M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[aarodactyl]

Also damo hasn’t done his classic scum tell so he just might be town this game.

would you like to share with the class

Nah. Also I think scum tells are pseudo-science at best. I do have a tell in mind and it hasn't come up, but idk if it's actually a real tell. I guess we'll find out if it happens.

[aarodactyl]

Aarodactyl - Null. Seemed towny to me D1 but has dropped off in participation since then and seems kind of.... flaky?

Yeah, to be honest, I probably shouldn't have joined this game. I mentioned this in the sign up post but I had a huge deadline on Friday. But honestly, next week is going to be just as busy, if not more.

I've just been promising a certain person that may or may not have taken the SAT this last week that I would play mafia again, but playing during the spring might have been a mistake, even in a mini. I don't think I'm actively harming the game with my level or participation but I'm also not able to play as much as back when I was not working.

Also, I guess I can see why I would seem flaky. In my first game, I kept promising to do read lists and whatnot and then I would never get to them. That was honestly a problem I used to have in general, including at my job. I've since started to be more honest about what I have time for, and since this game isn't really a high priority to me right now, I can see why that seems flaky. I think this was true in my other games, but my activity completely dips on weekends. Especially since I still have to get like 4 hours of work to do today (and also a lot of plans and errands), I don't really have a lot of time to sit at my computer and play.

[aarodactyl]

Maybe it's like a truth tell for Rdr? Like he only says he's a VT(TM) when he really is? I'd have to go back and check his previous games to know if this is true...

I'm pretty sure it's true. Maybe rdr couldn't bring himself to lie. That's why I think I he was the NK.

How do you feel about the fact that it was you who first drew attention to this, then?

The whole idea of RDR having a truth tell is pretty silly. Either 1) he does have a truth tell and he needs to cut that out or 2) people are creating a weird false narrative after his death. Both options seem silly.

[aarodactyl]

The only people I am now not townreading are

Kak
TFB *
Sabi
Bona
Aaro *

* these are the 2 towniest of these 5

However there is probably a deepscum I'm townreading.

I would like aaro to write up a VCA.

As I have the advantage of knowing I am town I could glean quite a lot from VCA.

I want to hear from aaro.

On mob and can't remember if I am voting Bona or pyxxy so jic

##vote Bona

I know I just got called flaky by Jamie, but I'm not going to put the time into a VCA right now. If I'm alive D3, I'll try to do one then. Writing one up will take me a long time, and I don't think I've ever done a good job at one.

[aarodactyl]

Don't like the top 3 wagons

Why don't you like Maniac?

[aarodactyl]

concerning boat-bona stand off: if that is mafia theatre, I should stop playing mafia (at least for a while). I think there is max one mafia candidate between the two. For me it looks like it's more likely to be just TvT, but I'm open to your all input @all

I've already said this, but I agree it's probably TvT.

[damo666]

Don't like the top 3 wagons

Why don't you like Maniac?

He wouldn't have unvoted away from me for the reason he gave if he were scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Maniac: While I'm sure the whole community appreciates having you around to enforce the correct use of properly-sized typefaces, is that the only thing you wish to contribute?

You voted Aaro yesterday for frankly awful reasons. What is your view on Aaro today? How about your reads on Bonatogether and Kakottoro?

I think you are being unfair here.

Maniac's post re pyxxy switched my opinion. Also his realisation that I would be unlikely to be discussing the rdr NK in the way I was if I were scum is valuable and Kak and TFB should take particular note.

I think Maniac has made valuable contributions.

Maybe, but his only post in the last 9 or so hours was that one about text size. If he had time to drop back in and respond to that, why couldn't he also respond to things that might be important?

[Jamiet99uk]

I think the picture is clear. + I dunno how it couldn't be the case that rivera was shot for voting aaro. Show me any indication that he was scum that isn't ex post facto justifications and I may reconsider the last point

Noted a typo, meant to say indication that he was PR

Well there was the TM thing, wasn't there?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm spending some time today reviewing my opinion on everyone in the game. I'll post in groups of a few at a time.


Bonatogether - Scum lean. My take at the time was that Bona was applying double standards by hectoring Durga for "evidence" of her read on him, which Durga had clearly stated was just a hunch, while at the same time basing his own apparent scumreads on "awkward interactions".

She was the one who cited awkward interactions and I asked her to give an example, which she couldn't.

She didn't cite "awkward interactions", she cited "awkward vibes". That is, she felt you were coming across as awkward in general. It was a gut read and she made that very clear. You then repeatedly demanded precise examples of specific interactions when that was never what she was saying.

Durga has flipped town and you need to accept that you were wrong about this.

[Bonatogether]

If damo is scum, I think we can safely assume that there's 1 or 2 scum in the last-second cascade onto Durga (snowy, jamie, DL, aaro). Of these, I rank them jamie > snowy > DL > aaro. Observant people would notice that this towniness ranking is essentially the same as the order in which they moved, and this is because I believe that the initial move was towny, but later movers (DL, aaro) had strange given motivations.

If damo is town, then once they saw the pile-on start they did not care. Either possible kill was town. However, blending in with the herd makes sense - thread momentum was behind the Durga kill. I think we can assume about one mafia would make the move. Again, snowy and jamie feel honest to me at this point in time, so this points again to DL and aaro.

I have a hard time reading DL, and aaro already has some steam.

##vote aarodactyl

[Bonatogether]

I'm spending some time today reviewing my opinion on everyone in the game. I'll post in groups of a few at a time.


Bonatogether - Scum lean. My take at the time was that Bona was applying double standards by hectoring Durga for "evidence" of her read on him, which Durga had clearly stated was just a hunch, while at the same time basing his own apparent scumreads on "awkward interactions".

She was the one who cited awkward interactions and I asked her to give an example, which she couldn't.

She didn't cite "awkward interactions", she cited "awkward vibes". That is, she felt you were coming across as awkward in general. It was a gut read and she made that very clear. You then repeatedly demanded precise examples of specific interactions when that was never what she was saying.

Durga has flipped town and you need to accept that you were wrong about this.

She mentions awkward vibes once (1 time) but being awkward in interactions several times (including specifically citing me and pyxxy)

[snowy801]

I think the picture is clear. + I dunno how it couldn't be the case that rivera was shot for voting aaro. Show me any indication that he was scum that isn't ex post facto justifications and I may reconsider the last point

Noted a typo, meant to say indication that he was PR

Well there was the TM thing, wasn't there?

I am confident that rivera has stated prior that such statements are pointless in previous games, though you'll not catch me dead traversing through past games to find said examples

[aarodactyl]

I've been waiting for this post since you've been throwing weird shade at me for what seems like a very long time. So I'm going to take the time to respond to this.

Well the scum slip was more of a one-off comment since for whatever reason those seems to be more impactful than an overall picture description. I was scum reading him a little before that, for what few posts he'd made by then

I looked back at your iso to see what this was referring to. It was in reference to me saying that kak was probably crumbing something? I think calling that a scum slip is a huge stretch, especially considering that once you said it, I realized that there's no way that item giver would crumb. You mentioned it was a 1-off comment so I'll leave my response at that.

I mean if you consider the forest of aaro's actions in day 1,

He put down what I'd consider an early joke vote on tfb
Spent considerable time opening up other viable scum reads on everyone and anyone between his entirely fake reads list and stuff like this viewtopic.php?p=297843#p297843

My vote on TFB wasn't a joke. I legitimately thought that he was doing a fake townslip. Eventually I mostly bought his argument that he had talked about the setup with eden and ghug before the game happened and allegedly before they added the day chat. I think thought that him going to such lengths to justify not reading the setup was scummy though.

Also, I'm typically pretty paranoid in games like this and diplomacy, so I tend to think everyone is lying to me. Tbh, the only reason I didn't have you a scum lean originally is that I thought you were itemgiver and that's why you were doing your weird sandbagging D1. I guess maybe you were trying to draw a NK but idk.

The latter of which I may point out just listed a number of people other people said might be willing to vote as their most likely scum reads

Then had a very revealing conversation about "wanting to kill people he'd be least sad about miskilling"

I think that the way that mafia typically wins is the following:

1) you have some members lurk/be medium posters
2) you kill off the highest posters
3) the game grinds to a halt because the people driving content stop posting
4) people just vote random people and then chaqa wins

As a result, I'd rather keep around people that shown they're still going to play the game in the late game even if they get it wrong sometimes. And honestly, even if they're mafia, if they're still posting, that's still pro-town in my eyes. So I wouldn't want to kill one of those people on D1 when we have no info anyways. I don't know why this has been some confusing considering I've explained it a few times already.

Did not give two shits about how d1 ended

Bailed entirely on n1

Yes, I am very sorry for not being around on the day that I said I wouldn't be around on before the game even started. That was a grave sin, and you should definitely vote me out for it.

Also, I don't think it's a fair characterization to say that I didn't care about how D1 ended. I was pretty consistently saying that I was down to vote Damo or Durga and then I voted them? I'm not really sure why you're trying to paint me otherwise.

And then spent d2 not scum reading anyone but looking for entirely mechanical reasons to vote for people

Can you point me to a single thing I've done for the sake of mechanics? Also, I ever if I did, I don't think that's inherently a bad thing. But also what mechanics are there at this point?

I think the picture is clear. + I dunno how it couldn't be the case that rivera was shot for voting aaro. Show me any indication that he was scum that isn't ex post facto justifications and I may reconsider the last point

But I guess the biggest reason is I feel like he is, so he probably is. Hasn't failed me yet

Why would I shoot rdr? Tbh until this post, I didn't even remember that they ended on me. However, I do remember that they weren't active at eod, and looking back, they voted me when I was the leading wagon. I think you've tried pushing this narrative a few times, and I think it's a pretty poor reason.

But I guess the biggest reason is I feel like he is, so he probably is. Hasn't failed me yet

oh lol. I read through and responded to all of it that for your main reason to be that you have a gut instinct that I'm scum after never playing with me before? Honestly, I get why people usually D1 you now.

[aarodactyl]

2) His final vote indicates that, even generously assuming he was busy with IRL things, he was available to view the vague progress of the wagons. He made no attempt to influence the results. Voting to avoid a tie was meaningless, as there would not have been a tie, as there never would be any game

Wait, are you seriously saying that there wasn't a risk of a tie during D1? The votes were split 7-5, so it just takes one person to switch to make it a 6-6.

[aarodactyl]

If damo is scum, I think we can safely assume that there's 1 or 2 scum in the last-second cascade onto Durga (snowy, jamie, DL, aaro). Of these, I rank them jamie > snowy > DL > aaro. Observant people would notice that this towniness ranking is essentially the same as the order in which they moved, and this is because I believe that the initial move was towny, but later movers (DL, aaro) had strange given motivations.

If damo is town, then once they saw the pile-on start they did not care. Either possible kill was town. However, blending in with the herd makes sense - thread momentum was behind the Durga kill. I think we can assume about one mafia would make the move. Again, snowy and jamie feel honest to me at this point in time, so this points again to DL and aaro.

I have a hard time reading DL, and aaro already has some steam.

##vote aarodactyl

Why was switching a 7-5 to a 8-4 with a minute to go scummy? At that point, either Durga was dying or there was going to be a tie.

[BesharamSabi]

@sabi you missed my question I had for you regarding boat man. Please response to that in your next (or one of your next) posts, especially since you skipped the 'wallpost analysis'

Apologies Kak I didn't see it but here it is:

I really like boats post just now. It feels very different from the posts last game where he was mafia. He also puts some things I feel suspicious about damo into better words than I.

But I might be fooled, so @Sabi what do you think about boats post just now?

Honestly it was a struggle to read how Wall posts and arguments with Bona because he literally will write 100 words instead of just five. Besides that His post seem like town boatman. Illogical and overly flowery post with over confidence and arrogance that only town tfb has versus simp scum boatman that never really engaged in conversation deepiky enough.

×××

@damo can you explain why you scum read me? I have been one of the few people who was saying you were town and that the wagon on you was sus and scummy. Do you think scum Sabi would not have joined in and voted you for an easy miskill? I would love to hear it

×××

Anyway back to analyzing the major Discourse ™

Bona vs Boatman fight:

One line summary: scum lean vs town

Expanding: Bona, once again you have a tunneling problem that takes over a game thread. You have regressed from m73 and haven't shown any of scum hunting. All you have done is yelling about someone being scummy because eof how they respond to you. Tfb on the other hand is doing his trademark overly wordy and misses the point arguements. Anyway reading through this fight was exhausting. Bona do better.

Pyxxy vs Llama boy fight:

One line summary: null vs null

Expand: honestly this was a boring read. Pyxxy has regressed and his wall posts and arguments were not making sense at all. Lots of fluff without answering anything Llama was saying. Llama was also tunneling unnecessary. Anyway neither of this fight was giving town or scum signs just based off how weird and boring it was.

Jamiet vs Snowy

One line summary: town vs null

Expand: Jamie came out of the argument looking townie for asking snowy his reasoning for stuff. Snowy looks worse by being his usual evasive and unclear self. Not giving a direct answer is NAI for snowy.

×××

Things I have learned:

- Aaro has been weird since day one. Lots of weird oog excuses for not being around but pops up and says he is here but also doesn't say much or anything. All very cotton candy

- Celaph showed up and he's giving lots of townie vibes in his reading of the game

- kak has been good and his reads seem solid. Moving him from scummy to town-Null. He is 300% better d2 than d1

- these wall post (the irony I know) and unnecessary tunneling is exhausting to read.

- Maniac hasn't done one townie thing this game besides police font sizes yet people town read him??? What are people seeing that I'm not? Like damo said he was town because he stopped voting for damo?

- I townread damo but it's slowly slipping to null because his reasoning for stuff is not making sense and their is no numbers at all. Damo isn't playing his scum pairing games either.

On topic of scum pairing: what is everyone's top 3 different scum pairing reads so far?

[snowy801]

People usually D1 me? Guess I never noticed

[Jamiet99uk]

She was the one who cited awkward interactions and I asked her to give an example, which she couldn't.

She didn't cite "awkward interactions", she cited "awkward vibes". That is, she felt you were coming across as awkward in general. It was a gut read and she made that very clear. You then repeatedly demanded precise examples of specific interactions when that was never what she was saying.

Durga has flipped town and you need to accept that you were wrong about this.

She mentions awkward vibes once (1 time) but being awkward in interactions several times (including specifically citing me and pyxxy)

Well then clearly she did give you examples because you just cited at least one specific one.

Can we not go around in circles about this, please?

[snowy801]

Also may I point out that if pyxxy is scum he skipped on his sheep promise on aaro to vote damo instead