M1023: Mafarmia [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

o.O I guess you haven't read my mafia games then. I was easily picked out D1 and D2 ... the only one where I was successful was because I substituted late, on the block was maf vs town (I think it was damo who was maf and I was the only other maf left) and my vote condemned damo, which gave me credit, but also because the one I substituted always bussed hard and surgically removed the ones that were most on my side ... because I wouldn't let those who maf read me alive, right? But that was only possible since I had full control over the night action. Also, I was pretty stressed out and I'm sure, if I was subbed in only one turn earlier or if the game took one turn more, I wouldn't have made it. I could only barely look like I did my townplay because I had no special information from other players and was left with only the voices in my head.

Also, my last two towngames I was voted out because mafia threw so much mud at me that I couldn't convince enough of my other townies and that made us lose the game ... both times there was deathlama as mafia so that might be why, but still, 'incredibly skilled in communication' is an overestimation of me.

I don’t fault you for thinking that my opinion isn’t right about you, but that is my honest take from viewing your GT comments and actually posting in prior games.

2nd post in a row where worcej gives his 'honest opinion'.

Yes - I have phrases that I say a lot. Honest opinion is one of them.

[worcej]

Like, what was your point in that post Bona?

[Kakarroto]

There's this weird Bozo-damo axis hyper-focused on me and I can't really figure out a scum motivation for it, outside me being a potential miskill.

Which is why I'm leaning toward worcej today.

So how am I the scummiest then?

my scouter exploded when I looked at you and calibrated at mafia ...

[Kakarroto]

Well I petted rdr N1 so obviously I thought he might be a the dog lol.

PRs should be active and participate because the mafia is looking for PRs among people who are not actively participating, as the rdr kill in my opinion demonstrates, and you haven’t disputed that. And yes, lurking PRs should change their behavior, and we should kill lurkers because once the PRs wisely stray away from that path the remaining ones include a deep threat.

Why else do you suppose rdr was killed? Your killing anti-survey people makes zero sense, and I am still hoping you’re being sarcastic by supposing the mafia started off their quest to kill anti-survey folks, a goal that would take the entire game and has no stated gain for them, with the least talkative and most apathetic of the anti-survey post as opposed to any of the other ones.

So let’s think through some alternatives:
a) The mafia team is comprised of all the other anti-survey people that are being louder about it than rdrivera! But in that case they killed an ally.
b) The mafia team killed rdrivera because he had one of them pinned in an inescapable corner! But he didn’t have anyone pinned in a corner and wasn’t doing anything.
c) The mafia team killed rdrivera because he was the most dangerous player remaining to them in some hypothetical scenario down the road. What scenario could that be?
d) The mafia team killed rdrivera because they thought he was a PR. You didn’t explain why this doesn’t make sense.
e) (insert your answer here)

What do you mean zero sense, of course there is a sense there, to get more information out of town by removing people who don't contribute, there are more people left who contribute. Ergo more information on the survey. A survey that helps locate the dog if every town participates honestly. Plus mafia can bolster each other by 'petting' each other.

Also, removing RD was probably motivated because the mafia doesn't want to target a PR, on top of that RD was thought of being towny by many and wasn't giving info about the dog ... because if they target the target of the dog, then they trigger the dogs power and mafia want to avoid that, right? So RD making his trademark vanilla claim was a godsend to them since the dog would surely not protect RD since mafia is trying to hunt PR, right? Also even if the mafia would target RD in that night, so early the dog doesn't want to use their power just because of a vanilla town, even if to confirm his townyness. So because these 3 reasons lined up and RD was most likely not going to be protected at night, RD was chosen.

RD being targeted for being a PR candidate makes only sense for people who don't know RD (or think he would gamble his trademark tell for being safe as PR in a mini).

How in your right mind do you think scum don’t want to hit PRs?

because the one scan cop with a miller and a godfather in game is pretty useless

because the miller is negative value for town

because the dog only uses his power when mafia hit them

the only PR the mafia wants to hit is the cop and that is a low priority target

[Kakarroto]

You clearly don’t get sarcasm if you thought I was being serious about the pet…

Otherwise - I did post a question about rdr when someone, I believe Bo, made a comment about him not being remarkable because that was exactly it - he was unremarkable this game.

so, you disregarded RD because someone else said RD was unremarkable, you concurred and that made you think RD isn't mafia, do I have that understood correctly?

Being unremarkable as RD usually tips to me thinking he was scummy if you value my honest opinion, but that alone was little to go off of so he had garnered my attention at the very least.

If he was alive right now, meaning his alignment was in question, he would be in my 4 scum pool based off game performance.

but he wasn't on the night when you posted your EoN reads and he was removed by the mafia action?

and you ask why you are 'scummy'?!?

[worcej]

if you honestly believed that, you could point it out and centralize it by making a case. understand if you can't do it, though, cause im town

Honestly, it’s more that I don’t have the ability to form a case on you due to the fact I am on my phone and have limited windows of opportunity to post. Couple that with your volume, of which 90% is worthless, and then it’s impossible to hit at it with your actual posts.

So I can only really present the fact that my review of your actions so far have been anti-town and you’re getting people killed by just being the loudspeaker at either opportunistic scum or town-lemmings who just listen to you at the last second.

Your whole case on me is that ‘I am not doing anything’ which is substantially false and you’re only saying it because you don’t like or agree with my opinion.

we have extended periods where you can do it - you can also leave and save it. wonders of technology. i also managed to reread the entire game in a couple hours, so you can dig through my iso in a reasonable amount of time.

the main opinions you have put forth are that i'm scummy, and that the survey doesn't tend towards leaking the pr. you've made no cases, and are apparently unwilling to create one on me at some point in the future, so i believe that in fact, you have done nothing. i messed up and got bungo and celly killed, but at least i was actively wrong rather than a passive commentator.

Also - commenting on playstyles: I am an observer and commentator. I am not an aggressive pusher. There isn’t anything wrong with this style and you invalidating it like this is rather interesting to see, considering most players play this way.

But anyways, you may ask, why do I play this way? Because in the past when I was a pusher, I got in incredibly rude fights with multiple people and caused a lot of drama because I got so incredibly invested in it. That and usually my pushes were terribly wrong, so I try to watch what people do and describe.

Take for instance, how you’re engaging with me: you’re almost exclusively taking my statements and cracking wise or painting them in negative light over and over without actually trying to explain why what I am doing is scummy atm. Your biggest argument of scummy behavior from me is the survey, which applies to multiple people, so this isn’t special to me.

So yeah, I think my case about you is based on your track record of screaming negative opinions about Bunny, celaph, and now me - all of which are town and as scum would help you win.

[worcej]

so, you disregarded RD because someone else said RD was unremarkable, you concurred and that made you think RD isn't mafia, do I have that understood correctly?

Being unremarkable as RD usually tips to me thinking he was scummy if you value my honest opinion, but that alone was little to go off of so he had garnered my attention at the very least.

If he was alive right now, meaning his alignment was in question, he would be in my 4 scum pool based off game performance.

but he wasn't on the night when you posted your EoN reads and he was removed by the mafia action?

and you ask why you are 'scummy'?!?

so because I didn’t have a strong scummy read on him at my EON post and was observing him, and didn’t announce that, I am scummy?

This is pretty meh reasoning here Kak…

[Chaqa]

There's this weird Bozo-damo axis hyper-focused on me and I can't really figure out a scum motivation for it, outside me being a potential miskill.

Which is why I'm leaning toward worcej today.

So how am I the scummiest then?

You aren't particularly, but you're low activity and I think that's more scum-leaning.

I'm confident Kak and Lfischl are town. Bona is lean town.

Leaves a small pool.

[Bonatogether]

i think townies would be less afraid to draw attention to ourselves, but a scum is trying to hide something and would want to be more careful with their words -- could lead to a strategy where they blend more into the shadows, try and be ignored as long as possible

if you apply that to this game, what do you get? interested to see how you reason it through

that's why i feel a lot more confident trusting you and bo_sox as town than others that I get less of a distinct impression of

you said you had an impression of worcej early on - what do you think?

[worcej]

What do you mean zero sense, of course there is a sense there, to get more information out of town by removing people who don't contribute, there are more people left who contribute. Ergo more information on the survey. A survey that helps locate the dog if every town participates honestly. Plus mafia can bolster each other by 'petting' each other.

Also, removing RD was probably motivated because the mafia doesn't want to target a PR, on top of that RD was thought of being towny by many and wasn't giving info about the dog ... because if they target the target of the dog, then they trigger the dogs power and mafia want to avoid that, right? So RD making his trademark vanilla claim was a godsend to them since the dog would surely not protect RD since mafia is trying to hunt PR, right? Also even if the mafia would target RD in that night, so early the dog doesn't want to use their power just because of a vanilla town, even if to confirm his townyness. So because these 3 reasons lined up and RD was most likely not going to be protected at night, RD was chosen.

RD being targeted for being a PR candidate makes only sense for people who don't know RD (or think he would gamble his trademark tell for being safe as PR in a mini).

How in your right mind do you think scum don’t want to hit PRs?

because the one scan cop with a miller and a godfather in game is pretty useless

because the miller is negative value for town

because the dog only uses his power when mafia hit them

the only PR the mafia wants to hit is the cop and that is a low priority target

The logic here is pretty fucking awful.

The cop can catch 2/3 of the mafia and has the lowest chance on hitting the miller. So it’s still a strong PR.

The dog is a doctor that will create two clears for the next day phase. That’s incredibly powerful if they succeed in a save and can swing the game entirely to the town.

Thinking the mafia want to avoid the PRs is probably the most retarded thought I’ve seen this game…

[Bonatogether]

I don’t fault you for thinking that my opinion isn’t right about you, but that is my honest take from viewing your GT comments and actually posting in prior games.

2nd post in a row where worcej gives his 'honest opinion'.

Yes - I have phrases that I say a lot. Honest opinion is one of them.

don't recall that but ok

[Kakarroto]

Although, damo is the weakest read in my scum pool, and I am starting to worry that worcej vs. damo would be town vs. town.

as much as you don't make sense in most every other sense, I also was thinking that worcej was less likely mafia. After I've slept I was t hinking "mafia worcej probably doesn't push this hard for the survey", "worcej always gets mafia read", "worcej seems" (and I don't like to use that word but I think in this case I just have to since otherwise you don't understand) "too scum to be scum". Also worcej is probably the player with the single highest times being voted out during day as town.

I'm not fully convinced and I think it's still possible worcej is mafia, but after hours and hours in bed and trying to find enlightenment, I think that worcej might be town and shouldn't be a target today.

who do you want out?

mafia of course. Though I struggle to find who it is. Currently I kinda think the best idea is to remove bo from the game. Still have a very bad vibe from bozo and worcej just finds a way to destroy scouter after scouter, but I get the jist that the best course of action is to just vote bo. Maybe ghug will be happy about it.

##vote bo_sox

[Bonatogether]

Like, what was your point in that post Bona?

it's a statement of fact. you're free to read into it or not, but it's a fact

[worcej]

There's this weird Bozo-damo axis hyper-focused on me and I can't really figure out a scum motivation for it, outside me being a potential miskill.

Which is why I'm leaning toward worcej today.

So how am I the scummiest then?

You aren't particularly, but you're low activity and I think that's more scum-leaning.

I'm confident Kak and Lfischl are town. Bona is lean town.

Leaves a small pool.

I am the 3rd highest poster this entire game… only 1/3 of my total posts have come this phase, which is D3…

How am I low activity exactly?

[worcej]

Like, what was your point in that post Bona?

it's a statement of fact. you're free to read into it or not, but it's a fact

I think it’s a great example of you trying to imply negativity about me, not just share facts.

[Kakarroto]

What do you mean zero sense, of course there is a sense there, to get more information out of town by removing people who don't contribute, there are more people left who contribute. Ergo more information on the survey. A survey that helps locate the dog if every town participates honestly. Plus mafia can bolster each other by 'petting' each other.

Also, removing RD was probably motivated because the mafia doesn't want to target a PR, on top of that RD was thought of being towny by many and wasn't giving info about the dog ... because if they target the target of the dog, then they trigger the dogs power and mafia want to avoid that, right? So RD making his trademark vanilla claim was a godsend to them since the dog would surely not protect RD since mafia is trying to hunt PR, right? Also even if the mafia would target RD in that night, so early the dog doesn't want to use their power just because of a vanilla town, even if to confirm his townyness. So because these 3 reasons lined up and RD was most likely not going to be protected at night, RD was chosen.

RD being targeted for being a PR candidate makes only sense for people who don't know RD (or think he would gamble his trademark tell for being safe as PR in a mini).

How in your right mind do you think scum don’t want to hit PRs?

because the one scan cop with a miller and a godfather in game is pretty useless

because the miller is negative value for town

because the dog only uses his power when mafia hit them

the only PR the mafia wants to hit is the cop and that is a low priority target

that last sentence is kinda wrong, of course the mafia also wants to remove the dog, but trying to hit the dog without good information might trigger the dog so mafia will likely not hit someone the dog might save so they prioritize non PR who the dog probably wont save

so that's also why anyone who looks like the cop is probably not the mafia target since the dog would also try to protect the cop, even if they only have a single weak scan

[Kakarroto]

Being unremarkable as RD usually tips to me thinking he was scummy if you value my honest opinion, but that alone was little to go off of so he had garnered my attention at the very least.

If he was alive right now, meaning his alignment was in question, he would be in my 4 scum pool based off game performance.

but he wasn't on the night when you posted your EoN reads and he was removed by the mafia action?

and you ask why you are 'scummy'?!?

so because I didn’t have a strong scummy read on him at my EON post and was observing him, and didn’t announce that, I am scummy?

This is pretty meh reasoning here Kak…

the only reason (or at least the outstanding reason, I don't have the exact post here but from memory it was) you mentioned that Bona and I were mafia were because we were against the survey

it's like you subconsciously knew RD wouldn't be alive so you didn't include him there

and alright, damo was at the time too but he was so under the radar I too did forget about him there so that was, probably just because he didn't answer but also didn't argue.

Anyway, three people were loudly against it, two of them are because of that in your EoN2 list, the third one turns up dead seconds later. How could you not see that that is suspicious?

[Kakarroto]

How in your right mind do you think scum don’t want to hit PRs?

because the one scan cop with a miller and a godfather in game is pretty useless

because the miller is negative value for town

because the dog only uses his power when mafia hit them

the only PR the mafia wants to hit is the cop and that is a low priority target

The logic here is pretty fucking awful.

The cop can catch 2/3 of the mafia and has the lowest chance on hitting the miller. So it’s still a strong PR.

The dog is a doctor that will create two clears for the next day phase. That’s incredibly powerful if they succeed in a save and can swing the game entirely to the town.

Thinking the mafia want to avoid the PRs is probably the most retarded thought I’ve seen this game…

language

[Chaqa]

So how am I the scummiest then?

You aren't particularly, but you're low activity and I think that's more scum-leaning.

I'm confident Kak and Lfischl are town. Bona is lean town.

Leaves a small pool.

I am the 3rd highest poster this entire game… only 1/3 of my total posts have come this phase, which is D3…

How am I low activity exactly?

Well, like you said a lot are recent. But I think it's even more damning if you're posting lots without making an impact.

[worcej]

but he wasn't on the night when you posted your EoN reads and he was removed by the mafia action?

and you ask why you are 'scummy'?!?

so because I didn’t have a strong scummy read on him at my EON post and was observing him, and didn’t announce that, I am scummy?

This is pretty meh reasoning here Kak…

the only reason (or at least the outstanding reason, I don't have the exact post here but from memory it was) you mentioned that Bona and I were mafia were because we were against the survey

it's like you subconsciously knew RD wouldn't be alive so you didn't include him there

and alright, damo was at the time too but he was so under the radar I too did forget about him there so that was, probably just because he didn't answer but also didn't argue.

Anyway, three people were loudly against it, two of them are because of that in your EoN2 list, the third one turns up dead seconds later. How could you not see that that is suspicious?

Wether you believe this or not, I would be much more calculating and forcibly include a public read on rdr of some sort if I was scum. Like, it would be a very complete read list to ensure I am not singling out my scum team in any way (by including or excluding them selectively)

My easy scum tell is when I am being chummy and overly nice/non-combative.