M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

Make sure you vote Fish boy

[lfischl]

@lfischl what are your current thought about bozo, worcej, damo and bo?

Damo: if chaqa filps scum he's conf town in my eyes, if he flips town I think we DK him next

Worcej: Not much really, don't think he's a good kill

Bozo: Would be fine killing him here if it got to that, would prefer bona or heart though

Bo: Town

[lfischl]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

Make sure you vote Fish boy

yeah yeah I will, just not a fan of either wagon

[Bonatogether]

Honestly, it’s more that I don’t have the ability to form a case on you due to the fact I am on my phone and have limited windows of opportunity to post. Couple that with your volume, of which 90% is worthless, and then it’s impossible to hit at it with your actual posts.

So I can only really present the fact that my review of your actions so far have been anti-town and you’re getting people killed by just being the loudspeaker at either opportunistic scum or town-lemmings who just listen to you at the last second.

Your whole case on me is that ‘I am not doing anything’ which is substantially false and you’re only saying it because you don’t like or agree with my opinion.

we have extended periods where you can do it - you can also leave and save it. wonders of technology. i also managed to reread the entire game in a couple hours, so you can dig through my iso in a reasonable amount of time.

the main opinions you have put forth are that i'm scummy, and that the survey doesn't tend towards leaking the pr. you've made no cases, and are apparently unwilling to create one on me at some point in the future, so i believe that in fact, you have done nothing. i messed up and got bungo and celly killed, but at least i was actively wrong rather than a passive commentator.

Also - commenting on playstyles: I am an observer and commentator. I am not an aggressive pusher. There isn’t anything wrong with this style and you invalidating it like this is rather interesting to see, considering most players play this way.

But anyways, you may ask, why do I play this way? Because in the past when I was a pusher, I got in incredibly rude fights with multiple people and caused a lot of drama because I got so incredibly invested in it. That and usually my pushes were terribly wrong, so I try to watch what people do and describe.

Take for instance, how you’re engaging with me: you’re almost exclusively taking my statements and cracking wise or painting them in negative light over and over without actually trying to explain why what I am doing is scummy atm. Your biggest argument of scummy behavior from me is the survey, which applies to multiple people, so this isn’t special to me.

So yeah, I think my case about you is based on your track record of screaming negative opinions about Bunny, celaph, and now me - all of which are town and as scum would help you win.

it's simply not true that the majority of players don't make cases and are only commenters. i believe basically everyone else has put forth reads, reasons, and evidence and attempted to convince people to make a wagon. You, by comparison, declared that you didn't feel there was momentum to vote me, but you slapped a tepid vote on me regardless. you moved off just recently anyways, according to the bot

Being wrong previously shouldn't be an obstacle to contributing. I can't speak to you getting into rude fights but that's also not an excuse to not chip in.

if you make scummy statements, no dip i'm going to present them as scummy. also, that's also not my biggest argument, but it is a contributing factor. being wrong isn't scummy but being aggressively and insistently wrong is, especially when like half the game (including confirmed dead townies) were telling you otherwise.

So yeah, I think my case about you is based on your track record of screaming negative opinions about Bunny, celaph, and now me - all of which are town and as scum would help you win.

this is a lame argument because first off, being wrong isn't scummy - i recognized that i messed up, recalibrated, and reoriented. also - i believe that i wasn't fixated on nothing in those two cases. i didn't get latched onto nothing. i found someone i thought was scum and pushed them to a dk.

[Chaqa]

I’d like to point out all three of my voters basic reason for voting me is that I have suspected them at various points.

[Kakarroto]

@lfischl what are your current thought about bozo, worcej, damo and bo?

Damo: if chaqa filps scum he's conf town in my eyes, if he flips town I think we DK him next

Worcej: Not much really, don't think he's a good kill

Bozo: Would be fine killing him here if it got to that, would prefer bona or heart though

Bo: Town

thanks. I don't know what you see in bo as town but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you connect damo this strongly with chaqa, I thought there was another connection that would give much more information? Then again, I'm not sure if you see what I see.

[lfischl]

@lfischl what are your current thought about bozo, worcej, damo and bo?

Damo: if chaqa filps scum he's conf town in my eyes, if he flips town I think we DK him next

Worcej: Not much really, don't think he's a good kill

Bozo: Would be fine killing him here if it got to that, would prefer bona or heart though

Bo: Town

thanks. I don't know what you see in bo as town but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure why you connect damo this strongly with chaqa, I thought there was another connection that would give much more information? Then again, I'm not sure if you see what I see.

This is what, the second or third round where chaqa wants damo dead, idk either he knows something we don't or is scum

[worcej]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

I've moved onto Chaqa being the best kill today at this point.

[bo_sox48]

as much as you don't make sense in most every other sense, I also was thinking that worcej was less likely mafia. After I've slept I was t hinking "mafia worcej probably doesn't push this hard for the survey", "worcej always gets mafia read", "worcej seems" (and I don't like to use that word but I think in this case I just have to since otherwise you don't understand) "too scum to be scum". Also worcej is probably the player with the single highest times being voted out during day as town.

I'm not fully convinced and I think it's still possible worcej is mafia, but after hours and hours in bed and trying to find enlightenment, I think that worcej might be town and shouldn't be a target today.

who do you want out?

mafia of course. Though I struggle to find who it is. Currently I kinda think the best idea is to remove bo from the game. Still have a very bad vibe from bozo and worcej just finds a way to destroy scouter after scouter, but I get the jist that the best course of action is to just vote bo. Maybe ghug will be happy about it.

##vote bo_sox

I want to omgus this so bad

[bo_sox48]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

I've moved onto Chaqa being the best kill today at this point.

No

[worcej]

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

I've moved onto Chaqa being the best kill today at this point.

No

Then ##vote bona again

[Kakarroto]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

I've moved onto Chaqa being the best kill today at this point.

tell me why chaqa would be, please. I don't see that.

[bo_sox48]

so because I didn’t have a strong scummy read on him at my EON post and was observing him, and didn’t announce that, I am scummy?

This is pretty meh reasoning here Kak…

the only reason (or at least the outstanding reason, I don't have the exact post here but from memory it was) you mentioned that Bona and I were mafia were because we were against the survey

it's like you subconsciously knew RD wouldn't be alive so you didn't include him there

and alright, damo was at the time too but he was so under the radar I too did forget about him there so that was, probably just because he didn't answer but also didn't argue.

Anyway, three people were loudly against it, two of them are because of that in your EoN2 list, the third one turns up dead seconds later. How could you not see that that is suspicious?

Wether you believe this or not, I would be much more calculating and forcibly include a public read on rdr of some sort if I was scum. Like, it would be a very complete read list to ensure I am not singling out my scum team in any way (by including or excluding them selectively)

My easy scum tell is when I am being chummy and overly nice/non-combative.

Knowing your own scumtell makes it not a scumtell

[worcej]

we have extended periods where you can do it - you can also leave and save it. wonders of technology. i also managed to reread the entire game in a couple hours, so you can dig through my iso in a reasonable amount of time.

the main opinions you have put forth are that i'm scummy, and that the survey doesn't tend towards leaking the pr. you've made no cases, and are apparently unwilling to create one on me at some point in the future, so i believe that in fact, you have done nothing. i messed up and got bungo and celly killed, but at least i was actively wrong rather than a passive commentator.

Also - commenting on playstyles: I am an observer and commentator. I am not an aggressive pusher. There isn’t anything wrong with this style and you invalidating it like this is rather interesting to see, considering most players play this way.

But anyways, you may ask, why do I play this way? Because in the past when I was a pusher, I got in incredibly rude fights with multiple people and caused a lot of drama because I got so incredibly invested in it. That and usually my pushes were terribly wrong, so I try to watch what people do and describe.

Take for instance, how you’re engaging with me: you’re almost exclusively taking my statements and cracking wise or painting them in negative light over and over without actually trying to explain why what I am doing is scummy atm. Your biggest argument of scummy behavior from me is the survey, which applies to multiple people, so this isn’t special to me.

So yeah, I think my case about you is based on your track record of screaming negative opinions about Bunny, celaph, and now me - all of which are town and as scum would help you win.

it's simply not true that the majority of players don't make cases and are only commenters. i believe basically everyone else has put forth reads, reasons, and evidence and attempted to convince people to make a wagon. You, by comparison, declared that you didn't feel there was momentum to vote me, but you slapped a tepid vote on me regardless. you moved off just recently anyways, according to the bot

Being wrong previously shouldn't be an obstacle to contributing. I can't speak to you getting into rude fights but that's also not an excuse to not chip in.

if you make scummy statements, no dip i'm going to present them as scummy. also, that's also not my biggest argument, but it is a contributing factor. being wrong isn't scummy but being aggressively and insistently wrong is, especially when like half the game (including confirmed dead townies) were telling you otherwise.

So yeah, I think my case about you is based on your track record of screaming negative opinions about Bunny, celaph, and now me - all of which are town and as scum would help you win.

this is a lame argument because first off, being wrong isn't scummy - i recognized that i messed up, recalibrated, and reoriented. also - i believe that i wasn't fixated on nothing in those two cases. i didn't get latched onto nothing. i found someone i thought was scum and pushed them to a dk.

Being wrong isn't scummy, but that isn't my actual point at all.

Once again, we have Bona twisting what I am actually saying to make me sound worse.

[lfischl]

I've moved onto Chaqa being the best kill today at this point.

No

Then ##vote bona again

##vote bona

[bo_sox48]

your way of putting the names in looks weird, some are alphabetically, some not and like the chaqa one not how he had ranked them.

Also you made a mistake with mine, you disregarded my mentioning of bo. Also you put damo and chaqa who I read on the same level in and didn't put heartthrob in who was mentioned earlier. Why did you do that? Are you just reading what you want?

I posted the source and interpreted it as those 4 being your top scum suspects. Please list your scum pool and I will correct it.

well before it was bozo, worcej, bo and the next best was heartthrob

now I'm not too sure. There are people I don't want to vote out today who might be mafia but I need more time to find more out. I think bo is a safe target for the vote today. If you want to use data, I suggest you take my answer above because those four look most mafia-like to me, but I have some doubts. Other than that I can't offer you a satisfying answer, I'm afraid.

You’ve said multiple times that I am the best target today and a) haven’t explained why, and b) haven’t actually said that I’m mafia, which I find curious

[Bonatogether]

Like, what was your point in that post Bona?

it's a statement of fact. you're free to read into it or not, but it's a fact

I think it’s a great example of you trying to imply negativity about me, not just share facts.

well if we are going to read into it, we may safely note a second fact (an empirically demonstrated relationship, in fact), that those who repeat their honesty are more likely to be dishonest in what they are saying.

[worcej]

it's a statement of fact. you're free to read into it or not, but it's a fact

I think it’s a great example of you trying to imply negativity about me, not just share facts.

well if we are going to read into it, we may safely note a second fact (an empirically demonstrated relationship, in fact), that those who repeat their honesty are more likely to be dishonest in what they are saying.

blah blah blah *insert smear still* blah blah blah

[Kakarroto]

I posted the source and interpreted it as those 4 being your top scum suspects. Please list your scum pool and I will correct it.

well before it was bozo, worcej, bo and the next best was heartthrob

now I'm not too sure. There are people I don't want to vote out today who might be mafia but I need more time to find more out. I think bo is a safe target for the vote today. If you want to use data, I suggest you take my answer above because those four look most mafia-like to me, but I have some doubts. Other than that I can't offer you a satisfying answer, I'm afraid.

You’ve said multiple times that I am the best target today and a) haven’t explained why, and b) haven’t actually said that I’m mafia, which I find curious

then I'm glad about that, mafia probably hasn't figured out what I have

or I'm blinded horrendously and being lured away from the flock

either way, I think I'm close to solve

[Bonatogether]

Will start it regardless.

##vote Bona

I'd support this if you still wanted it worcej

fisch im going to bully you