M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[Jamiet99uk]

Celaph said:
@Jamie
What were your opinions of Damo at EoD1?

Somewhere between null and a slight townlean. I didn't think he was a good wagon but, then, I was scumreading Durga at that point.

[pyxxy]

[my wall post]

1) if you no longer feel sus on damo how do you feel about aaro? What do you think EoD1 looked like and meant to you?

2) I don't think you need to worry too much about what "traditional scum hunting " is or isn't. Everyone has their own style and if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. What worked for you last game seemed like a quite good style. So I think DL is concern about you scum hunting in a traditional way is off base and kind of silly.

I do think that he has a point insofar as your style this game seems different from the prior one as you seems less invested and perhaps more aloof? I felt like you largely took D1 off and D2 I haven't seen much as I've felt the thread has kinda just been me talking to snowy and the bona REEEEEEEEing at me, whereas I was hoping to see more aggressive pushes and pointed questions. Who do you view as scummy given what you've seen so far? Who do you view as particularly towny?

3) Fair enough, I think you're too dismissive of the pressure you applied to others in addition to not dying to brainbombs scatter shot, but yeah. That's an interesting point you brought up. My question for the second half of part 3 is, huh? Are you saying snowy is unfairly going after DL like brain went after Blamp (that's what I recall you describing your view of brain's play as) and someone is next or am I horribly missing your point? Because if that's the point of the analogy, I don't see it.

As for the VCA, I would love to hear DL give an explanation for his vote behavior as I would like a little more detail to support his not liking the way the wagons formed point. I am mostly willing to accept his claim he didn't want a tie to be formed with a minute left given Maniac's action, but more on the damo wagon theory would be good.


4) Agreed it would be good to hear from Maniac and Damo there. And I do find your summary of why Bona is doing what he is doing amusing. There's probably some truth there.

1) I think aaro is legit work stressed so I'm null on aaro. Also I never quoted them D1, so I might just be missing information here.

I buy damo's theory that EOD D1 looked like TvT(vT). DL's post about the wagon's not moving was a good observation, even if I was snarky about it. I doubt that means scum did or didn't more; if scum wanted to start a new wagon, they would have coordinated it via daychat earlier.

What I'm trying to say is, it feels like scum were happy with all the EOD D1 wagons, and clearly DKing town!Durga was fine as well. Scum must have felt like their votes where in good, inconspicuous places. Maybe one was chosen to be a later switcher? That's speculation, no facts here. I think there's actually very little to be learned by DKing either aaro or damo.

2) I appreciate your answer and I await Llama's.

I think y'all hyped me too much in the God Thread and forgot how absent I was at the start of M73. I literally talked in-game about how I was watching how the game was played for a while.

tiers unordered
[Ed Note: I wrote this list before reading Celaph's list, fuck me I must be big time wrong then, I not better at scumleans than Celaph ]

townleans:
damo, snowy, aaro

nulls:
JJaamméééé, DeathLlama8, Kak, Sabi, celaph (I hear y'all townreading him, I don't disagree, I just don't have the experience to agree)

if I had to scumlean people:
bona, you (TFB), Maniac

I should probably put my money where my mouth is.
##VOTE Maniac

3) Nah I was trying to be coy but you can tend to drag the reality of people's subtext. I'll explain:

Refresher,
M73 brainbomb : M73 BusinessLamp :: M1021 snowy801 : M1021 DeathLlama8

brain was on me from D1 last game (M73) for post-facto reasons. He built a "case" by prodding me over time and feeding the rest of town the subconscious idea that I was scum so that he could reference it days later in more a legitimate light e.g. "I've been sussing pyxxy for days and he never responded". But it was always just brain's gut, never anything substantive, and he was wrong, btw.

Honestly I should maybe swap damo for snowy, but snowy felt more accurate to how brainbomb acted towards me on D1 through N2, and damo is doing more D3 onwards brainbomb. Throw them both in.

This is why I read them as townleans, btw. I see them acting the same was brainbomb did towards how I play the game (as town, because I'm town again folks ). I never OMGUS'd brain last game, because I felt like he was town despite his questions being in bad faith + no evidence + L + ratio.

I get the same vibes from snowy + damo. So I'm townleaning them.

BusinessLamp, on the other hand, I never felt the same town energy. When he called me out on screwing up quoting you (TFB), I literally thought in the game "Blamp is on me just to look like he's trying, so he's either scum scared about his image or lazy town scared about his image". Neither of which gave me a good impression of him. My mind only changed after his God Thread submission reveal (which turned out to be true).

DeathLlama8 gives me strong Blamp M73 vibes. Although to credit arrrrr Llam8y, he's trying + providing a much better case against me than Blamp or brain ever did. In my opinion.

4) there is no 4.

[pyxxy]

Pyxxy:
It’s rather unfortunate that Pyxxy was away at EoD, but I think the most notable thing is that he seemed content voting Damo who he initially voted to just generate conversation. That certainly comes off as someone who really didn’t care who died.

@pyxxy
Why didn’t you switch your vote off Damo? Did you develop a reason for voting him other than generating conversation?

@Celaph, you were probably writing while I wrote+posted this:

I also felt like damo was maybe OMGUS'ing me after my vote for him on D1. So I figured it was better to just let things cool off and come back in a while. Unfortunately the thread went dormant so I just looked like a tool for only +1s and no posts. Live and learn, I guess.

1) [...s]omething felt different about damo. Then again it's my second game ever and I really didn't get much time with damo in M73. Given more time and many more messages, I no longer feel sus on damo. I think I stated this earlier.

I would both agree and disagree with the statement that "I didn't care who died". I kept my vote on damo because I felt like it was the best vibe I had. I didn't have any real scumleans besides damo and even the damo one was mostly vibes.

I had AYCE hot pot scheduled for 5pm PT, right at EOD. I'm not being late for all-you-can-eat just to do EOD D1 in a forum mafia game. Only got 90 minutes max for eating, gotta make the most of it.

Durga was the person who recruited me to play forum mafia. I was looking forward to playing a game with her. So uh actually there was one person I cared about not dying D1, and y'all managed to fuck that up somehow. Serves me right for going out to dinner, I guess.

My last D1 post was at -00:27, I probably stuck around for a few minutes after that? And the Durga wave started moving at 00:13 with damo's vote?

I wish I had been around to tell y'all not to do that dumbass shit.

P.S.
Smart about the whole hiding online thing. I think you should keep doing that. I always thought yelling at people who were online but not posting was whack. What snowy + Jéméé did for me was fine, ofc, that was for just not posting at all.

You still lost me the bets though >.>

[pyxxy]

Pyxxy:
It’s rather unfortunate that Pyxxy was away at EoD, but I think the most notable thing is that he seemed content voting Damo who he initially voted to just generate conversation. That certainly comes off as someone who really didn’t care who died.

@pyxxy
Why didn’t you switch your vote off Damo? Did you develop a reason for voting him other than generating conversation?

Durga was the person who recruited me to play forum mafia. I was looking forward to playing a game with her. So uh actually there was one person I cared about not dying D1, and y'all managed to fuck that up somehow. Serves me right for going out to dinner, I guess.

My last D1 post was at -00:27, I probably stuck around for a few minutes after that? And the Durga wave started moving at 00:13 with damo's vote?

I wish I had been around to tell y'all not to do that dumbass shit.

....looks like I had some pent up feelings about this. Sorry that it got directed at you, Celaph. I'm gonna take a figurative walk.

[snowy801]

I hate this wallpost meta

[snowy801]

it's just 3 pages they said, it'll take moments to catch up they said

[snowy801]

Refresher,
M73 brainbomb : M73 BusinessLamp :: M1021 snowy801 : M1021 DeathLlama8

brain was on me from D1 last game (M73) for post-facto reasons. He built a "case" by prodding me over time and feeding the rest of town the subconscious idea that I was scum so that he could reference it days later in more a legitimate light e.g. "I've been sussing pyxxy for days and he never responded". But it was always just brain's gut, never anything substantive, and he was wrong, btw.

Honestly I should maybe swap damo for snowy, but snowy felt more accurate to how brainbomb acted towards me on D1 through N2, and damo is doing more D3 onwards brainbomb. Throw them both in.

This is why I read them as townleans, btw. I see them acting the same was brainbomb did towards how I play the game (as town, because I'm town again folks ). I never OMGUS'd brain last game, because I felt like he was town despite his questions being in bad faith + no evidence + L + ratio.

I'm sorry, what exactly am I being accused of here?

[celaph]

Hmmm, caught up and am still voting for Bona.

##vote rdr

Was this a joke?

Partially. I don't really have a problem for voting for Bona, but I figured he would call me cringe or some other devastating insult so I thought I should move my vote especially since my initial vote on him was a joke anyways.

My move to rdr was partially a joke (because he voted aaro) and partially not. I genuinely thought he had a questionable opening.

[celaph]

No. I tried to vote Aaro as a joke and just to avoid not voting like last game but my vote was invalid (not on purpose) and Celaph points this. Then I voted him as another joke.

And it really sucks having to explain jokes.

I missed that either of those were jokes.

So when you voted Rdr, you thought his vote on you was serious?

You have the timing wrong. I voted rdr before he voted me.

[celaph]

good day for vca i guess

This comment sounds like you were pretty sure whoever flipped wouldn't be scum.

In defense of DL, he was advocating that Durga was town and looking for new wagons rather consistently throughout the day.

[celaph]

So I switched to damo since I ranked them as my most likely to vote people.

That is a really unnatural way to write that line. Did you think that someone else was more likely to be scum than Damo? If so, who and why didn't you vote them? And if not, why didn't you just say that you found Damo the scummiest? It just sounds like your actions were based on consistency not on an active read.

[celaph]

don't have time for a full EOD reread but celaph doesn't look great based off of what I've seen, especially if aaro turns out to be scum - he explicitly votes damo "to give aaro a better cw" after saying this with a few hours before EOD

I'm wrestling with whether I want to kill aaro right now. Would hate to D1 flip town aaro. TFB, Maniac, Jamie, Damo, and Kak are all kills I'm also fine with.

But when the vote is 6-3-3 and he wants to move off damo, he goes for durga over aaro without providing much explanation for the shift? He mentions earlier that while he likes durga's contributions, he didn't like the tone of her earlier posts - but that's something he'd already known at the time of the quoted post

In general, I wasn't particularly confident on any scum read yesterday. I was mentally debating between aaro/damo and then damo/Durga. I voted Damo over aaro first because while I wasn't sure which one I found more scummy, I knew that I would much rather have a close and contested vote than a runaway wagon.

I think my vote on Durga and subsequent message are rather telling in why I voted Durga over Damo. It wasn't that I reevaluated Durga and found her to be scummier than I thought, but rather I re-evaluated Damo and found him to be slightly townier than I thought. Hence my comment that I was less confident in Damo and follow up and specifically why I was less confident in damo.

[celaph]

rdr posted subsequently to this and made no comment. Definite cause for hmmmm.

Why would I made such a statement at night? Explain me any town reason to do this now and I will happily do.

I'm afraid this post probably sealed rdr's fate.

What are you seeing in this that is a PR slip? I don't see it.

[celaph]

Maniac assuming Rdr got an item out, is weird.

That said, if Maniac is scum then I think it's rather likely that they didn't RB rdr and he realized it too late. I don't think that scum RBs rdr and then acts like they forgot that is an options.

[celaph]

In my first game, rdr was PR and was killed N1 iirc. I’m pretty sure Jamie and damo were scum that game (though I think Jamie was a sub?).

Rdr was VT M62. And while Jamie was technically a sub all he missed was like the first 11 hours of D1 so not a substantial loss.

[celaph]

boat man seemed very opportunistic when i was trying to kill durga, so i believe that makes him look significantly worse. would definitely vote him, but have to go for a bit now, won't move atm

How would you compare boatman's approach to Durga to your own? From the outside you both seemed rather comparable in voting and general attitude on the matter.

[snowy801]

Why would I made such a statement at night? Explain me any town reason to do this now and I will happily do.

I'm afraid this post probably sealed rdr's fate.

What are you seeing in this that is a PR slip? I don't see it.

rdr has a trademark statement that goes "I am 100% vanilla town™"
damo is insinuating that rdr's refusal to make this post revealed he was a PR, which is kind of silly if you ask me
rdr was probably killed because aaro is scum

[celaph]

how did people play mafia before peterbot

Using mobile data for this to inform you that my home Internet is down due to that my ISP DHCP server does not seem to respond to requests any longer. That means that the bot is down until they fix it. Will call them Sunday when they open...

A brief scan suggests that Sabi, TFB, Damo, and Maniac have yet to +1 this post. Highly likely we find more than 1 scum in this list. Current guess would be Maniac+Damo.

Only partly being sarcastic.

[celaph]

[Discussion of Damo self-pres]

What do you make of Damo self-pres voting aaro with over 2 hours left? Does that not strike you as early to be self-pres voting? Especially given his existing townread on aaro.

[snowy801]

how did people play mafia before peterbot

Using mobile data for this to inform you that my home Internet is down due to that my ISP DHCP server does not seem to respond to requests any longer. That means that the bot is down until they fix it. Will call them Sunday when they open...

A brief scan suggests that Sabi, TFB, Damo, and Maniac have yet to +1 this post. Highly likely we find more than 1 scum in this list. Current guess would be Maniac+Damo.

Only partly being sarcastic.

lmao