M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

Let's resolve Damo first then.

##Vote Damo.

@Sabi this is why scum doesn't NK Jamie.

Ouch.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote Maniac

Now there are votes on all three prime suspects.
The lead wagons are tied.
What will happen next?

[DeathLlama8]

I'd prefer a damo vote to bona/maniac, and a damo scum flip would be really good for us, but I'm not really convinced the VCA points that clearly to damo being scum / the EOD movement off damo being scum-driven.

if there's something I'm missing I'd love to hear it (tfb/jamie probably) but if scum are committed to an early vote of scum!damo I really don't see them jumping off at the last minute to save him - they're more likely to either not vote him in the first place, or bus him and claim towncred for doing so.

[DeathLlama8]

celaph, maniac and I are the ones that have very long periods without posting, probably due to different circumstances, celaph I give you having him at town with the post quality and stuff, but maniac where had maniac offered his own opinions? where is his drive or follow-up, where is his engagement in hunting? I've made my opinions clear, especially compared to what maniac posted, taking both next to each other just reads as glorifying maniac and smearing me. in case that's not what you are doing, you should have another look at us. I'm pretty sure if you compare us you'll see that too.

also it's not really what you posted, it's you first posted a read list hours before the end (which okish if you don't have time afterwards/has to go to sleep/something like that, but every early information before EoN helps mafia to find the best target in the night) but then still engage in the night, it's like you didn't fear to be the target at night. It's not like you missed the time like some clock-incompetent Austrian. Yeah you said something before of school and things, but you still could've saved it in a draft and send it later in a break closer to EoN, right? You posted an hour and a half after your readlist again. Before all that I expected either you, celaph or snowy to be the target, so why weren't you more concerned?

1. at that point your contributions had been an EON1 reads list where every read except the damo one was hedged ("they could be scum, but they could also be town!"), a few questions to damo, and a few other questions that honestly seemed pretty neutral. That's really easily faked as scum since you don't need to commit to specific positions to ask questions, and you never seem especially interested in convincing other people to vote damo (e.g. when you ask me if I townread damo, I reply, and then you leave for a day). Even now, you seem way more interested in judging us for not voting damo than actually pushing damo.

Compare this to maniac, who has obviously posted way less content but has committed openly to townreads on pyxxy and damo, on his entire wagon, reasoned scumreads on jamie/bona, and at least tried to get people on jamie late.

2. I wasn't online at EON and made the last few posts from class, which I didn't know I would have time to send. I'd imagine this "scumtell" is basically NAI if you analyze past games with it, and the fact that you're especially worried that damo, who I would bet actual money on never being nightkilled this game, would post reads early is kinda weird to me.

[DeathLlama8]

if you want to help me out you could start by explaining your other strongest reads, or trying to get me onto damo

[DeathLlama8]

is there a case on bona?

[DeathLlama8]

not really sure what to make of the top two wagons being reruns. I'm getting m1020 vibes and I don't like it

[Maniac]

##vote bona

I get this sense that everyone is town and Eden and Ghug are running some experiment here.

We're at 7 town 3 scum. The worst thing we can do now is bring in new wagon. Snowy, Aaro and Rdriveria all had damo and bona as scum. I won't vote outside this pairing today. I can't see any other candidate getting wide support.

[Bonatogether]

Having said the Snowy kill was obvious something has occurred to me.

If I were scum I would be tempted to leave him alive because his mere survival would make him a target of suspicion.

This leads me to think the scumteam may be inexperienced at being scum.

Something like Sabi Bona Pyxxy ?

##vote Bona

the last time you irrationally tunneled me you were scum
##vote damo

I'm not tunnelling you. You just happen to be one of the few people I don't townread.

'

I am approaching certain that one of these wagons is scum.

If you mean the current wagons then if you are right it is Bona.

as i see it, there's a difference between 'i believe this person is scum', and 'i'm absolutely 100% without a doubt convinced this person is scum'. I believe the name for it is tunneling

[Bonatogether]

looking at D2 votes I find the following of interest:

5 minutes out Maniac voted Bona making it Bona 3 Kak 2 aaro 2 me 2

Subsequently DL moved from Kak to aaro and TFB moved from me to aaro.

Could either or both of these been to protect Bona?

I think Bona is the right kill for today. If he flips scum then strongly consider TFB next.

Could either of both of those given reasons in thread that lined up with their previous and later statements? Curious.

[Bonatogether]

##Vote Bonatogether because I'm tunnelling* on him.

*Is this sarcasm?

i'd assume it is, because you've been reasonable about the whole thing

[Bonatogether]

These are my possible scumteams using initial letter abbreviations as follows:

Frequency count is as follows with the first being total appearances and the second excluding triplets with any of the town 3

Celaph 21 0
TFB 20 8
Pyxxy 18 8
DLamp 15 5
Kak 15 5
Sabi 14 5
Jamie 14 0
Bona 9 5
Maniac 5 0

Bona is surprsingly low on the list. This analysis makes TFB the best vote.

this only means anything if all your assumptions are correct. I also can't tell the bold and not-bold apart so idek what's going on there.

[Bonatogether]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

Being right isn't a towntell, and that's like half your reasoning gone right there.

[Bonatogether]

BDP
BDT
BKP
BKT
BPT
DMT
DPS
DPT
DST
KPS
KPT
KST
PST

This is the list excluding C, J and M. Mainly for my own benefit.

why can I never be on a team with sabi? I don't get what you think these are the only possible teams

[DeathLlama8]

We're at 7 town 3 scum. The worst thing we can do now is bring in new wagon. Snowy, Aaro and Rdriveria all had damo and bona as scum. I won't vote outside this pairing today. I can't see any other candidate getting wide support.

The worst thing we can do today is to miskill again. A scum!damo kill is probably better for us than any other scum kill, but I'm not really convinced a damo-bona EOD gives us the two best shots at scum or would be especially informative

[DeathLlama8]

bona, why do you think you're a wagon today?

[DeathLlama8]

Having said the Snowy kill was obvious something has occurred to me.

If I were scum I would be tempted to leave him alive because his mere survival would make him a target of suspicion.

This leads me to think the scumteam may be inexperienced at being scum.

Something like Sabi Bona Pyxxy ?

vote Bona

Why those three in particular, and why do you think the entire scumteam has to be inexperienced at being scum for a snowy kill? kinda seems like a weak reason to move off kak

[Bonatogether]

##vote bona

I get this sense that everyone is town and Eden and Ghug are running some experiment here.

We're at 7 town 3 scum. The worst thing we can do now is bring in new wagon. Snowy, Aaro and Rdriveria all had damo and bona as scum. I won't vote outside this pairing today. I can't see any other candidate getting wide support.

honestly 100% possible

[Bonatogether]

##vote bona

I get this sense that everyone is town and Eden and Ghug are running some experiment here.

We're at 7 town 3 scum. The worst thing we can do now is bring in new wagon. Snowy, Aaro and Rdriveria all had damo and bona as scum. I won't vote outside this pairing today. I can't see any other candidate getting wide support.

honestly 100% possible

also, snowy had me as scum???

[Bonatogether]

bona, why do you think you're a wagon today?

cause i had a good game as town last game and this time around i've failed to match that in real way.