MAFIA 75: TROUBLE AT THE PRECINCT [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

but also ok.

while you’re working on big research post… why hb over vec? just in short terms

vecna has failed to do much either way for a while, while Princess Brian has been very scummy for a while now, to me

[President Eden]

i c

vec’s insistence that you were busing byz + abject refusal to vote byz really stuck with me

[bo_sox48]

Who actually scumread Neon’s slot before EON2? I don’t remember Neon being such obvious scum as basically everyone seems to be on board with now.

[Bonatogether]

Who actually scumread Neon’s slot before EON2? I don’t remember Neon being such obvious scum as basically everyone seems to be on board with now.

i believe i did

[bo_sox48]

Neon got within one vote of snowy on D2 I suppose.

[Bonatogether]

yeah i did

[Bonatogether]

[President Eden]

neon was kind of a blur alignment wise for me

felt like i argued with her a lot about stuff that wasn’t necessarily alignment-indicative that colored my impression of her

[ghug]

Who actually scumread Neon’s slot before EON2? I don’t remember Neon being such obvious scum as basically everyone seems to be on board with now.

We almost killed her instead of Sabi.

[Bonatogether]

why Princess Brian needs to meet the big shroom in the sky
pensees
by bona together

edit: this shit turned into an iso, im mad

I fundamentally disagree with this. I call people's reads on my town slot as town suspect all the time. The wolves have all the knowledge so it is dangerous to not point out when people are reading you town when you don't see the reason behind it.

this isn't something i called out at the time but pontificating about strategy is kinda scummy cause it looks like brain but it's not

Rumi is town. Weird play style but town. Fite me.

I have a 100% accuracy on TRing weird play in games where I TR weird play that I'm willing to talk about.

mention #1 of the weird play business that neon was harping about

what do you think of events thus far?

No idea. It feels like a ton of things I'm supposed to have opinions on I barely notice, but the things I do have opinions on are things I shouldn't. I don't know what to think anymore. Kinda lowkey feels like I should just sit down, shut up, and let the big kids do their thing because I'm out of place and don't really belong.

Was only suspicious of Eden because there was too much interest in engaging with me and feeling out my view that nobody else had done. I often assume if anyone is interested in me, my interests, my opinions, or just what I have to say, there's an ulterior motive

Please keep playing how you play

A. Your the easiest person to find as town ever

B. Your the only one so far that I've been able to base readable content off of

C. I do things that other people think is weird and read things nobody else reads into and I got voted into champs in my community because I can approach the game differently and see things nobody else sees. Your play might be weird to other people but it's also generated by far the most readable content in this game keep being you.

mention #2 of same

I am clearly bad at mafia because I exclusively trust other people's personal mafia experiences. Unless I think they are teamed.

How many games of mafia have you played?

I hate this question and refuse to answer it on principle. It is never beneficial to answer.

this interaction (entire thing not quoted for obvious reasons) was strange and idk what to make of it but i'm leaving it here

Rumi I posted a vibe check. I explained. Why I think she's town.

I don't disagree with your take. But the defensiveness (and imo, subtextual implications of community insularity) are something I am familiar with both personally and as a third-party observer to other friends. In addition, I don't think it's actually accomplishing anything productive.

Defensiveness is well within my meta as scum and town it is highly NAI

there were several posts saying that they were within the town and scum metas, not gonna quote them all but you get the idea from this. not why sabi insisted on townreading them so hard after those lol

it gets asked of every new player here because it establishes a baseline of what can be expected and provides data about the person in a way that everyone else can utilize.

I'm not surprised you were asked when it's an obvious question lmao. if you don't want to compromise on it, that's on you, but it's frankly counterproductive and bullheaded

*insert anime sip emoji*

How does my experience level have any singular bearing on what to expect from me. That is invalid.

Allow an example

Player 1 answers the question "I'm new" and is expected as a baseline to make mistakes and they do

Player 2 answers the same way the expectations remain the same they proceed to solve the game day 1 nobody believes their reads they are ignored they lose.

Yes these have both happened. One was in champs.

Player 1 answers "I've played many games" they are expected to contribute and understand mafia principles they do but they play in a strange way nobody understands they are killed for it they are Town.

Player 2 answers the same the expectation is the same they use the basic mafia ideas to easily hide as town and win the game in a clean sweep.

Yes these have both happened.

The question is not beneficial it only serves to form a false idea of how a player should play and can be used easily by wolves to spin a tale.

post number #3 claiming strange solving methods. so far: 0 posts actually using such methods.

I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that it's not performative and that Sabi is very very good at finding town and running with them to attempt to solve the game. I can also say that's exactly how I play lol.

maybe that's why sabi was in an antitunnel

I think we should give snowy an independent chance to prove the nature of their own slot and not base the reads on the slot on another player who was admittedly busy and clearly overwhelmed by the activity and expectations in this game and unready to balance it with other commitments.

I can vibe with that feeling too, joining a game because you want to play with a friend and immediately falling behind and feeling overwhelmed by other commitments

aware some people actually play like this but this shit is convenient

hmm

Holy shit. AM I ALLOWED TO FUCKING BE WRONG?

I Get it. I am not allowed to have opinions. From now on. You tell me how to vote for and I'll do it. Done.

I'm trying very very hard not to scum read the constant AtE... I'm trying very very hard to grapple with the fact that my town clear was heavily based on the constant AtE...

there's a period from late d1 through n1 that's backing off of the toob. there's several posts like this (notably eden calls her dismissive of rumi and there's a back and forth), but the reasoning isn't very convincing at all - no connection to why the toob would do this as scum and not just as confused new town, especially, as is highlighting in the post i quote, that same pattern of behavior was used to justify calling the toob 'lock town'. this finally culminates in a d2 vote

reading the *insert anime jifs* gets old real fast

she did the shit with the name tag confusion

##Vote Snowy

##End

Okay I think I'm mostly okay with this slot just going the way of the dodo. They've not even attempted to contribute I'm willing to judge the slot on its own content but there just isn't any. They've shown no interest in doing much outside of very little questioning with no followup. They've shown no interest in learning how thread state got to where it is in general and in regard to their slot.

They've shown very little interest in defending themself like they know it's a foregone conclusion they will just die...ig that's NAI but I'd want a townie who subbed into a doomed slot to at least try to fight to dance their slot.

I could see from a scum perspective a world where Snowy took the Deathbomb and is just basically sitting on their death to take a towny with them but if the slot is scum as I think it is and against my better judgement as a player who likes to save every single townie I can I think this is the only option today.

after the weird leave snowy to do their own thing, ignore byz n all. i slapped a bus emoji on this at the time like a champ
seriously though, tell me this doesn't read like a bus

then the getting mad at son2, which was like ???

Or what? Your going to get town to mis kill me too? I welcome that reality please bring about my swift death tomorrow.

I will be on you with an end vote every day until you die or I die I've always wanted a Thunder Dome give it to me.

If I had a penny for every time someone told me this

Well I'd probably have like 3 pence but it's weird that it happens so often

So Princess what is it about me that's so obviously scum?

*looks at the previous two EoDs*

Yanno I really don't know why I scum read you. Weird.

this feels like a joke but they say it several other times and never elaborate or clarify.

exit stage left
enter HB

he spends a lot of time going like 'lmao what's going on guys please im lost'

he's self defecating

his reads list is boring but he townreads me so that's good

i'll include it for vanity purposes

THings that stand out based on D1 reads part 1.

Bona really seemed to employ a sense of Byz meta as scum to call them out on it; was in it with PEden. Both really seemed to drive that train, as far as I can see right now. I think it would be a large problem for the scum team to bus THAT hard unless they felt confident that the other wagon would happen, which…it did. As of this reading, those two are high town.

The chief reason I am not looking at Bona as hardscum right now is because the vote on Byz on D1 was made with 5 hours to go and no change at all. Not sure when the END vote was made, and too lazy to look up right now, but a confident mafia team might make that gutsy play, and make it two days in a row. The bussing looks good, gives lots of town credit.

oh shit the shrooms man can't keep his story straight. zero progression between high town with eden and just one reason away from hardscum (still says im bussing byz) for context, vecna was doing similar stuff at the same time in thread.

he also asked for this post so here it is


in conclusion im right

[Bonatogether]

the shit i posted has varying degrees of usefulness but hopefully someone will look at the better parts

[President Eden]

alright time to grade your work

this isn’t something i called out at the time but pontificating about strategy is kinda scummy cause it looks like brain but it’s not

This is not alignment-indicative IMO, but if Neon also called people out for pontificating on strategy that is

mention #1 of the weird play business that neon was harping about

Good find. The ‘weird play’ thing itself is whatever to me, but that post is overexplaining the easiest read in this whole game (Rumi town). I guess I was pressing Rumi at that point and Byz had done a bit of pressing too, but I remember by about the time that post was made that we were coming around to Rumi being town. Feels a bit like mafia needing to justify their townread.

mention #2 of same

Not alignment-indicative just vanity posting (not that I have any issue with that! not meant insultingly just that experienced people new to a given community will tend to talk about themselves more to establish their cred)

this interaction (entire thing not quoted for obvious reasons) was strange and idk what to make of it but i’m leaving it here

That felt like a genuinely principled NAI take to me.

there were several posts saying that they were within the town and scum metas, not gonna quote them all but you get the idea from this. not why sabi insisted on townreading them so hard after those lol

NAI attempt at honesty or experienced player new to community telling a bit on themselves for cred? We report, you decide

post number #3 claiming strange solving methods. so far: 0 posts actually using such methods.

Questionable interpretation of that post, but good on you for pointing out no solving via such methods beyond the game’s easiest read (Rumi town).

maybe that’s why sabi was in an antitunnel

I think you might need to revisit SIMP analysis

aware some people actually play like this but this shit is convenient

With you here. Notable that this came at night (when snowy had just joined, no doubt made an impression in scum chat, and left the team feeling like maybe he could do something with it), and the reluctant pivot onto snowy came the next day (when snowy’s death appeared inevitable and Neon would need to commit to something).

there’s a period from late d1 through n1 that’s backing off of the toob. there’s several posts like this (notably eden calls her dismissive of rumi and there’s a back and forth), but the reasoning isn’t very convincing at all - no connection to why the toob would do this as scum and not just as confused new town, especially, as is highlighting in the post i quote, that same pattern of behavior was used to justify calling the toob ‘lock town’. this finally culminates in a d2 vote

I’m biased as hell here but 100% agree. That specific post really rankled me at the time, though I think I let it go and didn’t press there because I was already arguing with Neon about other stuff. Rumi was transparently not engaging in “AtE” as the mafia community uses it (meaning laying on emotion for the sake of getting an in-game advantage) and was clearly genuinely upset about what was happening. This felt like a cynical withdrawal of support because Rumi was pushing on Neon.

she did the shit with the name tag confusion

Well that’s just town indicative

after the weird leave snowy to do their own thing, ignore byz n all. i slapped a bus emoji on this at the time like a champ
seriously though, tell me this doesn’t read like a bus

Reviewing that after snowy flipped I felt some pride that in my old age at least my son could carry on the mantle of hunting mafia

this feels like a joke but they say it several other times and never elaborate or clarify.

true

he’s self defecating

lmao


i’m skipping the rest

i award your essay an A

we can stay here instead of killing vec

[bo_sox48]

Isn’t declaratively deciding who to vote for several hours into the day exactly what you didn’t want to do a few hours ago?

[bo_sox48]

In response to a suggestion we hammer HB:

I think I rather dunk one of the POE people who aren’t putting any time into the game anymore

tl;dr yes, you did

[bo_sox48]

my debate at this point is that

1) speedrunning Brian with no nighthammers knowing that the mafia is probably going to just strongman Jamie + duel the Doc over ghug is just begging for midgame apathy

but

2) Neon hella sus

You are actually a caricature of your own brain PE

[President Eden]

In response to a suggestion we hammer HB:

I think I rather dunk one of the POE people who aren’t putting any time into the game anymore

tl;dr yes, you did

im not hammering though

[celaph]

rdrivera is pretty town in my mind from EOD1

What felt towny to you about rdr's D1? I can see his driving comments and can explain his inaction as not actively scummy, but I'm not seeing towny here.

[Rumi Tobari]

I don't disagree with your take. But the defensiveness (and imo, subtextual implications of community insularity) are something I am familiar with both personally and as a third-party observer to other friends. In addition, I don't think it's actually accomplishing anything productive.

Defensiveness is well within my meta as scum and town it is highly NAI

there were several posts saying that they were within the town and scum metas, not gonna quote them all but you get the idea from this. not why sabi insisted on townreading them so hard after those lol

What got me about this part is that it didn't refute anything I was saying. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what makes something NAI, but if defensiveness is actually part of her scum meta, then she can't call it NAI, because it's totally potentially AI.

My impression of her answer to my question on her defensiveness being AI with a "yes, but no."

And the next time I brought it up, was framed in reference to the idea that either her or Sabi were scum (and also mentioning that she changed her tune on whether Snowy would be judged against Byz very quickly), and she got mad and refuted that with bright red font, which started an argument with both her and Sabi being annoyed with my read led to the whole thing where she was accusing me of AtE.

[Rumi Tobari]

we can stay here instead of killing vec

One question, since I don't know any of you very well.

Since we're so sure Neon/HB is scum, why was Jamie so insistent that we kill Vecna if he died?

[President Eden]

Defensiveness is well within my meta as scum and town it is highly NAI

there were several posts saying that they were within the town and scum metas, not gonna quote them all but you get the idea from this. not why sabi insisted on townreading them so hard after those lol

What got me about this part is that it didn’t refute anything I was saying. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what makes something NAI, but if defensiveness is actually part of her scum meta, then she can’t call it NAI, because it’s totally potentially AI.

My impression of her answer to my question on her defensiveness being AI with a “yes, but no.”

And the next time I brought it up, was framed in reference to the idea that either her or Sabi were scum (and also mentioning that she changed her tune on whether Snowy would be judged against Byz very quickly), and she got mad and refuted that with bright red font, which started an argument with both her and Sabi being annoyed with my read led to the whole thing where she was accusing me of AtE.

she was saying defensiveness is normal for her; if it helps, add this semicolon:

“Defensiveness is well within my meta as scum and town; it is highly NAI.”

that said, I very much did not like her progression in that conversation (which I think I called out)… but not knowing her, I wasn’t sure if it was just a personality clash or actually scummy. I think especially after snowByz flipped scum, I am just going with my gut reaction that no one would really act in that bad of faith without a bad faith agenda and assume scummy.