Austria vs Bots

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Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#381 Post by Trigfea63 » Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:41 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:50 pm
In my game, in the fall of 1912 I decided to leave Greece to the fates and play Bul S Con, Con S Syr-Smy, Arm-Ank. I didn't want Con to move, but didn't want it to be destroyed either as I probably couldn't rebuild it. Also, I played the already mentioned tricky defense of the Austrian homeland. Italy attacked Tri with 2 and Vie with two (support from Tyo, as expected). Italy also attacked Greece so I ended up losing Greece but gained Smy. I was not able to build, but Italy was -1 and pulled Ank which now leaves it wide open for Arm to move into if needed. In other news, it looks like England is setting up to take StP with an army, though, which I'm not sure I like.

In the spring, I kept things defensive in Turkey. Same tactics in Tri/Vie. Tried to take Greece back. England did take StP from Russia, and Italy switch to a 3 on Tri attack, which failed. The interesting thing was that he moved EAS-ION (I'm not sure what that's about) which means that Arm can walk into Ank and not have to defend Smy. I still don't see a good way to open up a home center for a build and I'm a little nervous about what England is up to, but I *think* I can move Arm-Ank and still get back if needed. Not sure yet.
That's excellent. You take bot-Italy's center, and he responds by (1) disbanding the adjacent center and (2) moving other units away from the region!

The main thing you need to focus on now is finding a way to clear at least one home SC for builds. You probably need at least 1 more army in the area to do that safely. In other words, to acquire more units, you'll need more units. A bit of a Catch-22. (Or maybe just a Catch-2?) Perhaps you can spare a unit from Turkey?

* * *

In my game, I'm going ahead with the Autumn '12 moves, with one minor alteration: Naples and Ionian will each attack TYS, instead of Naples supporting Ionian's attack. The attack from Naples cuts support for a potential English attack on Ionian, and vice versa. So, the moves are:

NAP-->TYS
ION-->TYS
AEG-->ION
VEN-->ROM
APU supports VEN-->ROM
ADR-->VEN

Support-holds in the East. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=439208

Phase II successfully completed! England made the most predictable moves possible: TYS support-hold ROM, ROM support PIE-->VEN. Any of my alternative options would have worked. I could have advanced the fleets. Still, I'm satisfied with the analysis and decision. (The result's not bad, either.)

Also, England pushed his GoL fleet forward to Tuscany. As a result, his dislodged Rome army had no retreat and was destroyed. An excellent turn of events! Phase III of my project would have been to destroy that Tuscany army. England has done it for me. Phase III successfully completed! On to Phase IV, advancing the fleets along the west coast of Italy.

Germany went back to the supported attack on SEV, after only 1 turn of MOS-->SEV, UKR-->RUM. Is he trying to lure me into attacking Ukraine?

Time for builds next. I'm +1. I now have enough fleets. Probably an army to backstop SEV or RUM, to open up some attack possibilities in the East.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#382 Post by DougJoe » Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:37 am

Trigfea63 wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:41 pm

That's excellent. You take bot-Italy's center, and he responds by (1) disbanding the adjacent center and (2) moving other units away from the region!

The main thing you need to focus on now is finding a way to clear at least one home SC for builds. You probably need at least 1 more army in the area to do that safely. In other words, to acquire more units, you'll need more units. A bit of a Catch-22. (Or maybe just a Catch-2?) Perhaps you can spare a unit from Turkey?
I don't know if you saw, I did end up playing another turn after my last post - I did end up taking Ankara and England kept StP but Russia stayed alive by taking Sweden, so no build for England. I'm still not sure how I feel about that - I'd like him to have another unit *only* if it goes against Italy, but I have a feeling that he'd push more through St.P. Italy had to disband another unit, and picked F AEG, which is really nice for me as it removes so much of the threat from Turkey, which means I can push some power north (which I had been thinking about even before I read your post).
Trigfea63 wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:41 pm

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=439208
Phase II successfully completed! England made the most predictable moves possible: TYS support-hold ROM, ROM support PIE-->VEN. Any of my alternative options would have worked. I could have advanced the fleets. Still, I'm satisfied with the analysis and decision. (The result's not bad, either.)

Also, England pushed his GoL fleet forward to Tuscany. As a result, his dislodged Rome army had no retreat and was destroyed. An excellent turn of events! Phase III of my project would have been to destroy that Tuscany army. England has done it for me. Phase III successfully completed! On to Phase IV, advancing the fleets along the west coast of Italy.

Germany went back to the supported attack on SEV, after only 1 turn of MOS-->SEV, UKR-->RUM. Is he trying to lure me into attacking Ukraine?

Time for builds next. I'm +1. I now have enough fleets. Probably an army to backstop SEV or RUM, to open up some attack possibilities in the East.
All nice! I find these sorts of "slow progress" things against the bots to be somewhat common. I think you're right to build an army - I could make a case for it to go west, too, if only to shore up Venice.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#383 Post by DougJoe » Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:20 am

DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:37 am
I don't know if you saw, I did end up playing another turn after my last post - I did end up taking Ankara and England kept StP but Russia stayed alive by taking Sweden, so no build for England. I'm still not sure how I feel about that - I'd like him to have another unit *only* if it goes against Italy, but I have a feeling that he'd push more through St.P. Italy had to disband another unit, and picked F AEG, which is really nice for me as it removes so much of the threat from Turkey, which means I can push some power north (which I had been thinking about even before I read your post).
Fast forward a few turns to Autumn 1916...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

1914, I moved armies northwards, England eliminated Russia, but built a fleet (yay!).
1915, I took Bohemia, Italy built as a fleet in Naples. (Not what I was hoping for)
Spring of 1916... I took a shot at Tyrolia, while still putting pressure on Greece, and a couple of interesting things happened. The first was that Italy moved out of ADR to take Albania... and since I couldn't retreat, it was disbanded (I should have probably been using Bul to tap Gre instead of Alb?)... but Italy also used Munich to defend Tyrolia instead of Berlin and England (who had attacked Berlin the last couple of turns) got into Berlin. Italy, of course, retreated to Silesia, so now I have that unit to deal with.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#384 Post by DougJoe » Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:25 am

DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:20 am

Fast forward a few turns to Autumn 1916...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

1914, I moved armies northwards, England eliminated Russia, but built a fleet (yay!).
1915, I took Bohemia, Italy built as a fleet in Naples. (Not what I was hoping for)
Spring of 1916... I took a shot at Tyrolia, while still putting pressure on Greece, and a couple of interesting things happened. The first was that Italy moved out of ADR to take Albania... and since I couldn't retreat, it was disbanded (I should have probably been using Bul to tap Gre instead of Alb?)... but Italy also used Munich to defend Tyrolia instead of Berlin and England (who had attacked Berlin the last couple of turns) got into Berlin. Italy, of course, retreated to Silesia, so now I have that unit to deal with.
Fast forwards a few *more* turns... I kept Italy's fleet in AEG at bay, took Munich in 1918, and now, in the Winter of 1919... my units have finally caught up to my centers...

...and the Mighty Austrian Navy has returned!

I ought to be able to get 4 more to polish this thing off.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#385 Post by DougJoe » Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:23 am

DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:25 am

Fast forwards a few *more* turns... I kept Italy's fleet in AEG at bay, took Munich in 1918, and now, in the Winter of 1919... my units have finally caught up to my centers...

...and the Mighty Austrian Navy has returned!

I ought to be able to get 4 more to polish this thing off.
...and fast forward again to the end of 1924...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Victory!

Took Berlin in 1920 (why not, risk England's wrath to keep him from getting a build).
Punched into Venice in 1921... that caused Italy to turn around. Every single unit came back towards the homeland. Venice was the only Italian home center I would get.
Spring of 1923 I probably made a mistake not moving Ven S Apu-Rom, Bur-Mar. Having that army in Apu be destroyed was annoying. Wasn't sure what that English fleet was up to.
Fall 1923... I correctly guessed Italy would still try to move Mar-Pie and followed behind him with Bur-Mar. He removed Gas, which paved the way to Spain. Hoping I can hold Venice.
Spring 1924... I moved to Spa and Italy didn't block Bur-Mar, so Por was on the menu as well... which was good because Italy pushed his fleets forward into position to attack Greece. I didn't even check to see what Eng F TYS actually did at the time. (He supported Apu-ION, no idea why).
Fall 1924... Lost Gre, but got Por and Spa, and held Ven. 18! England sniped Bre and moved units into better positions in the north... I'm glad the game is over and I don't have to defend this anymore!

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#386 Post by Trigfea63 » Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:14 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:23 am
DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:25 am

Fast forwards a few *more* turns... I kept Italy's fleet in AEG at bay, took Munich in 1918, and now, in the Winter of 1919... my units have finally caught up to my centers...

...and the Mighty Austrian Navy has returned!

I ought to be able to get 4 more to polish this thing off.
...and fast forward again to the end of 1924...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Victory!

Took Berlin in 1920 (why not, risk England's wrath to keep him from getting a build).
Punched into Venice in 1921... that caused Italy to turn around. Every single unit came back towards the homeland. Venice was the only Italian home center I would get.
Spring of 1923 I probably made a mistake not moving Ven S Apu-Rom, Bur-Mar. Having that army in Apu be destroyed was annoying. Wasn't sure what that English fleet was up to.
Fall 1923... I correctly guessed Italy would still try to move Mar-Pie and followed behind him with Bur-Mar. He removed Gas, which paved the way to Spain. Hoping I can hold Venice.
Spring 1924... I moved to Spa and Italy didn't block Bur-Mar, so Por was on the menu as well... which was good because Italy pushed his fleets forward into position to attack Greece. I didn't even check to see what Eng F TYS actually did at the time. (He supported Apu-ION, no idea why).
Fall 1924... Lost Gre, but got Por and Spa, and held Ven. 18! England sniped Bre and moved units into better positions in the north... I'm glad the game is over and I don't have to defend this anymore!
Congratulations! Another human victory against the bots where we had to come back from a very tough position. Also, pretty cool to get a solo as Austria, taking MAR/SPA/POR as your 16th, 17th, and 18th centers with only armies!

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#387 Post by DougJoe » Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:58 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:14 pm
Congratulations! Another human victory against the bots where we had to come back from a very tough position. Also, pretty cool to get a solo as Austria, taking MAR/SPA/POR as your 16th, 17th, and 18th centers with only armies!
Thanks! On to the next, Germany this time.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=449817

I have never soloed five games in a row against the bots...

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#388 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:44 am

DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:58 pm
Thanks! On to the next, Germany this time.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=449817

I have never soloed five games in a row against the bots...
Alright! I'm spectating "Shadow Shield." Good luck on #5 ...

In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I'm now leaning toward trying to destroy the English fleet at Tuscany. I'll have to lure it into Rome in the Spring, then destroy it in the Autumn. The plan:

Build a fleet at Smyrna. In Spr '13, I expect England will order TUS-->ROM supported by TYS. Allow that move to succeed. Order ROM-->VEN supported by ADR, NAP-->TYS supported by ION, and SMY-->EAS. Maybe also APU-->ROM without support, to make it look like I was contesting Rome. The supported attack on TYS should reinforce bot-England's tendency to not move the TYS fleet. Also, if England unexpectedly orders TYS-->ROM supported by TUS, the supported move to TYS keeps the English fleet at WES from backfilling TYS. Then, in Autumn '13, NAP-->ROM supported by APU, ION-->TYS to cut support, VEN-->TUS to cut off the retreat (or to cut support if the Piedmont army moves there), and ADR-->VEN to bounce PIE-->VEN. AEG supports EAS-->ION just in case.

LMK if you think this is too crazy. I feel like I need to reduce the number of English units in Italy to have a better chance of advancing.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#389 Post by DougJoe » Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:48 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:44 am
DougJoe wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:58 pm
Thanks! On to the next, Germany this time.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=449817

I have never soloed five games in a row against the bots...
Alright! I'm spectating "Shadow Shield." Good luck on #5 ...
Thanks. (FWIW, the game names of late are Chronomancer spells from Bard's Tale 3). Germany is definitely a power that I feel like I should do better with than I do - I've seen others on the boards say that Germany is easy or their best power against the bots.

Recap of Spring 01...
I decided to play Kie-Den, Ber-Kie, Mun-Ruh. I went back and looked and it's the opening I've played the most as Germany by a wide margin.

England played to NWG/NTH,Yor, which means he's either going to play for BAR/Nwy or Nwy/Bel.
France played the Maginot (glad I didn't try for Bur) which isn't exactly what I wanted to see.
Italy went for Austria (who blocked him out). Not sure I like that, either, except for the fleet probably moving to Tun in the fall, and maybe pushing west?
Russia put the fleet in Rum, not sure if that means he wants to attack Turkey or not. He and Austria bounced in Gal, but Austria's got issues now and might only be getting one this year. Thoughts on Fall 01 later.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:44 am
In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I'm now leaning toward trying to destroy the English fleet at Tuscany. I'll have to lure it into Rome in the Spring, then destroy it in the Autumn. The plan:

Build a fleet at Smyrna. In Spr '13, I expect England will order TUS-->ROM supported by TYS. Allow that move to succeed. Order ROM-->VEN supported by ADR, NAP-->TYS supported by ION, and SMY-->EAS. Maybe also APU-->ROM without support, to make it look like I was contesting Rome. The supported attack on TYS should reinforce bot-England's tendency to not move the TYS fleet. Also, if England unexpectedly orders TYS-->ROM supported by TUS, the supported move to TYS keeps the English fleet at WES from backfilling TYS. Then, in Autumn '13, NAP-->ROM supported by APU, ION-->TYS to cut support, VEN-->TUS to cut off the retreat (or to cut support if the Piedmont army moves there), and ADR-->VEN to bounce PIE-->VEN. AEG supports EAS-->ION just in case.

LMK if you think this is too crazy. I feel like I need to reduce the number of English units in Italy to have a better chance of advancing.
Unusual? Yes. *Too* crazy? Hard to say. Trying to get rid of the fleet is a worthwhile strategic goal, I think... as long as you think that you can get Rome back in the fall.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#390 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:29 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:48 pm
Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:44 am
In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I'm now leaning toward trying to destroy the English fleet at Tuscany. I'll have to lure it into Rome in the Spring, then destroy it in the Autumn. The plan:

Build a fleet at Smyrna. In Spr '13, I expect England will order TUS-->ROM supported by TYS. Allow that move to succeed. Order ROM-->VEN supported by ADR, NAP-->TYS supported by ION, and SMY-->EAS. Maybe also APU-->ROM without support, to make it look like I was contesting Rome. The supported attack on TYS should reinforce bot-England's tendency to not move the TYS fleet. Also, if England unexpectedly orders TYS-->ROM supported by TUS, the supported move to TYS keeps the English fleet at WES from backfilling TYS. Then, in Autumn '13, NAP-->ROM supported by APU, ION-->TYS to cut support, VEN-->TUS to cut off the retreat (or to cut support if the Piedmont army moves there), and ADR-->VEN to bounce PIE-->VEN. AEG supports EAS-->ION just in case.

LMK if you think this is too crazy. I feel like I need to reduce the number of English units in Italy to have a better chance of advancing.
Unusual? Yes. *Too* crazy? Hard to say. Trying to get rid of the fleet is a worthwhile strategic goal, I think... as long as you think that you can get Rome back in the fall.
Yeah, I'm pretty certain I will get Rome back in the fall. I built my fleet in Smyrna. England built an army in London. (England had a build from the army I destroyed in Rome last Autumn. That army only arrived in Rome in the Spring, so England's SC count didn't change.) I worried for a moment that London army could convoy LON-->ENG-->MAO-->WES-->TYS-->ROM. And, since my idea is to leave Rome vacant ... But I think that would be a very poor move from England's perspective. Unless bot-England is reading this forum, it can't possibly know that I'll be vacating Rome. It would be foolish to tie up 4 fleets to try that convoy. Time to ready up.

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Yep. England did exactly as I predicted and fell into the trap: TUS-->ROM supported by TYS. That fleet is toast in the Autumn. The army held in London, as did the fleets in ENG and MAO. The only really interesting move was Germany's Burgundy army. It went to Marseilles, currently owned by England. There's nothing I can do about that in the Autumn. I have to focus on taking Rome back and destroying the English fleet. I'll be watching what that German army does, though.
DougJoe wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:48 pm
Germany is definitely a power that I feel like I should do better with than I do - I've seen others on the boards say that Germany is easy or their best power against the bots.

Recap of Spring 01...
I decided to play Kie-Den, Ber-Kie, Mun-Ruh. I went back and looked and it's the opening I've played the most as Germany by a wide margin.

England played to NWG/NTH,Yor, which means he's either going to play for BAR/Nwy or Nwy/Bel.
France played the Maginot (glad I didn't try for Bur) which isn't exactly what I wanted to see.
Italy went for Austria (who blocked him out). Not sure I like that, either, except for the fleet probably moving to Tun in the fall, and maybe pushing west?
Russia put the fleet in Rum, not sure if that means he wants to attack Turkey or not. He and Austria bounced in Gal, but Austria's got issues now and might only be getting one this year. Thoughts on Fall 01 later.
I always open KIE-->DEN, BER-->KIE when I play Germany. And usually MUN-->RUH as well, although I have tried MUN-->BUR and MUN hold. Italy and Austria at war probably means a strong Russia and a strong France, neither of which is good for Germany.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#391 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:38 pm

Since my Autumn moves are already decided, and nothing unexpected happened in Italy, I'm going to ready up again (and commentary later). I know Naples is at risk, but only if bot-England does something new and unexpected. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#392 Post by DougJoe » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:45 am

Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:38 pm
Since my Autumn moves are already decided, and nothing unexpected happened in Italy, I'm going to ready up again (and commentary later). I know Naples is at risk, but only if bot-England does something new and unexpected. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
That's a great result! Well done!

I think Germany's move to Mar wasn't an attack on England but more an "I want to come around through Pie towards Ven/Tri" kind of thing... and since England lost a center, he doesn't get to rebuild his unit. This is looking much better for you than it was a couple of turns ago.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:29 pm
DougJoe wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:48 pm
Germany is definitely a power that I feel like I should do better with than I do - I've seen others on the boards say that Germany is easy or their best power against the bots.

Recap of Spring 01...
I decided to play Kie-Den, Ber-Kie, Mun-Ruh. I went back and looked and it's the opening I've played the most as Germany by a wide margin.

England played to NWG/NTH,Yor, which means he's either going to play for BAR/Nwy or Nwy/Bel.
France played the Maginot (glad I didn't try for Bur) which isn't exactly what I wanted to see.
Italy went for Austria (who blocked him out). Not sure I like that, either, except for the fleet probably moving to Tun in the fall, and maybe pushing west?
Russia put the fleet in Rum, not sure if that means he wants to attack Turkey or not. He and Austria bounced in Gal, but Austria's got issues now and might only be getting one this year. Thoughts on Fall 01 later.
I always open KIE-->DEN, BER-->KIE when I play Germany. And usually MUN-->RUH as well, although I have tried MUN-->BUR and MUN hold. Italy and Austria at war probably means a strong Russia and a strong France, neither of which is good for Germany.
Kie-Hol, that's (I think) a given. It's what to do with Ruh and Den this turn that's the challenge. The question, I think, boils down to who I think England is going after. If he's going after me, I have to allow Russia in. If he's going after Russia, I think I want to bounce Russia out. Yor is either going to Bel or Nwy and I'd guess Bur is going to Bel. I'm not sure I want France +3, but I'm not sure I want England in there either, so maybe Ruh-Bel... hopefully that doesn't "anger" either of them too much. I think then that I will bounce Swe, as I don't think there's an E/F going on, and I can support him in if there appears to be after the builds.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#393 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:28 am

DougJoe wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:45 am
Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:38 pm
Since my Autumn moves are already decided, and nothing unexpected happened in Italy, I'm going to ready up again (and commentary later). I know Naples is at risk, but only if bot-England does something new and unexpected. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
That's a great result! Well done!

I think Germany's move to Mar wasn't an attack on England but more an "I want to come around through Pie towards Ven/Tri" kind of thing... and since England lost a center, he doesn't get to rebuild his unit. This is looking much better for you than it was a couple of turns ago.
Thank you! Agreed, things are looking up.

Germany's move from MAR-->PIE wasn't an attack on England either, I suppose. Because, at the same time, the German army in Tyrolia supported my Apulia army moving to Venice! I didn't order APU-->VEN last turn, but I am puzzled what to make of the German bot's support order. Some weird bot-form of peace gesture? He continued attacking me at SEV at the same time ...

I guess my strategic thought right now is to advance the fleets along the Italian coast ASAP, before England and/or Germany have time to figure out a defense. I won't have any new builds for a while, so it's just the units I've got on the board to breach the English defenses. I'll need to be in TUS, ROM, NAP, and ION to overpower TYS and 2 supports. That assumes the MAO fleet stays put, of course. Getting into Tuscany also opens up the option of moving to GoL.
DougJoe wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:45 am
Kie-Hol, that's (I think) a given. It's what to do with Ruh and Den this turn that's the challenge. The question, I think, boils down to who I think England is going after. If he's going after me, I have to allow Russia in. If he's going after Russia, I think I want to bounce Russia out. Yor is either going to Bel or Nwy and I'd guess Bur is going to Bel. I'm not sure I want France +3, but I'm not sure I want England in there either, so maybe Ruh-Bel... hopefully that doesn't "anger" either of them too much. I think then that I will bounce Swe, as I don't think there's an E/F going on, and I can support him in if there appears to be after the builds.
I see these moves have processed, and you're in Spr '02. Without giving away the plot, it looks like your moves were well-chosen and you're in decent shape.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#394 Post by DougJoe » Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:26 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:28 am

Thank you! Agreed, things are looking up.

Germany's move from MAR-->PIE wasn't an attack on England either, I suppose. Because, at the same time, the German army in Tyrolia supported my Apulia army moving to Venice! I didn't order APU-->VEN last turn, but I am puzzled what to make of the German bot's support order. Some weird bot-form of peace gesture? He continued attacking me at SEV at the same time ...

I guess my strategic thought right now is to advance the fleets along the Italian coast ASAP, before England and/or Germany have time to figure out a defense. I won't have any new builds for a while, so it's just the units I've got on the board to breach the English defenses. I'll need to be in TUS, ROM, NAP, and ION to overpower TYS and 2 supports. That assumes the MAO fleet stays put, of course. Getting into Tuscany also opens up the option of moving to GoL.
Not the first time I've seen a bot do things that seem to be inconsistent. I don't know why the bot would want you to be in Venice except for the expectation of help against Russia?

Otherwise, yup, get the fleets up the coast.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:28 am
I see these moves have processed, and you're in Spr '02. Without giving away the plot, it looks like your moves were well-chosen and you're in decent shape.
Yeah, it's ok. Meant to write something but the weekend was not... optimal.
Fall 1901 recap:
England - He tried for Belgium and put the fleet in Nwy, which implies he's not going after Russia. That leaves Germany or France, and F Lon could go either way... and I'm a little concerned it's coming mine (Lon-NTH, NTH-SKA).
France - Nothing unusual and built F Bre, so maybe that will put pressure on England. Maybe.
Italy - Rom-Tus was odd (maybe just so Rom-Ven wouldn't get bounced?) but took Tun with a fleet and built one. No idea where those are going.
Austria - He's lucky that Rum is a fleet, but Russia did still move to Gal. Italy's not in Tyo, so that's good for him, but not sure where he's going to grow.
Russia - Well, he built army StP with his build. Based on his position in the south, wondering if he's going to try to rotate units there or what... and/or try to push on Swe and hope he gets something there.
Turkey - Not much to say about Turkey.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#395 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:28 am

I got busy the last couple of days. I've finally had a chance to review the map and I've settled on these orders for Spr '14:

TUS-->VEN supported by ADR
ROM-->TUS
ION-->NAP supported by APU
EAS-->ION supported by AEG

There's a chance England will make a concerted attack on Tuscany, and my Rome fleet won't advance. But I think it's more likely the Piedmont army goes for the empty SC at Venice for the umpteenth time, and the TYS fleet holds. Even if I can't advance to Tuscany, my other moves should all succeed. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Hmm. Not bad. Not great. I was kind of wondering when England would advance the MAO fleet. And I thought Germany might make a concerted attack on the English army at Piedmont. I even considered support-holding Piedmont, but it seemed too passive.

I did *not* anticipate TUN-->ION with support. I probably should have. What else did TYS have to support? That's unfortunate. Had I thought it through more, I wonder if I would have tried APU support TUS-->VEN, ION-->NAP with no support, and EAS-->ION with 2 supports.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#396 Post by DougJoe » Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:22 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:28 am
I got busy the last couple of days. I've finally had a chance to review the map and I've settled on these orders for Spr '14:

TUS-->VEN supported by ADR
ROM-->TUS
ION-->NAP supported by APU
EAS-->ION supported by AEG

There's a chance England will make a concerted attack on Tuscany, and my Rome fleet won't advance. But I think it's more likely the Piedmont army goes for the empty SC at Venice for the umpteenth time, and the TYS fleet holds. Even if I can't advance to Tuscany, my other moves should all succeed. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Hmm. Not bad. Not great. I was kind of wondering when England would advance the MAO fleet. And I thought Germany might make a concerted attack on the English army at Piedmont. I even considered support-holding Piedmont, but it seemed too passive.

I did *not* anticipate TUN-->ION with support. I probably should have. What else did TYS have to support? That's unfortunate. Had I thought it through more, I wonder if I would have tried APU support TUS-->VEN, ION-->NAP with no support, and EAS-->ION with 2 supports.
I think it's ok, although the German consolidating Pie/Tyo is kind of annoying. Better to have the bot units mixed so they have to coordinate instead of all the units being under one bot's control.
[/quote]
DougJoe wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:26 pm
Fall 1901 recap:
England - He tried for Belgium and put the fleet in Nwy, which implies he's not going after Russia. That leaves Germany or France, and F Lon could go either way... and I'm a little concerned it's coming mine (Lon-NTH, NTH-SKA).
France - Nothing unusual and built F Bre, so maybe that will put pressure on England. Maybe.
Italy - Rom-Tus was odd (maybe just so Rom-Ven wouldn't get bounced?) but took Tun with a fleet and built one. No idea where those are going.
Austria - He's lucky that Rum is a fleet, but Russia did still move to Gal. Italy's not in Tyo, so that's good for him, but not sure where he's going to grow.
Russia - Well, he built army StP with his build. Based on his position in the south, wondering if he's going to try to rotate units there or what... and/or try to push on Swe and hope he gets something there.
Turkey - Not much to say about Turkey.
Running out of time for this phase...

As Germany vs. bots, I'm honestly a little more wary of France than England, only because France's traditional win path goes through England then Germany, where bot England seems to be willing to go *around* Germany, either to the north through Russia or the south through MAO and Iberia. I seem to end up favoring the alliance with England... but in this case, I don't think I want that English army in Belgium...

I can try for Burgundy (which might get England on side) I can try for Belgium (which might annoy both E/F) or I *can* do nothing this turn and see what the other powers do... which weirdly is what is appealing to me right now... so that's what I'm going to do...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#397 Post by DougJoe » Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:02 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:22 pm
Running out of time for this phase...

As Germany vs. bots, I'm honestly a little more wary of France than England, only because France's traditional win path goes through England then Germany, where bot England seems to be willing to go *around* Germany, either to the north through Russia or the south through MAO and Iberia. I seem to end up favoring the alliance with England... but in this case, I don't think I want that English army in Belgium...

I can try for Burgundy (which might get England on side) I can try for Belgium (which might annoy both E/F) or I *can* do nothing this turn and see what the other powers do... which weirdly is what is appealing to me right now... so that's what I'm going to do...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
Well, that didn't really turn out the way I expected:
England: he support moved to ENG instead of convoying so he got in instead of France.
France: he just defended Burgundy and also didn't go for Bel, but moved to Mar and MAO.
Italy: Looks like he wants to pile on Austria.
Russia: Tried to move to Swe, bounced with E & G, also tried to move to Nwy.
Turkey: Tried for Serbia, moved to AEG. Probably takes Gre this turn.
Austria: He's got Italy and Turkey coming at him, and Russia's not helping. Not a good outlook for Austria.

Predictions:
France: MAO S Bre-ENC, Par-Pic, Mar S Bur.
England: NTH S ENC (or) NTH C Yor-Bel S ENC.
Russia: Probably the same again, GOB-Swe, Stp-Nwy.

I think I'm going to go for Sweden *and* Belgium: Den S Bal-SWE, Ruh S Hol-Bel , Mun S Ruh...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#398 Post by DougJoe » Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:56 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:02 pm

Well, that didn't really turn out the way I expected:
England: he support moved to ENG instead of convoying so he got in instead of France.
France: he just defended Burgundy and also didn't go for Bel, but moved to Mar and MAO.
Italy: Looks like he wants to pile on Austria.
Russia: Tried to move to Swe, bounced with E & G, also tried to move to Nwy.
Turkey: Tried for Serbia, moved to AEG. Probably takes Gre this turn.
Austria: He's got Italy and Turkey coming at him, and Russia's not helping. Not a good outlook for Austria.

Predictions:
France: MAO S Bre-ENC, Par-Pic, Mar S Bur.
England: NTH S ENC (or) NTH C Yor-Bel S ENC.
Russia: Probably the same again, GOB-Swe, Stp-Nwy.

I think I'm going to go for Sweden *and* Belgium: Den S Bal-SWE, Ruh S Hol-Bel , Mun S Ruh...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
Well, an interesting result. Not sure it was a *good* result, but an interesting one. I got France's moves sort of right (MAO/Bre/Par) and wrong (Bur went for Bel). I hedged my bets on England, but he did do the second set. I didn't predict what he would do with Nwy, which I wasn't really worried about because I didn't think him trying for Swe again would be an issue...

...except the Russian bot played a very interesting set of moves in the north, supporting England to Sweden, blocking me out, and trying to slide behind England into Norway. Maybe that set of moves is obvious, but I think that was a pretty good idea for the bot.

I did get Belgium, though, so +1.

Russia also got into Bud, so he gets a build. Austria's in trouble. Turkey, to me, already looks really strong.

Thinking army Kie for my build.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#399 Post by Trigfea63 » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:53 pm

Agree with army Kiel. Still, you have a guess to defend Belgium in the Spring unless England intervenes (F LON-->ENG could be helpful). Also agree on Turkey looking strong. As is Russia BTW, maybe more of a concern for Germany. You have to root for Italy to pick up Trieste and Vienna in the carve-up of Austria. That never lasts too long against a solid R/T though.

In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I'm thinking I should order EAS-->ION with 2 supports this time, to make sure that fleet advances. That means APU support-hold VEN. (I can't leave Venice undefended any more, with 2 German armies on it now.) Round things out with NAP-->ROM, TUS-->GoL, and the usual support-holds in the East. I don't expect the Tuscany fleet to make it to GoL. Hopefully I'll be able to keep the English fleet out at least. If I did get in, that would be pretty awesome. Moving the Naples fleet puts Naples at risk in an Autumn season. But the risk seems low that the English F TYS will move. I expect England will order TUN-->ION supported by TYS again.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#400 Post by Trigfea63 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 6:52 am

These moves feel right to me. I'm going to ready up. I could be guessing wrong, but I'm not going to change my mind. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Pretty good! England again moved exactly as I predicted. Germany ordered all support-holds. England built another army, in Edinburgh, to replace the one destroyed at Piedmont. It would be great if those armies convoyed into German territory, but I seriously doubt they will.

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