you not to be the target for D3; imagine if maf damo knows this and changes the pet to N1 and just inserts a teammate as N2. Not that he needs to at this point since he would know who the dog is but still. The only risk would've been on N1 that I was the dog, but it was a small risk mathematically.

I'm not saying that this scenario has happened, but it's possible, so worcej your hardclaim on EoD wasn't so effective as you thought. It's still possible every single one of them is mafia. You needed to wait for the reveal to clear other people.

Also, bozo, if you thought I bussed bo, why, why, why why, why did you not jump onto that and vote bo too?

And for the off chance that worcej is mafia with two of his maf colleagues having him giving cover by 'petting' him and one towny fudging their pet, I'll pet worcej tonight. And you all should do the same.

I answer that question, Chaqa was my strongest town read.

what has that to do with voting bo?

[worcej]

@eden I was sitting here practically on coals, wasn't sure if something bad happened to you, sure it's argh that we needed to wait so long but at least nothing bad happened to you.

anyway:

damo said he did pet worcej N1 and bozo N2 - however, he said this on D2 after 6 people said their pets. He could easily fudged this. With bozo petting ghug N1 and worcej N2 as well as lfischl who petted me N1 and worcej N2 those can't be mafia, right?

Well, imagine a world where mafia is bozo, lfischl, damo; imagine they found the dog N2. Bozo and lfischl could just insert this pet officially, they don't need to lie, they can just get you in the night, they might even get town points for trying to save you not to be the target for D3; imagine if maf damo knows this and changes the pet to N1 and just inserts a teammate as N2. Not that he needs to at this point since he would know who the dog is but still. The only risk would've been on N1 that I was the dog, but it was a small risk mathematically.

I'm not saying that this scenario has happened, but it's possible, so worcej your hardclaim on EoD wasn't so effective as you thought. It's still possible every single one of them is mafia. You needed to wait for the reveal to clear other people.

Also, bozo, if you thought I bussed bo, why, why, why why, why did you not jump onto that and vote bo too?

And for the off chance that worcej is mafia with two of his maf colleagues having him giving cover by 'petting' him and one towny fudging their pet, I'll pet worcej tonight. And you all should do the same.

I answer that question, Chaqa was my strongest town read.

what has that to do with voting bo?

I believed bona to be more likely scum than bo

[bozotheclown]

While it is possible damo and/or lfischl managed to pull off what they did as mafia, I have to assume they are town.

By EOD, I thought Bonatogether was probably town, which is why I was suspecting a Chaqa/Kakarroto/bo_sox scum team. However, it now seems heartthrob had me fooled and the scum team is Chaqa/Kakarroto/heartthrob.

[bozotheclown]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

I think you claimed at the right time to maximize information.

In my opinion, the final D3 votes show that, and Chaqa, Kakarroto, and heartthrob could not vote for Bonatogether without conceding that you were right.

[bozotheclown]

If I am correct, as long as the D3 Bonatogether voters stick together, we should be OK.

[bozotheclown]

It is rather remarkable that 5 VTs out of 7 are out.

[Kakarroto]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

I'm sorry if I made you angry, that wasn't my goal. I don't expect anybody could play 100% correct so of course mistakes are made. Guess I made the mistake of not communicating better to you what I thought, but I also didn't want to out you too soon.

Also, it's fine, at the end of the day, it's your call since you got the role. I just lament a thing I saw for tomorrow where we potentially had cleared 3 people.

Concerning the communication with bona, from where I stand, I don't think bona was 100% wrong as you say here. You seemed to push some of his buttons, he seemed to push some of your buttons. The different stances concerning the survey came into that and after a bit it spiraled up and then you two seemed to just throw things at each other. I noticed the dog connection too late or else I might've had a chance to mend the gap between you two in time. But I'm not sure if you'd listen to me then and there.

I'm not sure being fine with that is good here. It reminds me of times like when I was convinced damo was maf, really oozed it, but was town. Or when I was doc and so totally convinced that one town was maf and had him voted out. Wasn't good. I lost both games as town (and maf ghug won, can you believe it). I suggest to you to not seeing it as fine. I think, as in my examples, there might've been a way to do it better. Even if you think Bona made mistakes when he spoke to you. I suggest you tell him the next time when it reaches a point where you feel it's enough and try to calm down.

Like, you too had me fuming in this game with some of your responses. But after all, we are all friends (or at least friendly people) here who like to play a game to find out the truth (or try to trick people). But the goal is that we should just have fun together, right? So I'm really sure, Bona didn't try to hurt you, he wanted to get through to you. What you might've interpreted as an attack was probably just a try to present you the situation from his perspective. Don't expect the worst from your game partners (even if they might not be in the same faction).

Hm, that all sounds a bit preachy, I think, which is not my intend. What I try to say is that communicating is a give and take, something to do together. You need two to do it well, but also two to ruin it. Don't see this as any blame or anything, but look back at it and I think you see that Bona wasn't the only one who didn't 'back down'. I mean neither of you would need to back down but I don't want to judge this, especially with bona not being able to tell his side.

I hope you understand what I try to say

[worcej]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

I'm sorry if I made you angry, that wasn't my goal. I don't expect anybody could play 100% correct so of course mistakes are made. Guess I made the mistake of not communicating better to you what I thought, but I also didn't want to out you too soon.

Also, it's fine, at the end of the day, it's your call since you got the role. I just lament a thing I saw for tomorrow where we potentially had cleared 3 people.

Concerning the communication with bona, from where I stand, I don't think bona was 100% wrong as you say here. You seemed to push some of his buttons, he seemed to push some of your buttons. The different stances concerning the survey came into that and after a bit it spiraled up and then you two seemed to just throw things at each other. I noticed the dog connection too late or else I might've had a chance to mend the gap between you two in time. But I'm not sure if you'd listen to me then and there.

I'm not sure being fine with that is good here. It reminds me of times like when I was convinced damo was maf, really oozed it, but was town. Or when I was doc and so totally convinced that one town was maf and had him voted out. Wasn't good. I lost both games as town (and maf ghug won, can you believe it). I suggest to you to not seeing it as fine. I think, as in my examples, there might've been a way to do it better. Even if you think Bona made mistakes when he spoke to you. I suggest you tell him the next time when it reaches a point where you feel it's enough and try to calm down.

Like, you too had me fuming in this game with some of your responses. But after all, we are all friends (or at least friendly people) here who like to play a game to find out the truth (or try to trick people). But the goal is that we should just have fun together, right? So I'm really sure, Bona didn't try to hurt you, he wanted to get through to you. What you might've interpreted as an attack was probably just a try to present you the situation from his perspective. Don't expect the worst from your game partners (even if they might not be in the same faction).

Hm, that all sounds a bit preachy, I think, which is not my intend. What I try to say is that communicating is a give and take, something to do together. You need two to do it well, but also two to ruin it. Don't see this as any blame or anything, but look back at it and I think you see that Bona wasn't the only one who didn't 'back down'. I mean neither of you would need to back down but I don't want to judge this, especially with bona not being able to tell his side.

I hope you understand what I try to say

I take nothing personal and wasn’t angry, more I was just annoyed as fuck as the dog that wanted the information to help me sus out town players while trying to save people at night phases.

The blatant not-going-to-participate attitude and apparent lack of using a free mechanic was just the cherry on top.

[Kakarroto]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

I think you claimed at the right time to maximize information.

In my opinion, the final D3 votes show that, and Chaqa, Kakarroto, and heartthrob could not vote for Bonatogether without conceding that you were right.

bona was my highest town read the whole game, why would I want to vote him ever?

Also, smear honey much, right?

[Kakarroto]

worcej, please do me a favour and read the game from start with the information you have now and try to have an open mind. Please insert your thoughts from that in your EoN post. That would be lovely.

[lfischl]

It is rather remarkable that 5 VTs out of 7 are out.

What’s the second PR?

[bozotheclown]

It is rather remarkable that 5 VTs out of 7 are out.

What’s the second PR?

there is a one use cop and a miller

[Chaqa]

I love how this community always is pissy at a PR for not behaving 100% efficiently at all times. It’s like you forget I am operating on little information and have to make shitty decision based of the information that was presented to me.

I was tied at two votes with Chaqa, would could very easily last second awap to me.
I was not able to be around for end of phase.
Bo was lingering around as another possible person to swap to me.
I believe, based off the information I had, that damo is most likely town.
Bona’s track record and how he was communicating with me was wrong and he wouldn’t back down.

I am 100% fine with being wrong here.

I think you claimed at the right time to maximize information.

In my opinion, the final D3 votes show that, and Chaqa, Kakarroto, and heartthrob could not vote for Bonatogether without conceding that you were right.

I wouldn't vote for Bona because I knew he was town.

[Chaqa]

If I am correct, as long as the D3 Bonatogether voters stick together, we should be OK.

All three scum voted Bona.