M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

Explain why not all three?

Because that would be a world where Damo and Bona are bussing each other quite hard while Damo zealously defends his other team mate, Maniac, who is hiding.

Oh wait. That's actually fairly plausible. Damn.

Maybe it's the cough/cold meds but I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

No I'm serious, you're totally right, that's a plausible take.

[pyxxy]

That's plausible but could you have not used the bot and quickly realized what the votes were?

I mean I did, I came back online some time between -00:05 (I remember checking my phone outside and seeing it was 4:55pm PT my time) and when I posted my "ah dang im late" message

but without having read the thread and seen Bona's unvote, which I don't remember seeing in the bot probably because I was focusing the wagons, I was just incredibly confused about how the heck he was leading. And I got so much flak for almost tying the votes last game. I'm not risking that again.

[TheFlyingBoat]

@TFB: How the [redacted] is Celaph your #1 top best townread?

Have you read my EoN?

It appears you think Celaph is town because he declared he townread Aaro.

That's enough to make someone your **strongest** townread?

No, it's not because he townread aaro. It's how he did it and walked through his progressions that made me like it. That combined with D2 convinced me it wasn't a pocket attempt. I also have liked Celaph since D1.

This is the most relevant explanation as to why:

[...]

That being said, I think Celaph's posts seem reasonably good vs what I saw last game as his partner so I think I'm good to pull off there. Rdr's seemingly intentionally fake vote plus one post and gone behavior reminds me of ghug last game so ##VOTE rdr.

@TFB, can you comment about what you liked in my contributions that you didn't see in my last game? Because if I'm being honest, I don't see a big difference so far.

Example quote from last game for comparison:

Regarding Jamie, I think his actions far more scream someone who is frustrated than someone who doesn't want to play mafia. If he didn't want to play mafia, he could just not play mafia.

On the point about rdr, I agree that I was also offput by his opening post, hence my vote, but I don't see the need to connect it to ghug. You can say something is scummy without needing to compare it to a recent example of known scum. Also, ghug posted 11 times within an hour of his first post so I don't see the comparison.

Oh it wasn't a contribution thing so much as a style thing. Funnily enough you probably "contributed" more times last game at a similar point in time than here because you were obviously trying to deliberately fake contributions. You seemed much more loose this game than last game. Last game you checked in pretty quickly and then disappeared for 10 hours after one post. Here you seemed more interested in getting into the game as following your first post you engaged directly for a series of posts before disappearing again.

Most importantly as mentioned at the top, I felt like last game you seemed to want to fake contributions by dancing at the periphery and answering questions/posting comments in a way that gave you maneuverability and didn't pin you down instead of engaging in the most heavily discussed aspects. In this game the reading the setup townslip NAI back and forth discussion, light as it was, was the most talked about thing in the game. Perhaps the lightness is why you felt so comfortable engaging with it in hindsight, but idk at the time I thought it was something. It's not a ton, and certainly isn't enough to get a town read obviously, but it was enough to make me think my vote could do better work on rdr, especially given rdr's posts.

[damo666]

These are my possible scumteams using initial letter abbreviations as follows:

Bona
Celaph
DLamp
Jamie
Kak
Maniac
Pyxxy
Sabi
TFB

I have included everybody for completeness but I think the emboldened 3 are town. Triplets including any of these 3 are similarly emboldened.

BCD
BCK
BCP
BCT
BDP
BDT
BKP
BKT
BPT
CDJ
CDM
CDP
CDS
CDT
CJK
CJP
CJS
CJT
CKM
CKP
CKS
CKT
CMT
CPS
CPT
CST
DJP
DJS
DJT
DMT
DPS
DPT
DST
JKP
JKS
JKT
JPS
JPT
JST
KMT
KPS
KPT
KST
PST

Frequency count is as follows with the first being total appearances and the second excluding triplets with any of the town 3

Celaph 21 0
TFB 20 8
Pyxxy 18 8
DLamp 15 5
Kak 15 5
Sabi 14 5
Jamie 14 0
Bona 9 5
Maniac 5 0

Bona is surprsingly low on the list. This analysis makes TFB the best vote.

[BesharamSabi]

These are my possible scumteams using initial letter abbreviations as follows:

Bona
Celaph
DLamp
Jamie
Kak
Maniac
Pyxxy
Sabi
TFB

I have included everybody for completeness but I think the emboldened 3 are town. Triplets including any of these 3 are similarly emboldened.

BCD
BCK
BCP
BCT
BDP
BDT
BKP
BKT
BPT
CDJ
CDM
CDP
CDS
CDT
CJK
CJP
CJS
CJT
CKM
CKP
CKS
CKT
CMT
CPS
CPT
CST
DJP
DJS
DJT
DMT
DPS
DPT
DST
JKP
JKS
JKT
JPS
JPT
JST
KMT
KPS
KPT
KST
PST

Frequency count is as follows with the first being total appearances and the second excluding triplets with any of the town 3

Celaph 21 0
TFB 20 8
Pyxxy 18 8
DLamp 15 5
Kak 15 5
Sabi 14 5
Jamie 14 0
Bona 9 5
Maniac 5 0

Bona is surprsingly low on the list. This analysis makes TFB the best vote.

This is based off the fact you're the only person town reading Maniac....

You only gave one instance about his towniness that barely holds water.

Damo once again make your case on why Maniac is town.

[damo666]

Damo, let's say hypothetically we are in end game why do you want Maniac to be around for end game?

Because I'd rather town than scum.

Sadly that's the correct answer. We can't afford any miskills just in some kind of wild attempt to reach the perfect endgame. We must catch scum today.

@Damo, I asked you a question about Maniac.

Yes. I'll get to it.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Damo:

Quantitative analysis is all well and good, but your analysis only has any value if you are right about your three top townreads. If one of them is wrong, it completely throws your numbers out of the window and into the nearby swamp.

[BesharamSabi]

Jamiet, you know damo better than the rest of us, is he like this when he's protecting a teammate?

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamiet, you know damo better than the rest of us, is he like this when he's protecting a teammate?

This is a good question but I am not sure.

I will have to review past evidence. Let me try to do that. I am on a train but at least my laptop is able to connect.

[damo666]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

[damo666]

@Damo:

Quantitative analysis is all well and good, but your analysis only has any value if you are right about your three top townreads. If one of them is wrong, it completely throws your numbers out of the window and into the nearby swamp.

Just look at the first number then.

[damo666]

BDP
BDT
BKP
BKT
BPT
DMT
DPS
DPT
DST
KPS
KPT
KST
PST

This is the list excluding C, J and M. Mainly for my own benefit.

[BesharamSabi]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

.... I didn't vote for town aaro or you, does that make me town? Because if that's the standards we are having to being townclears then uhhhh.

[BesharamSabi]

Are our standards for Maniac that low that is all it takes for him to be hardcore town read because uh

[Jamiet99uk]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

I have now done some homework.

Damo, in M72 you were a Mafia Goon. During that game you declared, and stuck to, a very strong townread on your Mafia team-mate Donny Dude, from D1 all the way to your own demise on D8 of the game. Donny consistently bussed your other team mates, but his actual posting was infrequent and very sketchy. So here we have a clear, and relatively recent example of you protecting and covering for a generally inactive team-mate whose posts were bad, but whose voting behaviour looked good because he was bussing with pretty much every vote.

@Sabi: Does that help?

[Jamiet99uk]

You know what else Damo did as scum in M72?

He posted very long lists of possible scum pairings.

[BesharamSabi]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

I have now done some homework.

Damo, in M72 you were a Mafia Goon. During that game you declared, and stuck to, a very strong townread on your Mafia team-mate Donny Dude, from D1 all the way to your own demise on D8 of the game. Donny consistently bussed your other team mates, but his actual posting was infrequent and very sketchy. So here we have a clear, and relatively recent example of you protecting and covering for a generally inactive team-mate whose posts were bad, but whose voting behaviour looked good because he was bussing with pretty much every vote.

@Sabi: Does that help?

Yes it does.

So who would be the third teammate if damo and Maniac are scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

I have now done some homework.

Damo, in M72 you were a Mafia Goon. During that game you declared, and stuck to, a very strong townread on your Mafia team-mate Donny Dude, from D1 all the way to your own demise on D8 of the game. Donny consistently bussed your other team mates, but his actual posting was infrequent and very sketchy. So here we have a clear, and relatively recent example of you protecting and covering for a generally inactive team-mate whose posts were bad, but whose voting behaviour looked good because he was bussing with pretty much every vote.

@Sabi: Does that help?

Yes it does.

So who would be the third teammate if damo and Maniac are scum?

I thought we'd already established that it could be Bonatogether.
Did we not?

[Jamiet99uk]

Let's resolve Damo first then.

##Vote Damo.

[BesharamSabi]

I have now done some homework.

Damo, in M72 you were a Mafia Goon. During that game you declared, and stuck to, a very strong townread on your Mafia team-mate Donny Dude, from D1 all the way to your own demise on D8 of the game. Donny consistently bussed your other team mates, but his actual posting was infrequent and very sketchy. So here we have a clear, and relatively recent example of you protecting and covering for a generally inactive team-mate whose posts were bad, but whose voting behaviour looked good because he was bussing with pretty much every vote.

@Sabi: Does that help?

Yes it does.

So who would be the third teammate if damo and Maniac are scum?

I thought we'd already established that it could be Bonatogether.
Did we not?

Well he's my third. I wasn't aware he was your third. I should have clarified that. Like I said cold meds.